Kearney McRaven said:

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What others products would you buy and use with the understanding that the producer has zero liability or accountability for the safety of their product.

Zero consumer protection is offered, and you must consent to fully understanding such prior to being allowed to purchase and use said product.

A car, a meal, a drink?

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while the removal of civil liability from a manufacturer is rightfully concerning, this is not the whole story of what happens under a PREP Act declaration, and the rest makes the bolded statement above false. One of the other things that happens is that a Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) fund is established that, assuming it is funded by congress (this one was, twice), is entirely for handling injuries that may arise from the emergency response countermeasure (the vaccine for this discussion). This is not entirely dissimilar from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) and special "vaccine court" that currently handles the vast majority of claims against approved vaccines. The main difference is the VICP program allows a denied ruling to be appealed to higher courts, where as the CICP program only allows administrative appeals.

So while limitations of liability to a manufacturer should in general, always be a cause for hesitation and further investigation, the narrative that this is some unprecedented move to remove all customary consumer protections in order to push an untested treatment on millions of people while ensuring they have no recourse, is wildly exaggerated, to the point of nearly being outright false.

larry culpepper said:

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Beat40 said:

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larry culpepper said:

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Forum Troll said:

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larry culpepper said:

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I agree. I am anxiously awaiting FDA approval because I think that will make a meaningful difference.

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The vaccine refusal goalposts will just be moved. Maybe a few get it due to FDA approval, but it won't be noticeable imo.

Hopefully you are right and I am wrong.

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I have been very pessimistic but one reason for optimism is I truly do not believe that half of the country is anti-vax. They are just the most vocal. There is a significant portion of the country that just never got the vaccine, either out of apathy or ignorance on how to get it. Now those numbers are increasing due to the delta spike. This is anecdotal but my brother as well as some friends I know have recently gotten the first dose. They were never against the vaccine, i guess they just put it off for whatever reason and now they are getting it.

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Here's what I don't like about calling people selfish for not getting the vaccine. The narrative is that it's one party who is refusing to get it. The reality is there are multiple parties not getting it.

In reality, there is a group of people who are not getting the vaccine because they don't trust the government with healthcare because of very real, bad historical dealings with the government and healthcare. That is a very tough uphill battle, and I don't blame them for being skeptical.

My takeaway in all of this is the vaccine works - I got it more for my Dad than I did myself, I hope others do get it to keep themselves safe, but I'm not going to degrade them for not getting it because some people have some legitimate reasons for not getting it, where we think they are legitimate or not.

This public shaming of people is seriously the dumbest messaging from leaders - it makes people dig in more than anything else.

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You make good points. And yes there are large demographics of people who havent gotten vaccinated out of a justified distrust of the government. These are the minority groups people often refer to since so much attention is given to the political right.

But the right wing of American politics is given a lot of attention here because those views are dominant among posters on Texags. And I'm sorry, but I do see their views as selfish. They dont seem to grasp the idea that to defeat covid we have to work together and do things not just for ourselves but for others. Either that or they scoff at it and call you soft for believing that. Like you said, you got vaccinated more so for your parents than for yourself. I am the same. Getting vaccinated is more that just an individual decision, it's a compassionate decision and is the least a person can do to help stop the spread.

I mean, just take a look over at f16 at a given time. It's nonstop anger over anything related to covid. There was a thread last week of posters raising hell over A&M's covid policy of requiring students to be tested. They see it as a disgusting infringement of freedom, and they cannot grasp the idea (or they scoff at the idea) that universities need to stay informed on their covid numbers so they can take appropriate measures to stop the spread of the virus. None of that matters to those people. It's all about me, me, me, me, me. If we spread the virus, that's our right. It's pure selfishness, and sadly many of them have been that way since covid first broke out.

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Sorry, I am completely willing to risk you getting Covid by me not wearing a mask.

Ranger222 said:

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Spudman said:

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Ranger222 said:

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Here is the road map for everyone --

It is expected in September that the vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) will become approved by the FDA.

Also in September, the vaccination age will also be extended to include more children, potentially everyone 5 and older.

At that time, you're going to see vaccine requirements all over the place. You may not want to believe it, but it will happen. Jobs, schools, colleges, etc. That will push the vaccination rate to where it needs (and should be).

Once some time has passed that will allow children and any adult hold-outs to be vaccinated (2-3 months) to receive both doses of the vaccine, then many of the mitigation requirements (masks, social distancing) will be lifted. Being conservative, by January 2022.

Like I said its all about vaccination rate. They wanted to lift restrictions once vaccination rates reached a certain % (70-80), but it never got there. We failed. Instead we lifted anyway due to low infection and hospitalization rates (as we should have). The delta variant and new wave of infections changed the game. Now we are back to vaccination rate and it will now be forced. That's the reality.

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And that percentage of the population with natural immunity for which the vaccine is not only unnecessary but potentially harmful, what say you about that group?

I have the antibodies. Why in the hell should if be forced to get the vaccine??

I continue to remain frustrated that this relatively considerable segment of the population routinely (and seemingly purposefully) gets ignored.

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If you have had COVID, you still need the vaccine. This has been covered many times and I have posted on this very forum before scientific literature that shows that is the case. It was known pre-COVID with how the body's immune system works. This is not new.

In your body's first encounter with a pathogen, an immune response is mounted. However, that immune response is fairly lackluster and is not honed. Upon the body's second encounter with a pathogen, your body starts selecting for the best antibodies and other immune cells to use against the pathogen for future encounters. Log fold higher antibodies are produced as a response. Your body is now ready and prepared to encounter that pathogen multiple more times.



This is why there are two doses of the vaccine. Its in that second exposure that really gets the body and body's natural immune system locked in to fighting that specific pathogen going forward. There are several published studies out there that show people with prior exposure to COVID have a weaker antibody response (titers and neutralization) compared to those with both vaccine doses. People that have had confirmed COVID before still need to get the vaccine to get a booster for their immune system (a theoretical second dose). In line with this, data shows that the 2nd dose of vaccine for these individuals doesn't do much.

The vaccine for prior COVID individuals is not unnecessary and is not harmful.

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And this is where I think there is so much confusion. After reading your post, I could trust your information and make the decision to get one of the two shots to bolster my immune system.

However, I have the luxury of knowing some very, very intelligent and extremely respected physicians in general health, cardiology, a pulmonologist and an immunologist - they ALL tell me to not take the vaccine as it's unnecessary now that I have had it.

Their input is that I'm 4-5 times more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine.

"There is no personal choice. There's only public choice."

How very communist, comrade.

Again the simple questions:
if the vaccine works than why are the vaccinated worried about the unvaccinated?
Why take an experimental vax from a maker who has no liability for a virus with a survival rate of 99.9?
Why do the so called experts still have no recommendation for prevention or early treatment when the facts show obese, low vit D, low vit C, are at greater risk?
Why are countries who have Vax rates over 85% still getting covid if they work?
Why arent we passing out Ivermectin like candy on halloween like other countries have successfully done?
Why 18 months in and billions of dollars and no real trials for preventions/treatments in this country?
Why isnt the medical industry fighting to do autopsies on any possible adverse vac deaths?
Why arent they even collecting data properly? Ie if getting vaxed are u pregnant, had it before? Really had it or just tested positive for it, etc.
The list goes on and so does the BS.....