It does seem like a lot more personal covid stories are from those working from home or locked down. Maybe a lack of sunlight, a lot of alcohol, sugar, and fat contributed. And those who didn't work from home would probably be less likely to get tested for any minor covid sign as that would jeopardize their job more than those working from home.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Ogre09 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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agsalaska said:

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endless amounts of evidence that the vaccines do a great job keeping the symptoms mild and people out of the hospital.

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I'm not a scientist or a math guy.

How would we measure this theory?

In my mind the concept is too nebulous to measure.

Sort of like when a politician says they 'saved or created X number of jobs.'

How do we know this to be true?

The question is:

How do we measure how severe an individual's symptoms would have been had they not had the vaccine?

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That's pretty obvious from the rest of your post

It's embarrassing how mathematically and scientifically illiterate our country is. You don't need an MD or PhD to understand this.

Let's look at everyone who dies from Covid (the numbers aren't perfect, but they don't have to be to be statistically significant). Were they vaccinated, yes or no?

Let's look at everyone who is hospitalized with Covid. Were they vaccinated, yes or no?

Let's look at the total population. What percent are vaccinated.

If 50% of everyone is vaccinated, and 95% of people who are hospitalized with Covid are unvaccinated, and 99% of people who die from Covid are unvaccinated, then the vaccine makes a huge difference in outcomes.

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I get it.

We can measure the difference between deaths of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons. That's a no brainer.

How can we collect and analyze evidence to support the theory that "the vaccines do a great job keeping the symptoms mild and people out of the hospital."

Compared to what?

This still seems like a nebulous concept when vaccinated people are coming down with Covid.

How do we determine whether the vaccine reduced the severity of symptoms and kept people out of the hospital when ~99% of people who get Covid are not hospitalized and do not die from Covid?

This seems like an impossible question to answer with any degree of accuracy.

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If you define serious cases as "requiring treatmeyin a hospital" it's just as simple and straightforward. What percent of people hospitwith Covid are vaccinated, and how does that compare to the total population.

If you want to look at "moderate" cases where people are needing prescription meds and feel like complete **** for a couple weeks vs. "mild" cases where symptoms are more of a nuisance or non-existent, it gets more difficult because the data is not being aggregated.

This isn't that hard:

How many people per capita from the vaccinated population are hospitalized due to COVID?
How many people per capita from the unvaccinated population are hospitalized due to COVID?

The number is of unvaccinated people requiring vaccination due to COVID is at least 20 times higher, so the vaccines are at least 95% effective at preventing hospitalization.

They did do blind, randomized trials to test these questions before the vaccines were ever approved. That means they set up two groups of equal size, demographic, etc. and give them both shots, half a vaccine and half a placebo. Yet, people participating in the trial do not know which group they are in. They compare the results over the course of months of how both groups fare. That's the best way to test the effectiveness.

The mRNA vaccines were not just 90%+ effective at preventing symptomatic infection, they were even MORE effective at preventing hospitalization and virtually 100% effective in preventing death.

However, now you can see in the population data how effective vaccines are. When you see that 97% or whatever of people hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated, despite 50% or so of the population being vaccinated, that should tell you something.

Most of my friends and I had covid last summer or fall. None that I know of had been reinfected.

One of my coworkers got the vaccine earlier this year. She recently got a very bad case of covid, talked to her doctor, and received ivermectin IV as she has bad asthma. Felt way better a day later. She's now waiting to be over enough symptoms to get back to the office.

Seems we should have put way more stock in treating the disease early vs. vaccinating, and we'd be done with this crap with natural immunity.

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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Hope your family gets to feeling better!

Was you daughter that already had Covid in January symptomatic or asymptomatic? Was she test confirmed?

Not doubting you, just want clarification. A lot of the reinfection cases I have read about usually involve an asymptomatic case (likely false positive) and then a symptomatic infection.

Good luck!

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She was test confirmed and out of work for over 2 weeks. Loss of taste for over 6 months.

Tested all 5 of us and she was the only postive.


This time around all 5 tested positive and she is doing much better and is actually up and moving after only day 4. Definitely seems like this variation of COVID is not has strong as the one she had in January.

HumpitPuryear said:

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Badace52 said:

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That's true to an extent, but once again the limiting factor is not that there are no Covid specific beds available. The beds exist. The Hospitals don't have the staff to man the Covid wards. One of the hospitals in Waco (Providence) is about to open a whole floor for Covid patients once they have the staff to care for the patients. They still need people.

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I can imagine hospitals are having the same problem hiring low-skill support staff just like other businesses. I can see where staffing is a limitation. But that's a staffing problem not a "covid is spiking through the roof" problem. The fact that laypeople like myself have to learn how ICU covid admitting works in order to sift through the hyperbole is part of the covid fear problem. Your original post above alludes to a covid breakout not a staffing shortage. You're not necessarily being dishonest but you aren't really giving a complete picture of the problem either. It's propagating what is oft referred to here as "fear porn".

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A hospital nurse is not a "low skill support staff" position. Demand for nurses right now, especially ICU nurses, is exceeding supply. The reason demand is so high is because Covid is spiking and also local full-time staff nurses are becoming burned out and quitting. The difference between a hospital and something like a factory or a tech company is that patients keep coming in and needing help regardless of staffing availability and only under limited circumstances are we allowed to turn people away. Right now the staffing issues are being driven by the increased demand for services due to the Covid virus.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Ogre09 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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agsalaska said:

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endless amounts of evidence that the vaccines do a great job keeping the symptoms mild and people out of the hospital.

---

I'm not a scientist or a math guy.

How would we measure this theory?

In my mind the concept is too nebulous to measure.

Sort of like when a politician says they 'saved or created X number of jobs.'

How do we know this to be true?

The question is:

How do we measure how severe an individual's symptoms would have been had they not had the vaccine?

---

That's pretty obvious from the rest of your post

It's embarrassing how mathematically and scientifically illiterate our country is. You don't need an MD or PhD to understand this.

Let's look at everyone who dies from Covid (the numbers aren't perfect, but they don't have to be to be statistically significant). Were they vaccinated, yes or no?

Let's look at everyone who is hospitalized with Covid. Were they vaccinated, yes or no?

Let's look at the total population. What percent are vaccinated.

If 50% of everyone is vaccinated, and 95% of people who are hospitalized with Covid are unvaccinated, and 99% of people who die from Covid are unvaccinated, then the vaccine makes a huge difference in outcomes.

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Turns out even a blind hog scratches out a nut every now and then, don't it?

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Oops