Pfizer vaccine only 42% effective against Delta?

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SBISA Victim
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2:03p, 8/12/21
AG
Yet the message is no booster shot unless you are immunocompromised. All indications are that Pfizer is developing a booster that better targets Delta. Why are they still saying we don't need one yet?.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-42-infection-delta-preprint
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Carolin_Gallego
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2:08p, 8/12/21
That's some bad news, if true.
We believe progress is made through MORE discussion, not LESS, and we believe that to be true even if the topics are uncomfortable and we occasionally disagree with one another. - TexAgs
The name-calling technique making false associations is a child's game. The propagandist who uses this technique hopes that the audience will reject a person and their argument on this false basis.
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Zobel
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In reply to SBISA Victim • 2:38p, 8/12/21
AG
One interesting thing is that they're measuring infection, not symptomatic illness.

What's also interesting is that the drop in protection against infection doesn't correlate well with a drop in protection from severe disease.

They also didn't check for protection vs time from vaccination, so it may be that immunity against infection wanes, but immunity vs severe disease does not.
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bay fan
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In reply to SBISA Victim • 2:45p, 8/12/21
S
Because the booster to address delta doesn't yet exist. This information will constantly change as science adapts to the twists and turns of the virus.
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Skillet Shot
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2:50p, 8/12/21
Nm
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GuatemalanAg
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2:58p, 8/12/21
AG
All COVID-19 vaccines are designed to only prevent hospitalization if infected
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P.U.T.U
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3:02p, 8/12/21
AG
Seems by the time they come up with a delta booster it will have already run its course
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KidDoc
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In reply to SBISA Victim • 3:04p, 8/12/21
AG
WarAGle said:
Yet the message is no booster shot unless you are immunocompromised. All indications are that Pfizer is developing a booster that better targets Delta. Why are they still saying we don't need one yet?.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-42-infection-delta-preprint
There is no evidence that a booster will help with Delta variant unless that booster is a reformulated mRNA map for the variant spike protein.

I haven't read anything that a delta booster is coming any time soon.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Gordo14
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In reply to KidDoc • 3:16p, 8/12/21
KidDoc said:
WarAGle said:
Yet the message is no booster shot unless you are immunocompromised. All indications are that Pfizer is developing a booster that better targets Delta. Why are they still saying we don't need one yet?.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-42-infection-delta-preprint
There is no evidence that a booster will help with Delta variant unless that booster is a reformulated mRNA map for the variant spike protein.

I haven't read anything that a delta booster is coming any time soon.


If people get a booster, they should be given a Moderna booster IMO.
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Drip99
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In reply to KidDoc • 3:19p, 8/12/21
AG
KidDoc said:
WarAGle said:
Yet the message is no booster shot unless you are immunocompromised. All indications are that Pfizer is developing a booster that better targets Delta. Why are they still saying we don't need one yet?.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-42-infection-delta-preprint
There is no evidence that a booster will help with Delta variant unless that booster is a reformulated mRNA map for the variant spike protein.

I haven't read anything that a delta booster is coming any time soon.


Do you believe there is any correlation with with time past since vaccination? Is someone that was fully vaccinated with Pfizer 6 months ago more likely to experience symptomatic infection than someone vaxxed a month ago?
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98Ag99Grad
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3:30p, 8/12/21
AG
J&J looking good according to this study from South Africa https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/science/johnson-delta-vaccine-booster.html

As of now, no booster being recommended for it. I got the single shot back April.
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Charpie
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 3:36p, 8/12/21
AG
wrong thread
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aggierogue
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In reply to GuatemalanAg • 7:14p, 8/12/21
AG
GuatemalanAg said:
All COVID-19 vaccines are designed to only prevent hospitalization if infected


Lol. Not what we were told when vaccines hit the market.
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Zobel
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In reply to aggierogue • 7:15p, 8/12/21
AG
Yeah, that's not true.

Primary efficacy measurements were protection from symptomatic illness and protection from severe covid. Dunno why people get confused about this so frequently (in both directions).
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aggierogue
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In reply to Zobel • 7:17p, 8/12/21
AG
Zobel said:
Yeah, that's not true.

Primary efficacy measurements were protection from symptomatic illness and protection from severe covid. Dunno why people get confused about this so frequently (in both directions).


Because it was not the narrative. Everyone I knew who got the vaccine early assumed they were safe from transmission.
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cone
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In reply to Zobel • 7:17p, 8/12/21
AG
but it was like 95% for the former

so the Pfizer has lost about half its protection or more since January

it's basically flu shot effective now for a mild case
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cone
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In reply to aggierogue • 7:18p, 8/12/21
AG
the worry early on with regard to vaccine was you might have the bug not know and spread it because the vaccines were so good as eliminating even mild cases
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Zobel
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In reply to aggierogue • 7:20p, 8/12/21
AG
I hate that word "narrative".

I remember people on this site ridiculing the idea of wearing masks after be in vaccinated when the cdc etc said you might still have an asymptomatic infection and be able to infect others. People who thought it protected them from infection weren't listening or were simply mistaken. The fda and the drug trials did not test for that.
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GeographyAg
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7:22p, 8/12/21
AG
My 80+ year old parents, and my husband, and myself all understood that the vaccine wasn't a forcefield that would keep the virus away from us. We all understood that it, like the flu shot and all of the other vaccinations we've taken, will help us fight the infection. That's the way vaccines work.

Everyone we know that has gotten a "breakthrough" infection has had a very mild case.

Two unvaccinated people we know are currently in ICU, and a third friend died last week, also unvaccinated.

We've recently sat next to people (unmasked, of course) who turned up C+ a few days later and not gotten it yet, but we expect to get it sooner rather than later, and will be very glad to be ahead of the game with cells that know how to fight it off already.
If I’m posting, it’s actually Mrs GeographyAg.
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Zobel
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In reply to cone • 7:22p, 8/12/21
AG
Against delta, yes.

I'm no expert but I'd guess the reason that you can get infected by delta but the vaccine keeps you out of the ditch is probably because of different parts of the immune system. Antibodies may be able to be overwhelmed by delta, but cellular immunity gained from the vaccine is able to help recover quickly.
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cone
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In reply to Zobel • 7:26p, 8/12/21
AG
well this bug is going to mutate into perpetuity

so yes delta
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Zobel
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In reply to cone • 7:31p, 8/12/21
AG
Ok, but the next mutation may make it bind less efficiently. Or make it much less dangerous.

Beta apparently had a mutation that made it even more prone to vaccine escape, but it wasn't ultimately a big deal because it didn't replicate as well.

So it's important I think to say - efficacy vs what compared with what. In this case efficacy vs no vaccine vs delta.

It may be the case that the immunity wanes. So that would be against anything after x time. We don't know. Stuff matters. Science is hard.
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cone
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7:33p, 8/12/21
AG
we'll just be on 6 month boosters for the next decade
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Zobel
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In reply to cone • 7:34p, 8/12/21
AG
I don't think that's a given. If cellular memory makes you have 90%+ protection from severe disease forever or for a really long time - and it might - there's not much cause for a booster.
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cone
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In reply to Zobel • 7:54p, 8/12/21
AG
are we really going to chance that?

I don't want to. I want my shots.
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KidDoc
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In reply to cone • 8:45p, 8/12/21
AG
cone said:
are we really going to chance that?

I don't want to. I want my shots.


This question is why non emergency vaccines take 5+ years to get through FDA. It takes a lot of time and patients to establish duration of immunity and optimal dosing schedule. In recent history Meningitis started as a single dose at age 11 and, over years of post market analysis, it was found to have waning immunity after 5 years so now there is a booster.

Same story with acellular pertussis, varicella. Many of these need boosters years apart. Only time will tell the tale with the COVID vaccines but I'm optimistic regular boosters will not be needed unless there is a mutation that necessitates a vaccine modification.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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cavscout96
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In reply to KidDoc • 9:04p, 8/12/21
AG
KidDoc said:
cone said:
are we really going to chance that?

I don't want to. I want my shots.


This question is why non emergency vaccines take 5+ years to get through FDA. It takes a lot of time and patients to establish duration of immunity and optimal dosing schedule. In recent history Meningitis started as a single dose at age 11 and, over years of post market analysis, it was found to have waning immunity after 5 years so now there is a booster.

Same story with acellular pertussis, varicella. Many of these need boosters years apart. Only time will tell the tale with the COVID vaccines but I'm optimistic regular boosters will not be needed unless there is a mutation that necessitates a vaccine modification.


Hey KD.... What is your position on healthy teens and the VAX? No health issues. Good BMI.

Get it or not?

Has Delta changed the game for that demographic?

Interested to hear your thoughts.
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fightingfarmer09
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 9:21p, 8/12/21
98Ag99Grad said:
J&J looking good according to this study from South Africa https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/science/johnson-delta-vaccine-booster.html

As of now, no booster being recommended for it. I got the single shot back April.


Criminal that J&J is ignored when discussing vaccination options.
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KidDoc
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In reply to cavscout96 • 9:26p, 8/12/21
AG
cavscout96 said:
KidDoc said:
cone said:
are we really going to chance that?

I don't want to. I want my shots.


This question is why non emergency vaccines take 5+ years to get through FDA. It takes a lot of time and patients to establish duration of immunity and optimal dosing schedule. In recent history Meningitis started as a single dose at age 11 and, over years of post market analysis, it was found to have waning immunity after 5 years so now there is a booster.

Same story with acellular pertussis, varicella. Many of these need boosters years apart. Only time will tell the tale with the COVID vaccines but I'm optimistic regular boosters will not be needed unless there is a mutation that necessitates a vaccine modification.


Hey KD.... What is your position on healthy teens and the VAX? No health issues. Good BMI.

Get it or not?

Has Delta changed the game for that demographic?

Interested to hear your thoughts.


Wait for more data. Delta spreading even if you are vaccinated actually decreases the medical urgency to vaccinate healthy teens to prevent community spread. I do advise my teen patients with any risk factors, including BMI>95% for age, that vaccine is worth the risk.

Europe is not advising to vaccinate healthy teens at this time. CDC recs we're based on pre delta data which showed substantial community protection with vaccine that unfortunately has not held up to the delta mutation.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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98Ag99Grad
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In reply to fightingfarmer09 • 7:11a, 8/13/21
AG
fightingfarmer09 said:
98Ag99Grad said:
J&J looking good according to this study from South Africa https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/science/johnson-delta-vaccine-booster.html

As of now, no booster being recommended for it. I got the single shot back April.


Criminal that J&J is ignored when discussing vaccination options.


Agree. The blood clot thing freaked people out.
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Charpie
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In reply to fightingfarmer09 • 7:27a, 8/13/21
AG
I saw a report this morning that showed that the J&J may not need a booster.
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cavscout96
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In reply to KidDoc • 7:57a, 8/13/21
AG
KidDoc said:
cavscout96 said:
KidDoc said:
cone said:
are we really going to chance that?

I don't want to. I want my shots.


This question is why non emergency vaccines take 5+ years to get through FDA. It takes a lot of time and patients to establish duration of immunity and optimal dosing schedule. In recent history Meningitis started as a single dose at age 11 and, over years of post market analysis, it was found to have waning immunity after 5 years so now there is a booster.

Same story with acellular pertussis, varicella. Many of these need boosters years apart. Only time will tell the tale with the COVID vaccines but I'm optimistic regular boosters will not be needed unless there is a mutation that necessitates a vaccine modification.


Hey KD.... What is your position on healthy teens and the VAX? No health issues. Good BMI.

Get it or not?

Has Delta changed the game for that demographic?

Interested to hear your thoughts.


Wait for more data. Delta spreading even if you are vaccinated actually decreases the medical urgency to vaccinate healthy teens to prevent community spread. I do advise my teen patients with any risk factors, including BMI>95% for age, that vaccine is worth the risk.

Europe is not advising to vaccinate healthy teens at this time. CDC recs we're based on pre delta data which showed substantial community protection with vaccine that unfortunately has not held up to the delta mutation.


Thank you!
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Capitol Ag
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8:08a, 8/13/21
AG
And take all these studies with a grain of salt. There will be other studies showing lower percentages and othrs showing higher percentages.


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CDub06
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8:24a, 8/13/21
AG
Seems like the vaccine is pretty effective for breakthrough cases.

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/
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TarponChaser
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In reply to CDub06 • 10:39a, 8/13/21
CDub06 said:
Seems like the vaccine is pretty effective for breakthrough cases.

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/

Old data. And the CDC stopped tracking breakthrough cases which did not result in hospitalization so there's no standardized tracking I'm aware of.

I recognize the vaccines cannot keep you from getting it but they'll almost certainly prevent a bad case in most people. However, that's not how it was sold at all.

This is a pandemic because of schi++y communication from the "authorities."
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