3rd Generation Ag said:

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Thanks for understanding why I elect to mask with the best mask I can get even though fully moderna vaccinated prior to the ice storm. There are cases like mentioned in the first post, that still wind up in the hospital...and I try to avoid that always. A little extra caution causes no harm. I will know when it feels right to ME not to mask up. I have zero issues with school requiring me to mask and my apartment complex requiring masking in the halls, elevators, and common amenity areas.

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What are your metrics for no longer masking? It's very likely at this point covid will be endemic and not going away.

GAC06 said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.

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Plenty of fear mongering and disinformation from our public health officials too unfortunately. Just look at fully vaccinated double masked Fauci.

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Totally agree, he is ridiculous. The data is pretty clear that those vaccinated are highly unlikely to shed or spread this thing. Rand Paul was correct in saying what he is doing is for theatre.

bay fan said:

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GAC06 said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.

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Plenty of fear mongering and disinformation from our public health officials too unfortunately. Just look at fully vaccinated double masked Fauci.

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Right, how dare he model behavior he believes in the interest of public health.

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For those fully vaccinated it DOES NOTHING for sure. It probably has a minimal effect on those that are not vaccinated. You are almost as bad as the antivax crowd believing things that you WANT to believe. A study in confirmation bias.

beerad12man said:

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bay fan said:

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Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.

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Others can be as cautious as they want.

The problem becomes when another individual doesn't see eye to eye, and the person wanting to be more cautious infringes on someone else moving forward who sees things differently. People are just going to have to start being okay with people moving on at different rates. No one is saying there is anything wrong with taking it more cautiously, but don't infringe on someone else who doesn't want to. Someone who is more than ready, has been for a year now, and are beyond sick and tired of people telling us just 2 weeks, just a couple months to slow the spread, just a few more months, just through the winter, just until the vaccine comes, just until a certain portion is vaccinated, and now just until we have more data on the vaccines. My guess is, soon we will start to hear some suggest we wait until we make sure the vaccines last, and that the variants don't start slipping through. For someone like Fauci, this may never completely end, as there will always be a potential scare on the horizon.

Instead of being the way Fauci has been, in my opinion, he should give the data we do have as best he can, and begin to let the people make the best choices for themselves more and more as we move forward. He should say that in the vast majority of cases, a vaccinated individual seems unlikely to contract covid, but not impossible, and that it does seem to have a strong correlation to preventing spread as well. While not 100%, if you wish to continue to social distance and wear masks, that could be wise for at risk folks who want to be more cautious. However, overall, spread from a vaccine is far, far less likely than before the vaccine, and far more likely to prevent it than a mask or social distancing has shown to have done in the last year. The masks are, and this is within statistical chance of other potential outliers, possibly about 0.5% effective daily based on our limited study, but vaccinations seem to be closer to 80% or more effected than non-vaccinated individuals. So a vaccinated individual even not wearing a mask is far less likely to spread the virus than a non-vaccinated individual wearing a mask.

I mean, if the goal is to not overwhelm hospitals, you have to go off the percentages, and not every last possible way to get covid, or shaping public policy to prevent every last case. If so, this will never end. Of course, this isn't possible, because fauci seems to only be able to speak off of 100% guarantees to move forward it seems. The vast majority of people I know, don't need 100% guarantees to live their life.

Also, my guess(and hope) is that your daughters case is extremely mild. and that her roommate(also extremely mild) who got it in December either never completely shed the virus, has a false positive, or has an extremely minor case, and was likely tested at the time her body was fighting it off(which is what immunity does), and had just enough to be positive. Most people who test positive twice actually don't have two separate, full blown contagious cases. She could be in the rare company that does, I don't really know. But again, it shouldn't' shape policy.

If they do, then their immune system might have some issues. You do seem to always present some rare cases, early on with the 20 something year old friend who I remember tragically lost her life, now a re-infection, and post vaccination infection. Kind of the trifecta on abnormalities. I am sorry to hear all that.

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Well put and reasoned points. No one seems to be able to take the middle ground on this thing. It is either the over cautious or the anti science morons with most of the talking points. What you said is spot on!

01agtx said:

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Diyala Nick said:

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01agtx said:

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Another Doug said:

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If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right

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In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

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I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.

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In the last 20 years, the US government has paid out $4.5 billion dollars in damages for vaccine injury so if you want to believe indoor plumbing is equal, go on.

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Those numbers work out to about one person per million doses of vaccine given. As I stated earlier these things happen but are also extremely rare. If you or someone can not do a risk reward analysis and chooses not be vaccinated because of these RARE possible outcomes then yeah they deserve to be made fun of.

Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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01agtx said:

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Diyala Nick said:

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01agtx said:

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Another Doug said:

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If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right

---

In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

---

I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.

---

In the last 20 years, the US government has paid out $4.5 billion dollars in damages for vaccine injury so if you want to believe indoor plumbing is equal, go on.

---

Those numbers work out to about one person per million doses of vaccine given. As I stated earlier these things happen but are also extremely rare. If you or someone can not do a risk reward analysis and chooses not be vaccinated because of these RARE possible outcomes then yeah they deserve to be made fun of.

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What is your deal with wanting to make fun of people? It's bizarre. It's not that rare. I have worked with way more than my fair share of vaccine injured children. Let's agree to disagree.

One case per million is RARE! My point is the antivaxers use these RARE events to demagogue. If they just kept to themselves and choose not to get vaccinated then no problem, but most of them make asses of themselves with posts on Facebook and videos from these anti Vax crusaders. It's misinformation, it's factually incorrect and it causes some to not get vaccinated based on demagoguery. It's wrong and I will make fun of idiots, I also make fun of flat earthers and young earth creationist. They use confirmation bias to shape the narrative that they have and don't want to listen to reason.

01agtx said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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01agtx said:

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Diyala Nick said:

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01agtx said:

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Another Doug said:

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If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right

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In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

---

I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.

---

In the last 20 years, the US government has paid out $4.5 billion dollars in damages for vaccine injury so if you want to believe indoor plumbing is equal, go on.

---

Those numbers work out to about one person per million doses of vaccine given. As I stated earlier these things happen but are also extremely rare. If you or someone can not do a risk reward analysis and chooses not be vaccinated because of these RARE possible outcomes then yeah they deserve to be made fun of.

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What is your deal with wanting to make fun of people? It's bizarre. It's not that rare. I have worked with way more than my fair share of vaccine injured children. Let's agree to disagree.

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It's not making fun of them, it's getting a rational message out. We have so much misinformation out there and everyone has heard of someone who know someone.....

GAC06 said:

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bay fan said:

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hoosierAG said:

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bay fan said:

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Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.

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Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.

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Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.

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It's absolutely rare. Very rare. Like 2 in 10,000 rare according to studies.

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Bay fan also knows a 24 yr old ultra runner that passed away from covid. Another very rare occurrence. Makes you think

tysker said:

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GAC06 said:

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bay fan said:

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hoosierAG said:

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bay fan said:

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Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.

---

Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.

---

Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.

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It's absolutely rare. Very rare. Like 2 in 10,000 rare according to studies.

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Bay fan also knows a 24 yr old ultra runner that passed away from covid. Another very rare occurrence. Makes you think

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She was a 29 year old transplant nurse with zero underlying conditions except extreme good health. Funny how a normal middle aged woman like me literally knows unicorns like this wonderful young woman who died and currently someone who had it in December who is reinfected when people say neither of these things happen in any significant amount. While Audrey is nothing more then a statistician to some, to her family and friends Covid is very real.

I am thrilled the vaccines are rolling out quickly now and hope the majority of people will get it as soon as possible. In this same group of young women as the reinfection, there was the initial spreader, my daughter who got it shortly after getting the J&J vaccine ( before it had time to work) and two others who got it. The only one who did not get it was finished with the Moderna series. That's promising in my book.

Do you recognize the irony of being a critic of anti-vaxxers who are worried about the statistically small chance of significant side effects while openly doubting the scientific evidence that young people face very little risk from covid, and reinfection is very rare?

Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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One case per million is RARE! My point is the antivaxers use these RARE events to demagogue. If they just kept to themselves and choose not to get vaccinated then no problem, but most of them make asses of themselves with posts on Facebook and videos from these anti Vax crusaders. It's misinformation, it's factually incorrect and it causes some to not get vaccinated based on demagoguery. It's wrong and I will make fun of idiots, I also make fun of flat earthers and young earth creationist. They use confirmation bias to shape the narrative that they have and don't want to listen to reason.

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Are you basing your one in a million claim on those who are actually paid for their injury? Most doctors don't report injury to VAERS or tell their patients they can self report. They certainly don't tell them they can be compensated for their injuries. You are awfully aggressive and over the top with you anger. Do you work in medicine?

bay fan said:

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tysker said:

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GAC06 said:

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bay fan said:

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hoosierAG said:

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bay fan said:

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Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.

---

Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.

---

Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.

---

It's absolutely rare. Very rare. Like 2 in 10,000 rare according to studies.

---

Bay fan also knows a 24 yr old ultra runner that passed away from covid. Another very rare occurrence. Makes you think

---

She was a 29 year old transplant nurse with zero underlying conditions except extreme good health. Funny how a normal middle aged woman like me literally knows unicorns like this wonderful young woman who died and currently someone who had it in December who is reinfected when people say neither of these things happen in any significant amount. While Audrey is nothing more then a statistician to some, to her family and friends Covid is very real.

I am thrilled the vaccines are rolling out quickly now and hope the majority of people will get it as soon as possible. In this same group of young women as the reinfection, there was the initial spreader, my daughter who got it shortly after getting the J&J vaccine ( before it had time to work) and two others who got it. The only one who did not get it was finished with the Moderna series. That's promising in my book.

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It's extremely unlikely she was reinfected. The more like scenario is that it's latent infection persisting from December.

GAC06 said:

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Do you recognize the irony of being a critic of anti-vaxxers who are worried about the statistically small chance of significant side effects while openly doubting the scientific evidence that young people face very little risk from covid, and reinfection is very rare?

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Where did I criticize anti-vaxxers?

I will definitely criticize them when their choices begin to effect others but I am unaware of that being that case yet. People skipping the Covid vaccine will prolong this epidemic and therefor will effect the rest of us.

Salute The Marines said:

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bay fan said:

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tysker said:

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GAC06 said:

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bay fan said:

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hoosierAG said:

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bay fan said:

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Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.

---

Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.

---

Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.

---

It's absolutely rare. Very rare. Like 2 in 10,000 rare according to studies.

---

Bay fan also knows a 24 yr old ultra runner that passed away from covid. Another very rare occurrence. Makes you think

---

She was a 29 year old transplant nurse with zero underlying conditions except extreme good health. Funny how a normal middle aged woman like me literally knows unicorns like this wonderful young woman who died and currently someone who had it in December who is reinfected when people say neither of these things happen in any significant amount. While Audrey is nothing more then a statistician to some, to her family and friends Covid is very real.

I am thrilled the vaccines are rolling out quickly now and hope the majority of people will get it as soon as possible. In this same group of young women as the reinfection, there was the initial spreader, my daughter who got it shortly after getting the J&J vaccine ( before it had time to work) and two others who got it. The only one who did not get it was finished with the Moderna series. That's promising in my book.

---

It's extremely unlikely she was reinfected. The more like scenario is that it's latent infection persisting from December.

---

Why do people argue when they (meaning you) know nothing of the circumstance? This young woman was positive in December. Negative last Monday and positive when tested again on Friday. She tested again because she was living in a house filled with people who are positive prior to going out all weekend. But by all means, make up an explanation that is wrong but more acceptable to you.

The only person NOT infected in this instance of 6 young women in their twenties, including one known to have had Covid was the one person fully vaccinated. Why are you arguing about this? It's positive news unless you want to rely on lasting immunity from an infection.

Because based on CDC data and their own information reinfections are extremely rare. They had indicated that most of the time these suspected reinfections are simply lingering infections, and will often show as negatives in between positives.

Do you think the CDC is wrong? If so, why?

I hope they are not wrong and do believe it hasn't been common. Let's hope new strains don't increase reinfection. I am relaying personal experience happening right now in Dallas and your explanation doesn't fit the circumstance.

Why are you arguing about this? The positive take away is that being fully vaccinated proved to have better immunity then a past infection.

bay fan said:

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GAC06 said:

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Do you recognize the irony of being a critic of anti-vaxxers who are worried about the statistically small chance of significant side effects while openly doubting the scientific evidence that young people face very little risk from covid, and reinfection is very rare?

---

Where did I criticize anti-vaxxers?

I will definitely criticize them when their choices begin to effect others but I am unaware of that being that case yet. People skipping the Covid vaccine will prolong this epidemic and therefor will effect the rest of us.

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"Prolonging the pandemic" isn't a rational way to look at it. Pretty much any expert will tell you they expect covid to be around a long time. Its over when people decide it's over and judging by crowds at bars and restaurants the last few days, it's pretty much over.

This is a great example of the downside of PCR tests. I notice you keep saying she's infected, not sick.

If you're in a high risk group, you have to assess the vaccine risk vs the risk of catching the virus.

bay fan said:

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I hope they are not wrong and do believe it hasn't been common. Let's hope new strains don't increase reinfection. I am relaying personal experience happening right now in Dallas and your explanation doesn't fit the circumstance.

Why are you arguing about this? The positive take away is that being fully vaccinated proved to have better immunity then a past infection.

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I disagree. Nothing is proven by this little anecdote.

ORAggieFan said:

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This is a great example of the downside of PCR tests. I notice you keep saying she's infected, not sick.

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Actually two are quite sick, 103 degree fevers seem to have broken but low grade remains as well as many other Covid symptoms and under a doctors care. The other three had varying but less severe cases but all were symptomatic.

bay fan said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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This is a great example of the downside of PCR tests. I notice you keep saying she's infected, not sick.

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Actually two are quite sick, 103 degree fevers seem to have broken but low grade remains as well as many other Covid symptoms and under a doctors care. The other three had varying but less severe cases but all were symptomatic.

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I'm talking about this person that's had it twice in three months.

Low fever and head ache but not super sick but contagious and that's the point. If you don't get it, you don't spread it. In this instance, the vaccine shined as the most effective way to be immune.

01agtx said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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01agtx said:

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Diyala Nick said:

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01agtx said:

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Another Doug said:

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If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right

---

In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

---

I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.

---

In the last 20 years, the US government has paid out $4.5 billion dollars in damages for vaccine injury so if you want to believe indoor plumbing is equal, go on.

---

Those numbers work out to about one person per million doses of vaccine given. As I stated earlier these things happen but are also extremely rare. If you or someone can not do a risk reward analysis and chooses not be vaccinated because of these RARE possible outcomes then yeah they deserve to be made fun of.

---

What is your deal with wanting to make fun of people? It's bizarre. It's not that rare. I have worked with way more than my fair share of vaccine injured children. Let's agree to disagree.

---

Serious vaccine-related injuries are very rare. You're on here trying to justify anti-vax, and I have absolutely no qualms saying that you're dumb as ****. Thanks for perpetuating a false claim that has allowed diseases like measles to become more prevalent.

BowSowy said:

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01agtx said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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01agtx said:

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Diyala Nick said:

---

01agtx said:

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Another Doug said:

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If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right

---

In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

---

I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.

---

In the last 20 years, the US government has paid out $4.5 billion dollars in damages for vaccine injury so if you want to believe indoor plumbing is equal, go on.

---

Those numbers work out to about one person per million doses of vaccine given. As I stated earlier these things happen but are also extremely rare. If you or someone can not do a risk reward analysis and chooses not be vaccinated because of these RARE possible outcomes then yeah they deserve to be made fun of.

---

What is your deal with wanting to make fun of people? It's bizarre. It's not that rare. I have worked with way more than my fair share of vaccine injured children. Let's agree to disagree.

---

Serious vaccine-related injuries are very rare. You're on here trying to justify anti-vax, and I have absolutely no qualms saying that you're dumb as ****. Thanks for perpetuating a false claim that has allowed diseases like measles to become more prevalent.

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I'd rather speak the truth and get called names than fold for people who have no idea what they are talking about.

01agtx said:

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BowSowy said:

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01agtx said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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01agtx said:

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Diyala Nick said:

---

01agtx said:

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Another Doug said:

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If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right

---

In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

---

I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.

---

In the last 20 years, the US government has paid out $4.5 billion dollars in damages for vaccine injury so if you want to believe indoor plumbing is equal, go on.

---

Those numbers work out to about one person per million doses of vaccine given. As I stated earlier these things happen but are also extremely rare. If you or someone can not do a risk reward analysis and chooses not be vaccinated because of these RARE possible outcomes then yeah they deserve to be made fun of.

---

What is your deal with wanting to make fun of people? It's bizarre. It's not that rare. I have worked with way more than my fair share of vaccine injured children. Let's agree to disagree.

---

Serious vaccine-related injuries are very rare. You're on here trying to justify anti-vax, and I have absolutely no qualms saying that you're dumb as ****. Thanks for perpetuating a false claim that has allowed diseases like measles to become more prevalent.

---

I'd rather speak the truth and get called names than fold for people who have no idea what they are talking about.

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You should start trying to speak the truth.....

Please post 3 sources that you feel best speak the truth.

Another Doug said:

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Please post 3 sources that you feel best speak the truth.

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I said many times that I am speaking from my own personal experience. Do y'all make a habit of gaslighting people on their careers? We are not going to agree and that's ok.

I have no idea what your career is, so don't take it personal. But yes, I do think defending anti-vax is a crazy position to take. If that's gaslighting then this is me...

Just had a young (28), very healthy, individual test positive for COVID. Has been fully vaccinated since early February. Symptoms were just mild ("itchy") sore throat, and congestion. Almost didn't test.

He did not have a robust reaction to either dose of the vaccine, if that means anything.

Will you test for variants? How is it determined which tests to further examine?

bay fan said:

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Will you test for variants? How is it determined which tests to further examine?

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Called the lab and asked them to save the sample. We don't have sequencing capability. I'll have to see if a lab/research that does wants to bit off on it.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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Just had a young (28), very healthy, individual test positive for COVID. Has been fully vaccinated since early February. Symptoms were just mild ("itchy") sore throat, and congestion. Almost didn't test.

He did not have a robust reaction to either dose of the vaccine, if that means anything.

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For every 100 vaccinated there should be 5 cases like his. Almost 1/3 of all J&J vaccinated should at worst be like him.

We need to remember the point is hospitalizations and death, not eradication.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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Just had a young (28), very healthy, individual test positive for COVID. Has been fully vaccinated since early February. Symptoms were just mild ("itchy") sore throat, and congestion. Almost didn't test.

He did not have a robust reaction to either dose of the vaccine, if that means anything.

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How/why did a young healthy person get fully vaccinated so early? And why would you test for covid for something that reads like an allergy? Will covid testing become routine?