with that said, give me your best arguments against masks. I might/maybe/perhaps be associated with a school district and one of a few that could have some influence shaping local masking policy. we arent looking at a mandate but likely encouraging it as strongly as we are able.

discounting the governor's ban on mask mandates an any legal considerations i'm trying to reconcile to my own satisfaction what the right thing to do for the most amount of folks.

other than anectodal evidence why should I discount the advice of every doctor I have asked? the AMA, CDC, etc.

1. I have to admit that the CDC can suck it and I totally get that some have lost credibility.
2. i get that the quesion doesnt appear neutral but I have been poking around and most of what i have found shows that community transmission is reduced with mask wearing.

i hear you. i think about what all elementary kids touch including boogers. take discipline most of them don't have.

heck, the argument by some has been that since the elementary aged kids can't get vaccianted that they should wear them and that's contrary to the policy we had last year which exempted grades 3 and below (I think it was 3rd grade).

trust me when I say I don't WANT masks even for the older grades but my kids said that the high school was packed with everyone back in person and hardly anyone was wearing masks the first couple of days. just seems like recipe for a bad outcome.

Aggie95 said:

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here's some evidence from Israel

Two months in to Israel’s reinstated mask mandate, cases are up 7970%, higher than last year’s summer peak, and rapidly approaching the all time high from January.

I do not understand how anyone can think masks work. It’s just a complete fantasy based on nothing. pic.twitter.com/R6THlOM7A8

— IM (@ianmSC) August 23, 2021

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Israel had a DOUBLE mask mandate? As someone who spent a month there in summer, it is like SA/San Angelo hot. What utter mystery.

https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/study-supports-widespread-use-better-masks-curb-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR3hQpgduDV5SQs-pu8-gHyfm86ihXAtZHdHvz5QbSGEiBaDa_JodILi0sw

Wondering why a person in a position to influence mask policy in a school district can't capitalize in a sentence? Are you sure you work in education?

Saw this article today on the masking of kids, and heard the guy on the radio. It is worth the read. My biggest criticism is that he does not squash the use of masks on adults.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html

Radio interview notes:
He had many great sources within the NIH and AAP that he used in the article. They were universal on their unwillingness to officially go on record for fear of being ostracized.

He highlighted how clear it was world wide that kids weren't an issue, how clear it was in the CDC study using Georgia data that masks weren't effective on children, and how there are a good number of respected experts in full agreement that masks are unnecessary on children (they refuse to talk publicly).

He mentioned that the CDC position is contrary to most of the developed world, including the WHO recommendations on child masking. Most developed countries (I think he said France) have no masking on in person schooling, and there has been no notable difference in case rates. The WHO recommends masking over 12 (the CDC is over 2 years old!), and even the WHO recommendation is based on nonexistent data.

He was dumbfounded and extremely concerned at the positions being taken. Basically explained it as a reluctance for the CDC to change course and admit it was wrong. Highlighted that the CDC has never suggested a mask as a potential precaution in an unknown environment, but rather has taken the position that they conclusively work to prevent student spread, which has put them in a very bad spot now that the data is out. The walk back will happen out of the headlines after the pandemic ends.

Also, some good contrarian literature.

This is a good summary of source articles, presented in an illustrative manner. The introductory video is two minutes, and I've attached the PDF. The guy is a dentist, so to the extent you want to discount his opinions because he is not credentialed, it is certainly appropriate.
https://www.freepeopleofthesouthwest.com/cdcvsevidence

Here is another good write up by a statistician asking questions. He gets into some of the meat of what the CDC cherry picked. It is certainly worth the read, as he also supplies extensive citations and questions the narrative.
https://www.city-journal.org/do-masks-work-a-review-of-the-evidence

The foreign equivalents to CDC don't agree with masking children.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/desantis-abbott-school-mask-foreign-countries

TxAg82 said:

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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e1.htm?

The CDCs own study showed no statistical significance of students wearing masks. Read the report and actually look at the data. This study is one that is being cited as evidence of the need for mask mandates. The title makes it sound like it supports masks in schools. The data does not support masking students.

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From the report:

COVID-19 incidence was 37% lower in schools that required teachers and staff members to use masks and 39% lower in schools that improved ventilation.

TxAg82 said:

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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e1.htm?

The CDCs own study showed no statistical significance of students wearing masks. Read the report and actually look at the data. This study is one that is being cited as evidence of the need for mask mandates. The title makes it sound like it supports masks in schools. The data does not support masking students.

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FYI, this write up concerns the absurdity of this study and what data was buried/shelved regarding children.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html

There is certainly an argument that masks did not account for the decrease, considering the number of mitigation strategies employed, but that was not broken down for fear of not getting the conclusion desired.

12thMan9 said:

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coupland boy said:

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with that said, give me your best arguments against masks. I might/maybe/perhaps be associated with a school district and one of a few that could have some influence shaping local masking policy. we arent looking at a mandate but likely encouraging it as strongly as we are able.

discounting the governor's ban on mask mandates an any legal considerations i'm trying to reconcile to my own satisfaction what the right thing to do for the most amount of folks.

other than anectodal evidence why should I discount the advice of every doctor I have asked? the AMA, CDC, etc.

1. I have to admit that the CDC can suck it and I totally get that some have lost credibility.
2. i get that the quesion doesnt appear neutral but I have been poking around and most of what i have found shows that community transmission is reduced with mask wearing.

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In 2020 a little over 100 kids died from Covid-19 IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

WTF is your, or the district, or whomever, point?

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Nice!

Aggie95 said:

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here's some evidence from Israel

Two months in to Israel’s reinstated mask mandate, cases are up 7970%, higher than last year’s summer peak, and rapidly approaching the all time high from January.

I do not understand how anyone can think masks work. It’s just a complete fantasy based on nothing. pic.twitter.com/R6THlOM7A8

— IM (@ianmSC) August 23, 2021

---

Assuming this is not missing any context - look at that June to Nov period. One would have to be a bit skeptical of that "Masks brought curve down"

Sr Industrial Hygienist that specializes in Occupational & Environmental Toxicology says they are worthless...

https://m.facebook.com/allison.bradleybudnick/posts/10159817876100680

First, you have to recognize that the local population elected you to make an informed decision. They didn't elect anyone on the CDC. They didn't elect doctors, or medical advisory boards. They elected you. It is easy to hide under the auspice that a Board member is not necessarily educated in the medical field and should simply yield to whatever the medical field says. That is not what a leader does. A leader gathers information, uses their own eyes and ears, assesses all pros and cons, and makes the best decision they can.

The medical field (for the most part) makes recommendations solely from a health standpoint. A school board has more issues than COVID to consider. What environment is best suited for learning? What environment is best suited for child development? What environment allows the least amount of disruption to the schedule? What environment keeps the most kids in the classroom? All of these things and more are considerations for a Board member.

In my town, the answer of masking is an easy one because the local population is overwhelmingly against masking, and even more against masking kids in the school. In other areas that may not be the case and I applaud you for putting thought into your decision. I will say that the CDC data shows no statistical relationship between masking and not masking in the general public or within schools. You have to understand statistics to understand what that means. No statistical relationship is contrary to "if it saves just one life". Statistically, if a life is saved it is a complete coincidence that a person was also wearing a mask. There isn't "almost statistical" or "nearly statistical". To be statistically significant the data must pass the threshold of confidence level. Without that confidence level, you can never make a statement that masks are what works and be scientifically correct. I am of the opinion that when last year's quarantine numbers are considered in conjunction with CDC masking data, and the threat level to the under 18 population, masks are a poor and unnecessary choice for schools. Any coincidental benefit is offset by numerous drawbacks.

Good luck with your decision. Keep working to formulate your opinion and then fight for it, whatever it may be.

Great article thanks for sharing.

This

waitwhat? said:

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I think you're posing the wrong question, OP. Your question implies that the default is to mandate masks and there needs to be justification not to mandate them.

But really the default is no mask mandate, and the question should be: what is the justification for mandating them in schools?

Are children at significant risk of complications that render masks necessary?
Have schools been shown to be significant spreading locations in the community?
Have masks been shown to be effective at preventing the spread of COVID-19?

If the answer to the above questions are no or inconclusive, then wouldn't mandating masks anyway just be security theatrics?

The way you phrase the question makes it seem that your mind is already made up, and that you plan to move away from default to mandating or "seriously suggesting" masks without justifying it.

In other words: rather than asking "why shouldn't I mandate masks", you should be asking "why should I mandate masks?"

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We don't nor do we anticipate having a mask mandate. I'm looking for reliable data and arguments as to why that is not only okay, and that everyone will hopefully be okay, but also the down sides of masking.

I don't have the luxury of dealing only with like-minded people on texags anonymously. I have to engage with opposing views and like to be prepared with as much info as i can muster. That said, I hope you get a lot of blue stars.

Thanks for everyone's graphs and links. Very helpful! Please keep them coming.

Also, I can assure you that some of the folks in our town are quite convinced the lack of masks will be detrimental. You can disagree with their default position bit it is what it is.

No doubt some of them are greatly motivated by opposition to our governor and I'm well aware of that too.

Letter to the School Board - Rational Ground

"Our colleague Emily Burns has crafted a masterful letter to her school board about kids and masks. It is chock-full of great details, charts, links to studies, and more. Hop on over to her website The Smiles Project and see all of the letters she's devised to help you in your fight against the lockdowns."

Masks, children and COVID-19 Published Studies



Good Luck, we lost the battle in Dallas ISD

Hey. Just read your comment. You get it. Due diligence and backup info matters.

Another thing about asking doctors....they are going to take the safe way out and not go out on a limb with a nuanced answer. So of course they're going to say "sure, wear a mask".

Not exactly the same but we've all called our doctors and told them exactly what our problem was such as recurring allergy attack "can I please get something prescribed to knock it out?". Sure, but they absolutely have to see you first which is oftentimes unnecessary but they just have to. Like I said not exactly the same.