KlinkerAg11 said:
The uncoupling of deaths and infections needs to trigger a change in Covid policy.
I'm not sure we are there yet, but I know we will be very close if not there after this summer wave.
My COVID n=1 story
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Last: 3 yr ago by Jbob04
coolerguy12 said:Quote:
The OP is proof that vaccines protect you from serious illness
But if I were to post a story about someone getting better after taking invermectim all I would hear is "aNEcDoTAl" and "CoRrELatION DoES nOt EquAL cAUsaTIOn"
Try to at least be consistent when you pretend to follow the science.
Because the studies are unclear on ivermectim. The doctors on here talked about it. There's not some giant vaccine conspiracy to eliminate therapies.
Science is frustratingly slow and when 99% of covid outcomes are fine you will have several therapies that appear to work but make no difference in strict double blinded studies.
Cases are up, but deaths are not. To me, this tells me the variant is either less deadly than it was last year, or it's hitting a younger population who is better able to handle it. And if I had to guess, it would be a combination of the two.larry culpepper said:Of course life is full of risks. But we also do things to minimize risk like wearing seatbelts. I am in my early 30s and healthy. I think I had asymptomatic covid last year because I know I was exposed multiple times. I still got vaccinated so i would be less likely to spread it, and contribute to herd immunity. I think most people know the athletes have very little risk of serious illness.aTm2004 said:
No, the best way to get over this is for everyone to accept that life is full of risks and COVID is not going away. We need to learn to live with it and go about our lives like we were living in 2019. There is no need to continue to test athletes who are of little risk. Out of all of the athletes who tested positive last season, how many died or ended up in the hospital? Most of them probably would never have known they had it had it not been from the mandatory tests.Wellllllllllll... you may not like this but the unvaccinated do bear blame here. Had everyone gotten vaccinated when they became publicly available we wouldnt be where we are now. Now ICUs are filling up again and this is pretty much becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated considering they are the only ones getting seriously sick and dying now.Quote:
You continuing to try to place blame on unvaccinated people is only further fueling the flames for the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated divide that is growing. Unvaccinated people are not your enemy nor are they willfully trying to harm/kill you or others. Just because people don't make the same decisions you do doesn't mean they're bad people. You're only blaming them because they're the easy target for the lazy.
I would have a live and let live attitude but all of their reasons for not getting vaccinated are pretty much anti-vax BS not rooted in reality. They say covid is no big deal but the vaccines are dangerous. Just totally backwards logic. And then we have people like Tucker Carlson who have gotten vaccinated but is persuading his audience of millions to distrust the scientists and not get vaccinated.... for ratings. How can we not be irritated by that?
I'm not worried covid will kill or even hurt me. The OP is proof that vaccines protect you from serious illness. But yes I am bothered by the fact that the delta variant has become a huge problem. And the high numbers in states with large unvaccinated populations like Florida and Arkansas prove what we've been saying all along.
It seems you want a world where there are no cases and no deaths. Well, that world does not exist and it will never exist, so you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable if COVID is a concern with you. At this point, this thing is 100000% political and it's not even in question.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-deaths-daily
Also, have you even paid attention to the people telling you to be scare of COVID not being scared of COVID themselves? Hell, just this past week, DC's mayor had a lavish birthday party for herself, Lightfoot was a Lollapalooza, and word has come out about Obama's planned celebrity filled 60th birthday party at his estate in Martha's Vineyard where they're estimating over 500 guests. All of it...maskless. Well, maybe not for the 200 servants...they'll be covered in masks to remind them who they serve. They're not scared of it. They're only using it to control people.
And I know you're not watching Tucker because he's mentioned several times that people should get the vaccine. What he has an issue with is 1) how those who are vaccinated were still being forced to wear masks (back before the CDC made it's first change it just backtracked on), 2) how they're wanting to force people who have had COVID and young children (who are at little risk from or spreading COVID) to get the vaccine, and 3) the government mandating people get it via vaccine passports.
Oh, in the link provided, you'll also find total deaths. Filter by "Deaths/1M Pop" and tell me where you find Arkansas, Florida, and Texas. Listening to the media, they should all be at the top...mainly because they're those backwards Trump votin' red states! But now, they're 15, 26, and 25th in the entire country. The Top 4 are heavy blue strongholds.
*edit for the Messiah's birthday celebration
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
Just live your life. You are vaccinated. You are good to go.
Do you get annoyed at the number of Type 2 diabetes diagnosis each year? There are about 1.5M new cases each year. Does it weight on you daily? Do you beg people that are overweight or eating unhealthy to change their ways?
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/statistics-about-diabetes.
Average daily deaths with diabetes and 2021 covid are pretty consistent (342 per day vs 285 per day)
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/
larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
If this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," shouldn't we see deaths increase as cases increase, considering breakthrough cases are rare?
Quote:
As of July 26, 2021, more than 163 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19.
During the same time, CDC received reports from 49 U.S. states and territories of 6,587 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.
*1,598 (26%) of 6,239 hospitalizations reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.
309 (24%) of 1,263 fatal cases reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
While the number of vaccinated getting breakthrough covid and dying is fairly low the number of those instances is not 0.
Per the CDC, as of today, there have been 1,263 people die of covid after being fully vaccinated. Now, to be fair that's somewhere south of 1% of the 163'ish million people vaccinated. However, death occurs in less than 1% the cases in the unvaccinated too.
PJYoung said:coolerguy12 said:Quote:
The OP is proof that vaccines protect you from serious illness
But if I were to post a story about someone getting better after taking invermectim all I would hear is "aNEcDoTAl" and "CoRrELatION DoES nOt EquAL cAUsaTIOn"
Try to at least be consistent when you pretend to follow the science.
Because the studies are unclear on ivermectim. The doctors on here talked about it. There's not some giant vaccine conspiracy to eliminate therapies.
Science is frustratingly slow and when 99% of covid outcomes are fine you will have several therapies that appear to work but make no difference in strict double blinded studies.
I'm aware of that but Larry used one anecdotal story from the OP to confirm his biases just like people do with invermectim. I agree with the assertion that the vaccine leads to milder outcomes, but one story of a mild case proves nothing and it's ridiculous for Larry to say it does. Otherwise a single mild case of delta in an unvaxed could "prove" delta isn't as dangerous.
TarponChaser said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
While the number of vaccinated getting breakthrough covid and dying is fairly low the number of those instances is not 0.
Per the CDC, as of today, there have been 1,263 people die of covid after being fully vaccinated. Now, to be fair that's somewhere south of 1% of the 163'ish million people vaccinated. However, death occurs in less than 1% the cases in the unvaccinated too.
Why did you go to the trouble to look up the numbers, and then completely butcher their meaning?
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
planoaggie123 said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
Just live your life. You are vaccinated. You are good to go.
Do you get annoyed at the number of Type 2 diabetes diagnosis each year? There are about 1.5M new cases each year. Does it weight on you daily? Do you beg people that are overweight or eating unhealthy to change their ways?
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/statistics-about-diabetes.
Average daily deaths with diabetes and 2021 covid are pretty consistent (342 per day vs 285 per day)
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/
Yeah, but my company never had to close a plant because too many people got diabetes.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
"If everyone was vaccinated this wouldn't be an issue"
Feel like this argument is circular. You are saying that the reason this person who had the injection got covid is because other people choose not to get injected. But wouldn't it make sense if you believe the injection would keep more people from getting the virus that it wouldn't matter if an injected person was around people that are not?
You cannot have it both ways. The injection either works or it doesn't.
Feel like this argument is circular. You are saying that the reason this person who had the injection got covid is because other people choose not to get injected. But wouldn't it make sense if you believe the injection would keep more people from getting the virus that it wouldn't matter if an injected person was around people that are not?
You cannot have it both ways. The injection either works or it doesn't.
Again this make zero sense.
If "those two" getting injected would have kept you daughter from contracting covid, why didn't the fact that she was injected prevent her from getting it?
Hope she has a mild case and recovers quickly btw.
If "those two" getting injected would have kept you daughter from contracting covid, why didn't the fact that she was injected prevent her from getting it?
Hope she has a mild case and recovers quickly btw.
Very few things are binary. Vaccination is not one of them. No vaccine is 100% effective.
These vaccines work about as well as most others do. Very similar to something like measles, for example.
These vaccines work about as well as most others do. Very similar to something like measles, for example.
"Similar viral loads, less symptomatic and still substantially smaller percentage of those infected."
Of course you have data to support this claim?
Of course you have data to support this claim?
Absolutely none
94chem said:planoaggie123 said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
Just live your life. You are vaccinated. You are good to go.
Do you get annoyed at the number of Type 2 diabetes diagnosis each year? There are about 1.5M new cases each year. Does it weight on you daily? Do you beg people that are overweight or eating unhealthy to change their ways?
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/statistics-about-diabetes.
Average daily deaths with diabetes and 2021 covid are pretty consistent (342 per day vs 285 per day)
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/
Yeah, but my company never had to close a plant because too many people got diabetes.
There was no reason to close it for covid either.
Not the point I was making.
My comment was referring to the duality of her argument
My comment was referring to the duality of her argument
I can think of a couple that were pretty close.
Smallpox, polio, MMR.
The covid injection doesn't compare to those.
Smallpox, polio, MMR.
The covid injection doesn't compare to those.
TarponChaser said:94chem said:planoaggie123 said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
Just live your life. You are vaccinated. You are good to go.
Do you get annoyed at the number of Type 2 diabetes diagnosis each year? There are about 1.5M new cases each year. Does it weight on you daily? Do you beg people that are overweight or eating unhealthy to change their ways?
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/statistics-about-diabetes.
Average daily deaths with diabetes and 2021 covid are pretty consistent (342 per day vs 285 per day)
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/
Yeah, but my company never had to close a plant because too many people got diabetes.
There was no reason to close it for covid either.
Ewww. I guess. I mean, if you wanna go back to Upton Sinclair's America. But I kind of like the fact that most places don't force sick people to show up for work.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
"somewhere south of 1%" is one way to put it.TarponChaser said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
While the number of vaccinated getting breakthrough covid and dying is fairly low the number of those instances is not 0.
Per the CDC, as of today, there have been 1,263 people die of covid after being fully vaccinated. Now, to be fair that's somewhere south of 1% of the 163'ish million people vaccinated. However, death occurs in less than 1% the cases in the unvaccinated too.
Another would .0008%.
rafer69 said:
I can think of a couple that were pretty close.
Smallpox, polio, MMR.
The covid injection doesn't compare to those.
You should look up how many injections are required to get 95% immunity to polio. The mRNA vaccines compare very similarly to many of the vaccines in our current schedule. Most vaccines are not one and done to get lifetime sterilizing immunity.
For the record the smallpox vaccine is 95% efficacy, and MMR breaks down after two doses, 97% against measles, 88% against mumps, 97% against rubella.
If people treated polio, measles, and smallpox the way they're treating covid we would still be having outbreaks in the US.
94chem said:planoaggie123 said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
Just live your life. You are vaccinated. You are good to go.
Do you get annoyed at the number of Type 2 diabetes diagnosis each year? There are about 1.5M new cases each year. Does it weight on you daily? Do you beg people that are overweight or eating unhealthy to change their ways?
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/statistics-about-diabetes.
Average daily deaths with diabetes and 2021 covid are pretty consistent (342 per day vs 285 per day)
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/
Yeah, but my company never had to close a plant because too many people got diabetes.
I would think any reasonable company / plant would handle a rush of COVID like they would the flu. Every year we have flu/cold that hits companies. People get sick. Sure, maybe a few extra via COVID but, since the vaccine has been out, I have yet to hear of "whole-plant" closures. How many people work in your plant and how many got COVID all at the same time to require shut-down? Was that pre-vaccine or post-vaccine?
We have a vaccine. It works. If you have co-workers who refuse to get the vaccine yet they are taking weeks off for being sick, that is between them and your employer and will work itself out quickly.
If by "plant" you're referring to one of the refineries around town...COVID shouldn't be the main concern.94chem said:planoaggie123 said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
Just live your life. You are vaccinated. You are good to go.
Do you get annoyed at the number of Type 2 diabetes diagnosis each year? There are about 1.5M new cases each year. Does it weight on you daily? Do you beg people that are overweight or eating unhealthy to change their ways?
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/statistics-about-diabetes.
Average daily deaths with diabetes and 2021 covid are pretty consistent (342 per day vs 285 per day)
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/
Yeah, but my company never had to close a plant because too many people got diabetes.
She was one of the unfortunate ones to get it after being vaccinated. Her case has been mild but may not have been if she had not been vaccinated. My gripe is now she is out of work for 10 days and they are very busy at work. FWIW, I've never heard anyone say I sure am glad I got Covid instead of the shot. I've heard plenty of people say they are glad they got the shot.rafer69 said:
Again this make zero sense.
If "those two" getting injected would have kept you daughter from contracting covid, why didn't the fact that she was injected prevent her from getting it?
Hope she has a mild case and recovers quickly btw.
farmrag said:She was one of the unfortunate ones to get it after being vaccinated. Her case has been mild but may not have been if she had not been vaccinated. My gripe is now she is out of work for 10 days and they are very busy at work. FWIW, I've never heard anyone say I sure am glad I got Covid instead of the shot. I've heard plenty of people say they are glad they got the shot.rafer69 said:
Again this make zero sense.
If "those two" getting injected would have kept you daughter from contracting covid, why didn't the fact that she was injected prevent her from getting it?
Hope she has a mild case and recovers quickly btw.
Do you not post on Texags?
A large number of free-thinking, healthy individuals say just that.
Her being out of work 10 days, assuming minimal to no-symptoms, is an issue driven by HORRIBLE public policy guidance from the CDC and other health organizations....not due to unvaccinated individuals....
planoaggie123 said:94chem said:planoaggie123 said:larry culpepper said:
Deaths are down because vaccines work. The only ones who are still dying from covid are unvaccinated. that's my point.
I travelled internationally 2 weeks ago and went to bars. I'm living my life. I'm just annoyed seeing things regress back into 2020 levels because covid is getting out of hand again.
Just live your life. You are vaccinated. You are good to go.
Do you get annoyed at the number of Type 2 diabetes diagnosis each year? There are about 1.5M new cases each year. Does it weight on you daily? Do you beg people that are overweight or eating unhealthy to change their ways?
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/statistics-about-diabetes.
Average daily deaths with diabetes and 2021 covid are pretty consistent (342 per day vs 285 per day)
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/
Yeah, but my company never had to close a plant because too many people got diabetes.
I would think any reasonable company / plant would handle a rush of COVID like they would the flu. Every year we have flu/cold that hits companies. People get sick. Sure, maybe a few extra via COVID but, since the vaccine has been out, I have yet to hear of "whole-plant" closures. How many people work in your plant and how many got COVID all at the same time to require shut-down? Was that pre-vaccine or post-vaccine?
We have a vaccine. It works. If you have co-workers who refuse to get the vaccine yet they are taking weeks off for being sick, that is between them and your employer and will work itself out quickly.
Exactly. It has nothing to do with government.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
farmrag said:She was one of the unfortunate ones to get it after being vaccinated. Her case has been mild but may not have been if she had not been vaccinated. My gripe is now she is out of work for 10 days and they are very busy at work. FWIW, I've never heard anyone say I sure am glad I got Covid instead of the shot. I've heard plenty of people say they are glad they got the shot.rafer69 said:
Again this make zero sense.
If "those two" getting injected would have kept you daughter from contracting covid, why didn't the fact that she was injected prevent her from getting it?
Hope she has a mild case and recovers quickly btw.
I have seen it posted on TexAgs quite a few times. I'm still not sure if I have had Covid because the blood bank stopped testing for antibodies, but I would take getting Covid over having the vaccine 10 times out of 10.
coolerguy12 said:
I have seen it posted on TexAgs quite a few times. I'm still not sure if I have had Covid because the blood bank stopped testing for antibodies, but I would take getting Covid over having the vaccine 10 times out of 10.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
I'm glad I got Covid instead of the shot.farmrag said:She was one of the unfortunate ones to get it after being vaccinated. Her case has been mild but may not have been if she had not been vaccinated. My gripe is now she is out of work for 10 days and they are very busy at work. FWIW, I've never heard anyone say I sure am glad I got Covid instead of the shot. I've heard plenty of people say they are glad they got the shot.rafer69 said:
Again this make zero sense.
If "those two" getting injected would have kept you daughter from contracting covid, why didn't the fact that she was injected prevent her from getting it?
Hope she has a mild case and recovers quickly btw.
You should probably call her boss and tell him you're angry at him now.farmrag said:She was one of the unfortunate ones to get it after being vaccinated. Her case has been mild but may not have been if she had not been vaccinated. My gripe is now she is out of work for 10 days and they are very busy at work. FWIW, I've never heard anyone say I sure am glad I got Covid instead of the shot. I've heard plenty of people say they are glad they got the shot.rafer69 said:
Again this make zero sense.
If "those two" getting injected would have kept you daughter from contracting covid, why didn't the fact that she was injected prevent her from getting it?
Hope she has a mild case and recovers quickly btw.
Zobel said:
If people treated polio, measles, and smallpox the way they're treating covid we would still be having outbreaks in the US.
Comparing covid to those diseases marks you as fundamentally unserious. Polio had like a 15-30% case fatality rate depending on the strain and was a 50/50 shot of severe physical handicap afterward like FDR. Smallpox, depending on the strain was 30%-100% case fatality rate. Measles was much lower at a 5% CFR but that was almost all in children under 5 years of age and caused significant incidence of acute hearing loss and even brain damage due to persistent high fevers.
Covid has absolutely minuscule incidence of serious cases, death, and long-term effects in comparison.
If covid were remotely as deadly as the aforementioned diseases it changes the risk calculus significantly.
I'm genuinely curious why some of you would prefer contracting COVID to the vaccine.
I'm also wondering how much testing those of you continuously referring to the vaccines as "experimental" have gone through.
I'm also wondering how much testing those of you continuously referring to the vaccines as "experimental" have gone through.
This may sound crazy....some people in life just don't prefer to jump to medicine the first sign of a sniffle.
If you go to my house....we have VERY little medicine. What we have might actually be expired and is kid medicine. We mainly keep band-aids and sunscreen. Anything else is on a need-to-buy basis and usually we just "tough it out".
As far as "prefer contracting vs vaccine".....i think you can be neither> I 'prefer' to not catch COVID (just as I prefer to not get the vaccine) and I take some basic precautions to avoid catching it it but if I were to contract it I am comfortable, based on the scientific numbers using age and health profile, that I am likely to survive.
If you go to my house....we have VERY little medicine. What we have might actually be expired and is kid medicine. We mainly keep band-aids and sunscreen. Anything else is on a need-to-buy basis and usually we just "tough it out".
As far as "prefer contracting vs vaccine".....i think you can be neither> I 'prefer' to not catch COVID (just as I prefer to not get the vaccine) and I take some basic precautions to avoid catching it it but if I were to contract it I am comfortable, based on the scientific numbers using age and health profile, that I am likely to survive.
It's not fundamentally unserious. The severity of the disease is not the comparison I was making. Regardless of disease severity, if people looked at those vaccines the way they look at the covid vaccine the impact would be different.TarponChaser said:Zobel said:
If people treated polio, measles, and smallpox the way they're treating covid we would still be having outbreaks in the US.
Comparing covid to those diseases marks you as fundamentally unserious. Polio had like a 15-30% case fatality rate depending on the strain and was a 50/50 shot of severe physical handicap afterward like FDR. Smallpox, depending on the strain was 30%-100% case fatality rate. Measles was much lower at a 5% CFR but that was almost all in children under 5 years of age and caused significant incidence of acute hearing loss and even brain damage due to persistent high fevers.
Covid has absolutely minuscule incidence of serious cases, death, and long-term effects in comparison.
If covid were remotely as deadly as the aforementioned diseases it changes the risk calculus significantly.
Measles is probably the closest comparison. Your case fatality rate doesn't seem right. Here is a CDC document about it. You shouldn't compare case fatalities rates to COVID's infection fatality rate.
Measles like chicken pox was contracted by almost every child in the US before adulthood, so the number of cases was something like 3-4 million per year, with something like 400 deaths per year. The estimated infection fatality rate is then around 0.01%. But maybe those numbers are underreported (maybe some measles deaths were called other things). Recent outbreak numbers in the EU are 0.24% in 2017 and 0.035% in 2012.
I think it is safe to say COVID is somewhere between a similar to to an order of magnitude more deadly than the measles on a population basis, although fortunately not for children. Based on this new information, do you think it changes the risk calculus? We should treat it like the measles then, yes?
At any rate the fact remains. If we treated measles the way we treat covid, we'd still have large outbreaks in the US.
Copied from Ramblin_Ag (doctor) here
Quote:
Death rates for mandatory vaccinations for school include:
Measles- which you mentioned as 2 in 1000
Mumps- which you mentioned as 1 in 10000
Varicella Zoster (chickenpox)- 1-20 deaths per 100,000 cases depending on age
Rubella- almost no deaths. 1 in 5000 chance of encephalitis, most fully recover
Polio- 2-30% but basically 0% if you start talking about using iron lungs
H Flu- 3-6% under 6 years old, higher over 65 years old, almost no deaths between those ages
Pertussis- 1-4% only in those less than 5 years old. Very rare deaths otherwise
Tetanus- 30%
Diptheria- 5-10%
Pneumococcal pneumonia- 5-7%
So Covid's death rates fall right in line with measles, mumps, varicella zoster, rubells and pertussis, especially when you figure the fact that is more contagious than any of these except for measles and it has a vulnerable population in the elderly.
I think measles is the closest comparison. Extremely contagious, most people will have mild to moderate symptoms like a cold or flu, some people will have severe disease with long term problems, and some people will die. Yet the measles vaccine has been entirely uncontroversial for 50 years and no one yells about "freedom" when it comes to mandatory measles vaccines.
He also noted later that the polio number is off - it should be 1/200 of that as only that many people with polio infection get paralysis (poliomyelitis).
One thing I am not sure about and maybe you can help clarify.
How is Measles vs COVID vaccine different?
With Measles shot....you get it shot and then can you then get Measles and spread it like COVID? Or is it like COVID and everyone basically gets Measles and you just dont have reactions?
I guess my question is...is there an underlying difference in effectiveness at "squashing" measles vs what we see with COVID? The COVID vaccine does not seem to stop getting viral loads and spreading....same with Measles?
How is Measles vs COVID vaccine different?
With Measles shot....you get it shot and then can you then get Measles and spread it like COVID? Or is it like COVID and everyone basically gets Measles and you just dont have reactions?
I guess my question is...is there an underlying difference in effectiveness at "squashing" measles vs what we see with COVID? The COVID vaccine does not seem to stop getting viral loads and spreading....same with Measles?
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