I had not seen that, thanks. Always encouraging when the professionals wind up with similar conclusions. Now that we are starting to get good data on natural and vaccine vs delta, i'm hoping to do a basic monte carlo simulation for the Houston area showing where we stand as far as reaching heard immunity. because my gut says that there is a real chance this is the last wave when you consider natural immunity as well.
Are we still going to ignore natural immunity?
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Last: 3 yr ago by Kvetch
Natural immunity doesn't sell, unfortunately. There's a reason that I was excited when I got confirmation I had the virus. Natural immunity.
Then I went out and got vaccinated b/c I figured it would double down in the event a variety arose and if still be protected. Show' nuf here we are! A blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
Then I went out and got vaccinated b/c I figured it would double down in the event a variety arose and if still be protected. Show' nuf here we are! A blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
Capitol Ag said:
Natural immunity doesn't sell, unfortunately. There's a reason that I was excited when I got confirmation I had the virus. Natural immunity.
Then I went out and got vaccinated b/c I figured it would double down in the event a variety arose and if still be protected. Show' nuf here we are! A blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
Yep, I've yet to set any good data on natural immunity.
Even if that were true, what about the fact that vaccinated people are still contracting and spreading Covid? Why would you only mandate the unvaccinated?KidDoc said:
The real problem is that natural immunity is wonky. It seems to have HIGHLY variable duration from patient to patient. So, as an employer, you can decide to require or monthly/quarterly/ ?? interval blood tests for immunity or vaccine.
That is if you decide to require anything at all.
aggierogue said:Even if that were true, what about the fact that vaccinated people are still contracting and spreading Covid? Why would you only mandate the unvaccinated?KidDoc said:
The real problem is that natural immunity is wonky. It seems to have HIGHLY variable duration from patient to patient. So, as an employer, you can decide to require or monthly/quarterly/ ?? interval blood tests for immunity or vaccine.
That is if you decide to require anything at all.
The vaccinated aren't costing him any money at the hospital.
t - cam said:Capitol Ag said:
Natural immunity doesn't sell, unfortunately. There's a reason that I was excited when I got confirmation I had the virus. Natural immunity.
Then I went out and got vaccinated b/c I figured it would double down in the event a variety arose and if still be protected. Show' nuf here we are! A blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
Yep, I've yet to set any good data on natural immunity.
Have you read this thread? At least 2 medical study preprints have been posted showing solid natural immunity data and that is the entire basis of this thread.
BlackGoldAg2011 said:t - cam said:Capitol Ag said:
Natural immunity doesn't sell, unfortunately. There's a reason that I was excited when I got confirmation I had the virus. Natural immunity.
Then I went out and got vaccinated b/c I figured it would double down in the event a variety arose and if still be protected. Show' nuf here we are! A blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
Yep, I've yet to set any good data on natural immunity.
Have you read this thread? At least 2 medical study preprints have been posted showing solid natural immunity data and that is the entire basis of this thread.
Yeah, maybe I need to do a deeper dive here. I generally ignore these Israel studies as I don't think they have a good control group in my opinion as the country has mostly whole heartedly embraced the vaccine.
BlackGoldAg2011 said:
I had not seen that, thanks. Always encouraging when the professionals wind up with similar conclusions. Now that we are starting to get good data on natural and vaccine vs delta, i'm hoping to do a basic monte carlo simulation for the Houston area showing where we stand as far as reaching heard immunity. because my gut says that there is a real chance this is the last wave when you consider natural immunity as well.
I'm not sure we're ever going to reach herd immunity. The vaccinated, and even some with natural antibodies, are still contracting Covid and spreading it.
While vaccination may help, it's not a silver bullet.
Quote:
Just get titers drawn on your wife.
And remember Rule 1.
We need it to stop overwhelming hospitals.
I think that's what we need to hope for and what I think is more realistic.
I think that's what we need to hope for and what I think is more realistic.
txaggie_08 said:BlackGoldAg2011 said:
I had not seen that, thanks. Always encouraging when the professionals wind up with similar conclusions. Now that we are starting to get good data on natural and vaccine vs delta, i'm hoping to do a basic monte carlo simulation for the Houston area showing where we stand as far as reaching heard immunity. because my gut says that there is a real chance this is the last wave when you consider natural immunity as well.
I'm not sure we're ever going to reach herd immunity. The vaccinated, and even some with natural antibodies, are still contracting Covid and spreading it.
While vaccination may help, it's not a silver bullet.
I tend to agree but maybe we can relieve the pressure on the hospitals.
I don't think it is at all likely that we will ever reach herd immunity. If the virus wasn't a zoonotic and if we had a long term vaccine for it, then there would be a chance. But besides bats, the virus has been found in other animals, including deer.txaggie_08 said:BlackGoldAg2011 said:
I had not seen that, thanks. Always encouraging when the professionals wind up with similar conclusions. Now that we are starting to get good data on natural and vaccine vs delta, i'm hoping to do a basic monte carlo simulation for the Houston area showing where we stand as far as reaching heard immunity. because my gut says that there is a real chance this is the last wave when you consider natural immunity as well.
I'm not sure we're ever going to reach herd immunity. The vaccinated, and even some with natural antibodies, are still contracting Covid and spreading it.
While vaccination may help, it's not a silver bullet.
This might be a good place for this video. Natural immunity is great, but natural + vaccine may be better.
That's what I want to know.
I have pfizer + presumably the delta variant. Does that give me superior immunity to either the vaccine or natural immunity on their own?
That's the study they need to be doing now.
I have pfizer + presumably the delta variant. Does that give me superior immunity to either the vaccine or natural immunity on their own?
That's the study they need to be doing now.
That video made me feel bionic. COVID and vaccinated.
That is exactly what the study in the OP looked at. It showed someone fully vaccinated was 6-13x (amount depends on how far back they counted past infections) more likely to have a breakthrough infection than a person who had recovered from covid was to have a reinfection. They then went on to find that someone who was vaccinated and recovered was half as likely to get it as someone who had natural immunity only.
Are y'all defining natural immunity as someone that recovered or someone that just has some sort of heightened immunity thanks to genetics?
Recovered from past covid infection. At least that's how I've been using the term
BlackGoldAg2011 said:
Recovered from past covid infection. At least that's how I've been using the term
Ok, think I've been having arguments then that I didn't fully understand. My assumption was that some people thought they had some sort of born in immunity.
www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-15-studies-that-indicate-natural-immunity-from-prior-infection-is-more-robust-than-the-covid-vaccines
Yes, the article is from The Blaze, which many may discount on its face. But the data is from multiple studies from around the world, and doesn't just consider antibodies when talking about immunity.
Yes, the article is from The Blaze, which many may discount on its face. But the data is from multiple studies from around the world, and doesn't just consider antibodies when talking about immunity.
Politicians need so show they are in control. They want to show that they can end the pandemic with shutdowns, masks and vaccines. Natural immunity does not fit in with the message they want to send.
Why is this even a question? The vaccines serve to simulate the immune response in the presence of the actual virus. If natural immunity doesn't protect you, how the hell would a vaccine that emulates the exact same immune response?
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
Kvetch said:
Why is this even a question? The vaccines serve to simulate the immune response in the presence of the actual virus. If natural immunity doesn't protect you, how the hell would a vaccine that emulates the exact same immune response?
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
But you have to risk serious infection to gain this extra immunity when likely the immunity gained from the poke will serve you just fine and not put you in much harm if you do get the sick.
SoupNazi2001 said:t - cam said:Kvetch said:
Why is this even a question? The vaccines serve to simulate the immune response in the presence of the actual virus. If natural immunity doesn't protect you, how the hell would a vaccine that emulates the exact same immune response?
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
But you have to risk serious infection to gain this extra immunity when likely the immunity gained from the poke will serve you just fine and not put you in much harm if you do get the sick.
Many people gained natural immunity prior to a vaccine being available so they didn't risk anything.
Exactly. So much wrong with that logic. That's the kind of logic that gets you worried about vaccinating kids, who are at statistically 0 risk of death. Get the vaccine if you're at risk. Leave everyone else alone. You've protected yourself.
t - cam said:Kvetch said:
Why is this even a question? The vaccines serve to simulate the immune response in the presence of the actual virus. If natural immunity doesn't protect you, how the hell would a vaccine that emulates the exact same immune response?
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
But you have to risk serious infection to gain this extra immunity when likely the immunity gained from the poke will serve you just fine and not put you in much harm if you do get the sick.
I don't think anyone here is advocating purposeful exposure and infection as a strategy to provide immunity. I think people are upset that those that are already immune via previous infection are being treated as pariahs for not vaccinating.
Salute The Marines said:t - cam said:Kvetch said:
Why is this even a question? The vaccines serve to simulate the immune response in the presence of the actual virus. If natural immunity doesn't protect you, how the hell would a vaccine that emulates the exact same immune response?
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
But you have to risk serious infection to gain this extra immunity when likely the immunity gained from the poke will serve you just fine and not put you in much harm if you do get the sick.
I don't think anyone here is advocating purposeful exposure and infection as a strategy to provide immunity. I think people are upset that those that are already immune via previous infection are being treated as pariahs for not vaccinating.
Yeah, I understand that point for sure.
Do we have data that show us how quickly we should be at heard immunity based on both the vaccination and recovered immunity? I realize we aren't kicking the virus but we should've serious illness decline at some point right?
I must wear my scarlet letter at the office, due to my vax status. It's very unfortunate. I feel blackballed! COVID positive February 2021.Salute The Marines said:t - cam said:Kvetch said:
Why is this even a question? The vaccines serve to simulate the immune response in the presence of the actual virus. If natural immunity doesn't protect you, how the hell would a vaccine that emulates the exact same immune response?
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
But you have to risk serious infection to gain this extra immunity when likely the immunity gained from the poke will serve you just fine and not put you in much harm if you do get the sick.
I don't think anyone here is advocating purposeful exposure and infection as a strategy to provide immunity. I think people are upset that those that are already immune via previous infection are being treated as pariahs for not vaccinating.
There are a lot of studies showing natural immunity wanes, just as vaccine immunity wanes. Yes of course you could just get reinfected, but as others have pointed out, our hospitals are at the breaking point, and while yes, vaccinated people can get sick and hospitalized, the bulk of patients in the ICUs were the ones "natural immunity" was supposed to work for.
All pandemics have their survivors...those who get infected and recover. That's great, but the big issue right now is keeping the hospital networks and their burned out staff from becoming overwhelmed. We are failing on that front.
Also any story about Covid, regardless of POV, that starts with THIS ENDS THE DEBATE should be thrown in the trash.
https://www.wbrc.com/2021/06/04/covid-19-natural-immunity-could-be-coming-an-end-soon/
https://scitechdaily.com/recovering-from-covid-19-doesnt-guarantee-antibodies-or-confer-immunity-to-re-infection/
https://www.thebharatexpressnews.com/dr-scott-gottlieb-says-people-with-covid-wont-be-immune-forever-should-get-vaccinated/
All pandemics have their survivors...those who get infected and recover. That's great, but the big issue right now is keeping the hospital networks and their burned out staff from becoming overwhelmed. We are failing on that front.
Also any story about Covid, regardless of POV, that starts with THIS ENDS THE DEBATE should be thrown in the trash.
https://www.wbrc.com/2021/06/04/covid-19-natural-immunity-could-be-coming-an-end-soon/
https://scitechdaily.com/recovering-from-covid-19-doesnt-guarantee-antibodies-or-confer-immunity-to-re-infection/
https://www.thebharatexpressnews.com/dr-scott-gottlieb-says-people-with-covid-wont-be-immune-forever-should-get-vaccinated/
t - cam said:Salute The Marines said:t - cam said:Kvetch said:
Why is this even a question? The vaccines serve to simulate the immune response in the presence of the actual virus. If natural immunity doesn't protect you, how the hell would a vaccine that emulates the exact same immune response?
My experience with natural immunity is that it works. I was exposed again a week and a half ago and I haven't had a single symptom. The goal is to prevent serious infection, not eradicate the virus. Pandora's box is open, and it ain't closing.
Will there be exceptions? Yes. But the level of unscientific insanity that this board has reached is incredible. Any time a new fear porn article comes out, the pearl clutching and "antivaxxer" bashing begins. Go outside. Live life.
But you have to risk serious infection to gain this extra immunity when likely the immunity gained from the poke will serve you just fine and not put you in much harm if you do get the sick.
I don't think anyone here is advocating purposeful exposure and infection as a strategy to provide immunity. I think people are upset that those that are already immune via previous infection are being treated as pariahs for not vaccinating.
Yeah, I understand that point for sure.
Do we have data that show us how quickly we should be at heard immunity based on both the vaccination and recovered immunity? I realize we aren't kicking the virus but we should've serious illness decline at some point right?
Serious illness has declined. Stop worrying about case counts. It's pretty simple.
FlyRod said:
There are a lot of studies showing natural immunity wanes, just as vaccine immunity wanes. Yes of course you could just get reinfected, but as others have pointed out, our hospitals are at the breaking point, and while yes, vaccinated people can get sick and hospitalized, the bulk of patients in the ICUs were the ones "natural immunity" was supposed to work for.
All pandemics have their survivors...those who get infected and recover. That's great, but the big issue right now is keeping the hospital networks and their burned out staff from becoming overwhelmed. We are failing on that front.
We've heard that BS for a year and a half and the hospitals have never once been overrun. Staffing issues and burnout are a different issue, but at the end of the day if you chose the job that's what you signed up for.
And show me the proof immunity wanes. Active antibodies are a terrible metrics for measuring that, but that's apparently the only thing people consider nowadays.
Proof?FlyRod said:
There are a lot of studies showing natural immunity wanes, just as vaccine immunity wanes. Yes of course you could just get reinfected, but as others have pointed out, our hospitals are at the breaking point, and while yes, vaccinated people can get sick and hospitalized, the bulk of patients in the ICUs were the ones "natural immunity" was supposed to work for.
All pandemics have their survivors...those who get infected and recover. That's great, but the big issue right now is keeping the hospital networks and their burned out staff from becoming overwhelmed. We are failing on that front.
Also any story about Covid, regardless of POV, that starts with THIS ENDS THE DEBATE should be thrown in the trash.
FlyRod said:
There are a lot of studies showing natural immunity wanes, just as vaccine immunity wanes. Yes of course you could just get reinfected, but as others have pointed out, our hospitals are at the breaking point, and while yes, vaccinated people can get sick and hospitalized, the bulk of patients in the ICUs were the ones "natural immunity" was supposed to work for.
All pandemics have their survivors...those who get infected and recover. That's great, but the big issue right now is keeping the hospital networks and their burned out staff from becoming overwhelmed. We are failing on that front.
Also any story about Covid, regardless of POV, that starts with THIS ENDS THE DEBATE should be thrown in the trash.
Show one
“A republic, if you can keep it”
AggieKatie2 said:
ETX is honestly starting to scare me a bit as someone who may be trigger happy.
AggieKatie2 said:
ETX is honestly starting to scare me a bit as someone who may be trigger happy.
The bulk is unvaccinated and no prior infection.FlyRod said:
There are a lot of studies showing natural immunity wanes, just as vaccine immunity wanes. Yes of course you could just get reinfected, but as others have pointed out, our hospitals are at the breaking point, and while yes, vaccinated people can get sick and hospitalized, the bulk of patients in the ICUs were the ones "natural immunity" was supposed to work for.
All pandemics have their survivors...those who get infected and recover. That's great, but the big issue right now is keeping the hospital networks and their burned out staff from becoming overwhelmed. We are failing on that front.
Also any story about Covid, regardless of POV, that starts with THIS ENDS THE DEBATE should be thrown in the trash.
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