CMP-00- said:

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I mean, full disclosure: I'm only a doctor - but I'm pretty certain that failing to vet the individual studies one chooses to include in one's meta-analysis, resulting in the inclusion of a completely fabricated study which single-handedly influences the conclusion of said meta-analysis is considered a "methodological" flaw. How many points do I get?

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You get points. That said, there is sufficient evidence, even excluding the questionable study, that early use of ivermectin is therapeutic in treating Covid. It's not a silver bullet but considering it's proven safety, appears to be a safe, nothing to lose option, for those who are recently infected.

Kinda new here in F84. Zobel - what's your background?

Zobel said:

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Not a doctor nor an expert. Just a person with a research background. Don't listen to me, listen to your doctor, listen to credible sources like good journal articles and well done studies.

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Should we listen to Anthony Fauci?

Brief context of TOGETHER trial and flccc statement

https://odysee.com/$/download/outpatients-defeating-the-delta-variant/a80ce0c78e86eb2e4a17ca07847dfb4104f24d01

Link to aug 18 weekly update, for those that don't want to immediately download video from link above https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Jakeyjake said:

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ea1060 said:

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Zobel said:

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Yes, it is a bad bet. Not because they're likely to find that if you take ivermectin you'll grow a third arm or something - millions and millions of doses have been taken with it for decades, we know the safety profile. It's a bad bet because it probably won't help. Again, every drug that ever makes it to any kind of human trial has shown promise. This drug has already been tried in multiple studies for covid, and the larger / better the study, the worse it performs. So that actually should make you more pessimistic. The fact that the strongest evidence in its favor was found to be fraudulent should start triggering alarm bells.

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over a vaccine that was rushed to the market, has proven to have negative side effects for many people, and even caused death? Plenty of scientists and doctors are questioning the safety of it, and it's looking like it is becoming less efficacy over time.

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See, this is the problem and exactly why I made the comparison. Yes, absolutely, it is a really bad bet.

All drugs have negative side effects for many people. All of them, even ivermectin. If you don't believe this, you need to start your analysis over from scratch.

If we're going to go with the number of experts on each side argument, I guarantee there are more doctors who will recommend the vaccine over forgoing the vaccine and taking ivermectin instead. But that's a really crappy argument, that's not how medical evidence works.

It's funny you talk about the efficacy over time - yes, when you go from original to delta it looks like the vaccines go from phenomenally, mind-blowingly effective (95%+) to normal vaccine effective (~50% like the annual flu) at preventing symptomatic illness. But it's still mind-blowingly effective at preventing severe disease (90%+). And we have a HUGE amount of data that shows this, beyond any doubt, in actual use, in multiple countries, with hundreds of millions of doses administered.

If you don't think the vaccines work, if that evidence isn't good enough for you, you definitely should not be taking ivermectin based on the evidence we have today that it works.

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for a virus that over 99 percent of people, as you stated, recover from without any treatment at all?

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If it's not serious, why are you posting impassioned pleas about this immense need for therapeutics? It's either a serious disease, in which case vaccination is the obvious way forward - or it's trivial, in which case the hand wringing over an outpatient therapeutic is just noise.

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I'm not sure why you don't understand why a large percentage of the population would have reservations about the choice of treating the illness versus with medications showing efficacy over taking the vaccine.

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There are as many reasons as there are people. Social media exacerbates this, because there are as many experts available for confirmation bias as there are positions, and we know that social media exists to engage you, not to inform you. It exists to drive clicks, and if confirmation bias loops drive clicks, that's what you get.

In general I think the hesitancy is a combination of general mistrust of government, the grand tradition of American anti-intellectualism, and an unwitting championing of antivaxxer arguments that most people would have (rightly) rejected out of hand just years ago.

The only fix for these is good information, presented clearly, from credible sources.

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I still have frequent dizzy spells and forearm pain 4 months after taking the Pfizer vaccine. Others are reporting the same symptoms. If I could do it all over again, I would have skipped the vaccine and just treated my long haul covid symptoms with ivermectin. The only reason I got the vaccine was because I heard it helped some long haulers get rid of their symptoms.

Now I have to treat my long haul Covid AND long haul Vaccine symptoms with Ivermectin.

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Not to be mean but this sounds like a "you problem." Take some personal responsibility for yourself and your choices. If you are old, fat, diabetic, then the side effects are your own fault.

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Lol wtf are you talking about?? Im a healthy mid 30's male, in shape, exercise, eat healthy, no underlying health issues.

Jakeyjake said:

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Hardly any prescribe this. It's a horse dewormer and agencies see warning against its use for covid.

Mississippi poison control calls rise as anti-vaxxers take livestock dewormers to treat and prevent COVID-19

https://www.insider.com/mississippi-anti-vaxxers-take-livestock-dewormers-to-prevent-covid-2021

The FDA is urging people to stop taking horse and cow deworming medication to treat or prevent COVID-19

https://www.insider.com/mississippi-anti-vaxxers-take-livestock-dewormers-to-prevent-covid-2021-8

Don't poison yourself with invermectin folks.

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It worked for me and countless others on this board. I will continue to take it.

By the way I found Ivermectin for cheap on healthypets.com Its a lot more expensive on amazon.

I posted this on f16 as well but I think it's worth sharing here too.

I think this video is really important because it shows the need for nuance and avoiding binary thinking. I learned a lot from his perspective on ivermectin as well as the great contribution of the FLCCC early in the pandemic with championing the use of steroids and blood thinners. I think his observations about the interaction between people's fears of the vaccines, and the desire for a proven drug become a risky either-or decision.

I don't normally watch long-format interviews much less post them. Take some time, I think this is worth it.

My son just got Covid last Friday. I gave him Ivermectim that day. Sunday he had no fever and all other symptoms reduced. By Tuesday he was good enough to go back to school but we waited one more day to help him rest.

Also did the vitamins C and D3 and zinc twice a day. Tylenol and Ibuprofen.

Anyway, everyone can handle things they way they like with their families. I just wanted to report personnel positive experience.

The only thing worse than taking horse pills would be taking unregulated **** from Amazon. I wouldnt consume anything I buy from Amazon

He was going to get better quickly with or without the horse medicine. Most people do.

LB41Diamond said:

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My son just got Covid last Friday. I gave him Ivermectim that day. Sunday he had no fever and all other symptoms reduced. By Tuesday he was good enough to go back to school but we waited one more day to help him rest

Also did the vitamins C and D3 and zinc twice a day. Tylenol and Ibuprofen.

Anyway, everyone can handle things they way they like with their families. I just wanted to report personnel positive experience.

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Sounds like my daughter, Monday evening fever. Tuesday fever. Wed. about mid day fever broke. Thursday she was "fine". Had what I would call between strep and flu in terms of severity and then it just exited stage left.

No ivermectin.. only Tylenol to break the fever. She has always taken vitamins. She is in super good shape: select soccer year round and does swim in the summer.

Nobody else in the house came down with it. I'm surprised by this part. Wife and I are vaxxed, oldest daughter is vaxxed. My other 2 kiddos are not vaxxed.

lead said:

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Kinda new here in F84. Zobel - what's your background?

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Zobel has claimed in f16 that he works as an engineer designing/working in the turbine manufacturing industry, for one of the 'big 4' in that world.

Just fyi.