Dead Horse: Ivermectin - how *would* this work?

3,076 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Zobel
Dacoldest
How long do you want to ignore this user?
How/why exactly would a medicine for parasites help COVID-19 symptoms? Mechanically how could this medicine intervene physiologically?

I'm agnostic here. Hard science indicates that it doesn't work so far. Plenty of anecdotes that it helps. I simply don't understand it enough.

Sorry for another thread, but the other one is getting hard to read and to have my question answered there. TIA.
KlinkerAg11
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The horse wouldn't be dead if you gave it ivermectin.

Sorry couldn't help myself, I hope you get the answers you're looking for.
Nasreddin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Dunno. You can take a look at these doctors and their results.

http://sskc.mk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/FLCCC-Alliance-MATH-plus-Protocol-v8-v7.pdf

The interesting thing is that EVERY article that says Ivermectin is unsafe only talks about improper dosage and poisoning. Not a single one discusses why it is dangerous otherwise.
ORAggieFan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This one is baffling to me. I feel I have a pretty good idea on reality from all the reading I do. I can separate CDC guidance from other science. I can see what works, what we can control, what we can't. I can't get my head around this one as it seems there are competent doctors on both sides. It's as if it shouldn't work, but it may. And even if it doesn't, isn't causing harm.
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ivermectin is a miracle drug that works for several different diseases. It also has in vitro (test tube) antiviral properties against something like twenty viruses.

Unfortunately none of these in vitro antiviral effects have ever translated into clinical results. If the larger studies currently ongoing give some kind of definitive answer to the negative, this would make it something like 0/20 as a clinical antiviral.
Dacoldest
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thanks, didn't know it has anti-viral properties.

aggierogue
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I would like to know more about this as well. Are there any doctors on this board prescribing it to their patients and brave enough to admit it?
JFABNRGR
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
just about everything you need to know here about ivermectin.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Skillet Shot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The current theory is that it somehow binds up the spike protein and renders it less cytotoxic. There havent been enough studies into the biological mechanism on how it works. Several doctors began prescribing it after it was successful in a lab trial with a cell culture. This is typically a low bar but doctors began prescribing it because it has relatively no side effects. May dove have witnessed great results and are pushing it for that reason.
terradactylexpress
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Frontline doctors is the witch lady from Katy right? I'm going to go ahead and discredit anything you post from now on
TarponChaser
How long do you want to ignore this user?
terradactylexpress said:

Frontline doctors is the witch lady from Katy right? I'm going to go ahead and discredit anything you post from now on

Nope.

Pretty sure they're different groups.
HotardAg07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53579773
TarponChaser
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HotardAg07 said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53579773

I know who you're referring to but show me where she's affiliated with the FLCCC Alliance?

https://covid19criticalcare.com/about/the-flccc-physicians/

It's two separate and distinct organizations. This is the one with the witch lady

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/
terradactylexpress
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Very similar names which is how I got confused, so far I haven't been able to see a link but I also haven't compared the members of each group so who knows
redfish24
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Here's an about-as-frontline-as-you-can-get doctor talking about Ivermectin and censorship. He's got all the credentials in the world. This is not some fringe guy.



Also on podcast.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/covid-ivermectin-crime-century-darkhorse-podcast-pierre/id1471581521?i=1000523859023
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Expert testimony means next to nothing. There are experts on every side of every issue. Actual data, from trials, is all that matters.
redfish24
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Here you go:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

That study was authored by Dr. Kory, the expert I speak of. Guy with the glasses on the left in the YouTube video.

Conclusion:
Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.

PS- Hope you never sit on a jury. We award billions in damages in this country, as well as decide who goes to prison for life and who dies, based on expert testimony.
PJYoung
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Zobel said:

Expert testimony means next to nothing. There are experts on every side of every issue. Actual data, from trials, is all that matters.

There is no clinical trial that says this drug works for covid. It's like 0 for 20 so far.

It is fascinating how it's become so favored among certain politically leaning folks despite all scientific data to the contrary.
PJYoung
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
redfish24 said:

PS- Hope you never sit on a jury. We award billions in damages in this country, as well as decide who goes to prison for life and who dies, based on expert testimony.
You just have to figure out which expert to believe.

That was his point. Both sides have their experts.
PJYoung
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
redfish24 said:

Here you go:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

That study was authored by Dr. Kory, the expert I speak of. Guy with the glasses on the left in the YouTube video.

Conclusion:
Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.

PS- Hope you never sit on a jury. We award billions in damages in this country, as well as decide who goes to prison for life and who dies, based on expert testimony.
Quote:

The editors of Frontiers in Pharmacology have taken down an article about the use of the antiparasitic drug ivermectin in COVID-19 patients. The paper, which was written by members of an organization called the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), had been provisionally accepted and posted in abstract form by the journal in January, but was ultimately rejected this Monday (March 1). The editors determined that it contained unsubstantiated claims and violated the journal's editorial policies.

By the end of last week, the abstract had been viewed more than 85,000 times, according to snapshots available on the internet archive.

Quote:

After being contacted by The Scientist, the journal posted a statement from Frontiers's chief executive editor, Frederick Fenter, saying that "Frontiers takes no position on the efficacy of ivermectin as a treatment of patients with COVID-19, however, we do take a very firm stance against unbalanced or unsupported scientific conclusions."

During review of the article in what the journal refers to as "the provisional acceptance phase," Fenter says in the statement, members of Frontiers's research integrity team identified "a series of strong, unsupported claims based on studies with insufficient statistical significance, and at times, without the use of control groups."


https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/frontiers-removes-controversial-ivermectin-paper-pre-publication-68505
redfish24
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
PJYoung said:

Zobel said:

Expert testimony means next to nothing. There are experts on every side of every issue. Actual data, from trials, is all that matters.

There is no clinical trial that says this drug works for covid. It's like 0 for 20 so far.
Here you go:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

That study was authored by Dr. Kory, the expert I speak of. Guy with the glasses on the left in the YouTube video.

Conclusion:
Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.
PJYoung
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
redfish24 said:

PJYoung said:

Zobel said:

Expert testimony means next to nothing. There are experts on every side of every issue. Actual data, from trials, is all that matters.

There is no clinical trial that says this drug works for covid. It's like 0 for 20 so far.
Here you go:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

That study was authored by Dr. Kory, the expert I speak of. Guy with the glasses on the left in the YouTube video.

Conclusion:
Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.

That's not a clinical trial.
Zobel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That meta-analysis includes Elgazzar's now-retracted study. It was retracted for fraudulent data and plagiarism. Not only did it include it, it was the largest randomized controlled trial in the paper. Most of the meta-analyses performed which find a benefit do so on the basis of this study alone.

Other studies were generally small, open label, or observational studies.

When you perform a similar analysis using only randomized controlled trials - that is to say, when subject it to a higher quality study - the benefit vanishes.

We may allow expert testimony as admissible evidence in jury trials, but we do not accept it as a standard of evidence for drug approvals in this country.


Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.