The Ragonk Strikes Back said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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kevmiller said:

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Uhh.. not enough info.
To me it was rushed , we don't know the long term effects and I wasn't interested in being a lab rat for what seemed like an experimental vaccine

I could be 100% wrong and foolish in that way if thinking but that's why me and my family have not gotten it .

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This is the most well studied vaccine in the history of man-kind. That is not hyperbole. We have more high quality data on the safety and efficacy of the mRNA vaccines compared to any other vaccine in existence. We have been closely monitoring 10s of thousands of vaccinated individuals enrolled in these studies up to over a year out at this point with no evidence of significant long term effects. Nevertheless, it would be physiologically improbable for the vaccine to cause effects years after administration, as the, rare, serious issues associated with any type of vaccine is going to be in the first days to a few weeks after administration.

This vaccine was not rushed. It was heavily scrutinized, it went through all the appropriate channels, and has phenomenal experimental and real world data demonstrating both safety and efficacy. Do yourself, your family, and those y'all interact with a favor and get vaccinated.

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Hey doc, saw this video about the covid vaccine only being 42% effective? What are your thoughts, this doc seems kinda awkward but pretty sharp.

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I would like to see how they came up with that number, but we are reporting on "unpublished study", "preliminary data". Two big red flags that say to not get too strung out on these numbers. 42% effectiveness doesn't match with ~90% of Covid patients in hospitals are unvaccinated, so there seems to be some disconnect making it all that much more important to understand how they measured effectiveness.

That said, if we assume it is true, then we can assume Delta variant mutated around the vaccine. Lots of people getting COVID around the world means lots of opportunities for the virus to mutate. If it is option 2, we need to update the mRNA sequence for the Pfizer vaccine to better target Delta. It should be a relatively small change in the mRNA sequence and shouldn't require another year of clinical trials. See flu vaccine which is updated annually without year long clinical trials.

kevmiller said:

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cone said:

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you will get covid eventually

you can either get the vax and have at worst the flu or you can not and have a real shot at developing pneumonia and becoming hypoxic

that's the legit risk profile

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The sky is falling crowd is another reason I'm skeptical of the vaccine

I only know about 6-7 people who have had Covid... but the most severe symptoms were pretty much a runny nose and a headache for a couple days

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You are lucky that those you know have had mild cases.

In the month of August alone we had one employee pass away and another employee's daughter pass away. Both unvaccinated.

We still have about 25% of our employees who have not been vaccinated. I'm not going to force anyone to do it but I wish they would.

planoaggie123 said:

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I was just looking....i am shocked by the skew on Pfizer / Moderna vs Johnson & Johnson.

Like 300M doses vs 14M.

Is that due to the early issues with J&J or was there just always going to be less available?

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There are significant differences in the manufacturing process required for mRNA vaccine compared to adenovirus carrier vaccine.

The manufacturing process for mRNA vaccine is to synthesize the mRNA, purify the mRNA, and mix into vaccine. Mixing into the vaccine involves encapsulating the mRNA into lipid nanoparticles.

The manufacturing process for adenovirus carrier vaccine is to grow a cell culture, infect with the cells with the vaccine virus, grow a bunch of virus, isolate and purify the virus, and mix into vaccine.

The mRNA synthesis step and the lipid encapsulating step are complicated, but once the produces are worked out and verified, they should be highly repeatable and have short turn around time.

The benefit of the J&J vaccine (and the AZ vaccine) is that there is a lot of capacity for growing cell cultures and culturing viruses. The process is well understood, but there are some challenges to avoid contamination of the cell culture and risks that growing cells don't behave the way they should. Life is complicated. I expect it also takes longer to make up a batch.


The reason the FDA and others have pumped so much money into development of mRNA vaccine technologies is they can be rapidly designed, modified, and manufactured. Moderna designed their COVID vaccine within days of the virus sequence being published. They had completed animal studies and had manufactured a batch of vaccine for their phase 1 trials within a month.

mosdefn14 said:

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My wife is a nurse, and got it last week kicking and screaming because she had to to keep her job. I guess that makes me a medical type.

Small sample size and all, but within our circle of friends & family, only the ones who were first in line when the "shots" came out Q1 have had issues this year. The rest of us Neanderthals (including 94 y/o grandparents) either haven't caught it (go immune system), didn't know we caught it (we live in Texas, allergies cause sinus issues year-round), or had an easy go with it.

So, rather than ask why not, for me personally I ask why?
- Get it so you don't get sick. We know that's not the case.
- Then, get it so you don't spread it. Not too fast my friend.
- Get it so you can resume normal life. Wait, nevermind.
- Get it so you don't have a bad case. 2 fully "vaccinated" sub 50, healthy (clean living, triathlon types) in my office are currently in the hospital.

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I do not doubt what you have said but you do realize that is completely anecdotal data. You should not base your decision on that, the overall fact is that those that are vaccinated are significantly less likely to end up in the hospital or die if they have been vaccinated and by a huge margin. Your tiny sample size isn't proof but the millions of others out there are.

ham98 said:

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Vaccine makers have no liability for product harm. You can sue for damages if a car manufacturer has a design defect in a vehicle that you drive in which you are injured. If the vaccine highly contributes to your death in the future your family has no actionable tort against them.

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This is because the govt set up a special process for vaccine injury rather than subject individual vaccine makers to death by class action. There is a pool of money that is funded by the vaccine industry and a special court to adjudicate claims. No jury though, so no outsides awards because big company vs crying mother.

TulsAg said:

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"Get it so you don't have a bad case. 2 fully "vaccinated" sub 50, healthy (clean living, triathlon types) in my office are currently in the hospital." (Cited as a reason to not get the vaccine).

This is probably the worst "data point" cited by the anti-vax clan.

Of course you can find flyers on the outside of the bell curve. For every vaccine since the beginning of time, there will be examples of those for whom it didn't work, likely because of variances in their individual immune systems, fitness, or other factors.

But the data could not be more overwhelmingly clear that your odds of hospitalization or worse are orders of magnitude higher if you are unvaccinated. The hospitals are increasingly admitting more and more unvaccinated "sub 50, healthy (clean living, triathlon types)."

It is an increasingly unnecessary risk to expose yourself and your family to this virus without the protection - albeit not 100% - of the available vaccines.

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Totally agree, the people using anecdotal data of wha they have seen and extrapolating it to the entire population are clearly clueless about how these things work. The data is everywhere for the population as a whole and the unvaccinated are at significantly higher risk. Get it or don't but please base your decision on something sound and real not what you have seen so that is all there is to it.

These stories are all so tragic. Ignore the mask politics, just get the vaccine.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-anti-mask-freedom-rally-045722778.html

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"He's not doing good. It's not looking in our favor," she said. "His lungs are stiff due to the fibrosis. They called and said they've run out of options for him and asked if I would consent to a do not resuscitate. And it would be up to us when to stop treatments."

"My heart just can't. I can't imagine my life without him."

Caleb Wallace, a 30-year-old father of three, has been unconscious, ventilated and heavily sedated in the ICU at Shannon Medical Center in San Angelo since Aug. 8, the Standard-Times reported. His wife said on a GoFundMe page for household and medical bills that he was was intubated multiple times, had high fevers, infection and bleeding in his chest.

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When he first felt symptoms on July 26, his wife told the Standard-Times, he refused to get tested or seek medical care. He instead began treating himself with a cocktail of Vitamin C, zinc, aspirin and ivermectin. He was taken to the hospital on July 30.

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PJYoung said:

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These stories are all so tragic. Ignore the mask politics, just get the vaccine.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-anti-mask-freedom-rally-045722778.html

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"He's not doing good. It's not looking in our favor," she said. "His lungs are stiff due to the fibrosis. They called and said they've run out of options for him and asked if I would consent to a do not resuscitate. And it would be up to us when to stop treatments."

"My heart just can't. I can't imagine my life without him."

Caleb Wallace, a 30-year-old father of three, has been unconscious, ventilated and heavily sedated in the ICU at Shannon Medical Center in San Angelo since Aug. 8, the Standard-Times reported. His wife said on a GoFundMe page for household and medical bills that he was was intubated multiple times, had high fevers, infection and bleeding in his chest.

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When he first felt symptoms on July 26, his wife told the Standard-Times, he refused to get tested or seek medical care. He instead began treating himself with a cocktail of Vitamin C, zinc, aspirin and ivermectin. He was taken to the hospital on July 30.

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Agreed. Stop promoting mask usage as any kind of prevention of COVID and promote the vaccine. Continuing to promote mask usage like a religion causes division and causes people to not take the vaccine out of spite.

I don't speak for everyone, but I would damn sure rather people get the vaccine than ever have to think about a mask again. But lots of people consider vaccine encouragement to be "shaming" and swear they'll never do it. So, we have schools that can't fill multiple teacher vacancies, ICUs that are filling up which results in deaths for those who can't be transferred from smaller hospitals whether they have Covid or not, medical professionals at their emotional ends. If people won't get vaccinated, then the masks keep getting brought up. It absolutely sucks.

I agree, except that cloth/surgical masks have such a negligible effect that letting them be promoted in any way needs to be considered malpractice. Every public health official is basically saying "mask or vaccine" as though they were equal, when they're not. At all. And they're convincing stupid people that there's no need to get the scary vaccine when you can just mask up.

Like in the story a few posts up about the anti-mask advocate that's about to die of Covid. The article mentions how anti-mask he is half a dozen times, when the reason he's in the ICU is almost certainly because he didn't get vaccinated. Period. The mask he refused to wear would have done nothing to protect him, especially from Delta.

ETA - as to this - "But lots of people consider vaccine encouragement to be "shaming" and swear they'll never do it" - to hell with that. If someone considers it to be shaming, it's their problem. Far too many people in both sides of every debate seem to think that facts should care about their feelings. They don't.

Not sure if you've seen Rex Racer's thread but hes recovering and posted the following earlier.

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I am doing okay, good folks of TexAgs. Know that I love you all. For the most part my O2 levels are hanging in there. We are so blessed to have Caprock Hospital here. SUCH wonderful people!

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Do you regret not getting vaccinated?

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I am going to be completely honest. Yes. I wish I had been vaccinated. I am still against mandates, but looking at all evidence, getting vaccinated is the best move, in my opinion. Given the alternatives, I see no reason to purposely avoid vaccination. And I take no offense at being asked the question.

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I understand those who don't want to be told they have to get a vaccine. I also understand the calculus was a lot different 12 months ago when it didn't look like everyone would get exposed to this.

But the argument of "we don't know the long term effects" just seems odd to me.

Yes, we don't have long-term data on the American made vaccine that aims to protect us and what it will do to our bodies 5-10-15 years down the road.

We also don't have long-term data on the virus and what it will do to our bodies 5-10-15 years down the road.

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around why the latter is a better than the former?

SoupNazi2001 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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I understand those who don't want to be told they have to get a vaccine. I also understand the calculus was a lot different 12 months ago when it didn't look like everyone would get exposed to this.

But the argument of "we don't know the long term effects" just seems odd to me.

Yes, we don't have long-term data on the American made vaccine that aims to protect us and what it will do to our bodies 5-10-15 years down the road.

We also don't have long-term data on the virus and what it will do to our bodies 5-10-15 years down the road.

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around why the latter is a better than the former?

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For those that already had a mild case and recovered the effects of Covid are known. The vaccine effects are not known. Lots of excess heart attack and stroke deaths going on in the UK right now. Could be something could be nothing but I would rather wait.

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Except you don't know what the long term effects of having COVID are.

And you don't know that re-infection with variants can't/won't occur (as the # of outliers seems to be growing).

Again, I've got no problem with someone who wants to make their own personal choice but you've got the same idea of what the long-term impacts of covid exposure (or re-exposure) are as you do the long-term impacts of the vaccine. Choosing one over the other is simply a bad case of confirmation bias.

TheMasterplan said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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mosdefn14 said:

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My wife is a nurse, and got it last week kicking and screaming because she had to to keep her job. I guess that makes me a medical type.

Small sample size and all, but within our circle of friends & family, only the ones who were first in line when the "shots" came out Q1 have had issues this year. The rest of us Neanderthals (including 94 y/o grandparents) either haven't caught it (go immune system), didn't know we caught it (we live in Texas, allergies cause sinus issues year-round), or had an easy go with it.

So, rather than ask why not, for me personally I ask why?
- Get it so you don't get sick. We know that's not the case.
- Then, get it so you don't spread it. Not too fast my friend.
- Get it so you can resume normal life. Wait, nevermind.
- Get it so you don't have a bad case. 2 fully "vaccinated" sub 50, healthy (clean living, triathlon types) in my office are currently in the hospital.

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I do not doubt what you have said but you do realize that is completely anecdotal data. You should not base your decision on that, the overall fact is that those that are vaccinated are significantly less likely to end up in the hospital or die if they have been vaccinated and by a huge margin. Your tiny sample size isn't proof but the millions of others out there are.

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As long as those promoting the vax aren't using anecdotal evidence for those with bad cases of COVID we're good.

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I suppose that's true when you read stories like the one above on the 30 year old, so yeah that is anecdotal as well; however, it is not hard to look at hospitalization and death rates across the country and see that it is almost all unvaccinated. Something like 93% of hospitalizations and 99% of deaths.

Here is a good link that breaks that down.

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/

And in my job I can talk with doctors across the state and when I ask about the patient breakdown in their hospitals they have confirmed it is almost all unvaccinated people.

SoupNazi2001 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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I understand those who don't want to be told they have to get a vaccine. I also understand the calculus was a lot different 12 months ago when it didn't look like everyone would get exposed to this.

But the argument of "we don't know the long term effects" just seems odd to me.

Yes, we don't have long-term data on the American made vaccine that aims to protect us and what it will do to our bodies 5-10-15 years down the road.

We also don't have long-term data on the virus and what it will do to our bodies 5-10-15 years down the road.

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around why the latter is a better than the former?

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For those that already had a mild case and recovered the effects of Covid are known. The vaccine effects are not known. Lots of excess heart attack and stroke deaths going on in the UK right now. Could be something could be nothing but I would rather wait.

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But they are known..please take a moment and read this thread and clinical information posted by NotyetadoctorAg. https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3220648

If you are willing to take in legitimate information, it is laid out clearly.

Yup -- seems like it all has no long-term data on it because we haven't hit a long-term status yet.

So all of that being equal (unknown), would seem like going with the unknown long-term that has shown overwhelmingly to prevent ICU/death in the short-term.