aggiemetal said:

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The reverse Darwinism aspect of it, coupled with a crazy prolonged incubation period. Where the denial crowd can be out and about spreading it, not giving a damn, and common sense people (not panic/not denier, just middle ground smart) and their families are the ones that could bear the brunt.
LOL that and off the chance the same person that potentially infects me could be one of the vocal minority zoo posters that use the mechanism of fear known commonly as denial, acting like it's eternally March 1st and dubs this "a flu" (just kidding but the fact it actually could be someone with the same combination or arrogance/ignorance frustrates me).

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This attitude is the crux of the situation. Each side vilifies the other, and if you don't stay inside your house you're an idiot.

There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

The attempts to politicize known inexpensive treatments.

Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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Making friends and influencing people....

What treatment?

DadHammer said:

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"We see 90+ year old people recover, yet we see 30 year old's not make it."

That just is not really true. It kills way way way more over 65 than 30 years olds.

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This, the under 65 crowd for the most part survive or have very few complications. It's much more rare for a 30-40 year old to actually pass. This is the issue with how the virus is reported. Just like the 2-3 million deaths predicted early on that has been greatly walked beck by the person who did the initial study. But many still see that as a fact and repeat it.

bay fan said:

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GE said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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How many *******s won't even take the simple step of wearing a mask in public

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If I go into public and don't cough or sneeze even one time how is me wearing a mask helping anybody else?

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If the people within 6 feet of me have masks on, I wear one because it obviously matters to them and it's polite. In a store where someone is working I do it as a matter of respect. It's really just a master of being polite and thoughtful to those around us.

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I refuse to adopt the notion that anyone not wearing a mask is a careless a-hole. Some of us are adults and know how to keep a reasonable distance, stay clean, and breath normally through our noses without spreading "droplets".

Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

I mean it's somewhat reasonable to not wear a mask if you aren't going to be talking around other people

So I get that. Just don't speak in public and you'll be doing your part.

The most frustrating thing to me is watching Aggies personally attack other Aggies for just having a different opinion. Which by the way, seems to be pretty correct.

It is frustrating to see smart people being so easily influenced by supposedly foolproof science when historically epidemiologists have never been right on this stuff.

Frustrated by the preponderance to trust science over common sense and science together. Epidemiologists and stats play a role obviously but like weathermen they base a prediction on a snapshot in time and things change. There is a reason they are not clinicians.

Frustrated by the media's complete partisanship and lack of respect for the POTUS.

Frustrated with politicians adding pork onto coronavirus relief.

Frustrated by not being able to go to Aggie baseball games and church.

And edited to add that I got really frustrated when posters were sure that the US would run out of vents and hospital beds.

And also when people focused on Italy and disregarded Washington and later California.

I think to say "epidemiologists have never been right" is a misstatement. And while the science is developing, it shouldn't be ignored. And worse, not trusted.

But agree, missing Aggie Baseball is incredibly frustrating.

75AG said:

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I think to say "epidemiologists have never been right" is a misstatement. And while the science is developing, it shouldn't be ignored. And worse, not trusted.

But agree, missing Aggie Baseball is incredibly frustrating.

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Fair enough but historically if you look at what epidemiologists say at the start of any disease and what actually happens is never the same. And the epidemiologists know that. Things always change. And they know that.

And I have worked with Dr. Fauci and have the utmost respect for him. Do not know Dr. Birx. Both are a lot smarter than me and anything I say is not a criticism of them. My criticism is of the worship of numbers and models without critical thinking and common sense.

And which "model" was even close to being correct?

From what I've read, social distancing greatly reduced the projected rates in the original models. Hopefully that reduction will continue as thins are gradually opened back up.

Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

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You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

75AG said:

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From what I've read, social distancing greatly reduced the projected rates in the original models. Hopefully that reduction will continue as thins are gradually opened back up.

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As long as people understand that social distancing is only a means of keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed. In other words, you can not stop the spread of a respiratory virus by social distancing. You can only slow it down.

All this was a delay tactic until we get a treatment or a vacccine.

I will get even more frustrated if people somehow believe this stops the virus.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

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You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

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It's "childish" to not wear a mask in public?

Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

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You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

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It's "childish" to not wear a mask in public?

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In a word, "Yes"

Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

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You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

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Perhaps some of us do not want to slow the spread now that we know who is impacted by this. Maybe we want to isolate our parents and go for herd immunity immediately and be back to normal by this fall.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

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You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

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It's "childish" to not wear a mask in public?

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In a word, "Yes"

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Yeah..... I'm gonna have to disagree with this. I've yet to see agreement from the medical community on this that says wearing a surgical or sloppy home made mask does anything other than stop you from spewing droplets out if you cough. I'm not coughing, so I'm not wearing a mask. And if I'm coughing, I'm not going out in public.

And frankly the vast majority of mask wearers I'm seeing who are taking them off to talk on the phone or drink their Starbucks is pretty laughable anyways.

Also, government shouldn't be allowed to require me to wear a seltbelt. It's absolutely stupid that we utilize the argument that wearing a seatbelt keeps you from being thrown out of the vehicle, but keep allowing people to ride motorcycles. (Disclaimer: I do wear my seltbelt FWIW).

The whole mask thing is an interesting subject and not a hill I would choose to die on.

I have been thinking about this and in over 40 years of medicine I and other health care have worn masks. Not infectious patients.

My feeling is if you do not want to go where people are not wearing masks either wear one yourself or do not go.

Agree with you completely on China. When you see Trump, Pelosi, Fauci, and the media all say this is no big deal at the same time in January obviously the Chicoms were lying.

Quote:

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government shouldn't be allowed to require me to wear a seltbelt. It's absolutely stupid that we utilize the argument that wearing a seatbelt keeps you from being thrown out of the vehicle, but keep allowing people to ride motorcycles. (Disclaimer: I do wear my seltbelt FWIW).

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You do realize this is bc the Auto and insurance companies lobbied the government to do this right ? It's always political
and money driven.

The mask thing....if it allows people to feel comfortable and opens the economy faster, why not wear one?

you first, let us now how it goes

I'm in the low risk group and don't want to catch it

The_Fox said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

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You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

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Perhaps some of us do not want to slow the spread now that we know who is impacted by this. Maybe we want to isolate our parents and go for herd immunity immediately and be back to normal by this fall.

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I really hope you and those that think like you would take some time to understand what is going to be required to achieve herd immunity without a vaccination before deciding that this is the best course for everyone.

Surgical masks reduce the transmission of the virus from you to a nearby victim by 90%. They confer no health benefit from you acquiring the virus while wearing one. N-95 different story.

JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:

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The_Fox said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

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You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

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Perhaps some of us do not want to slow the spread now that we know who is impacted by this. Maybe we want to isolate our parents and go for herd immunity immediately and be back to normal by this fall.

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I really hope you and those that think like you would take some time to understand what is going to be required to achieve herd immunity without a vaccination before deciding that this is the best course for everyone.

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It is fully understood. Most will get sick, some will die (mostly the old and frail), the rest will move on.

what if initial viral load/inoculum is correlated to severity of symptoms?

wouldn't you wearing a surgical mask also help cut that down?

JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:

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The_Fox said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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There is a lot of daylight between "stay in your house or you're an idiot" and "for ****'s sake, wear a mask in public. It is a minor inconvenience that will literally speed up the economic recovery and is no more of a government overreach than seat belt laws or school zones"

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BS. This virus ain't going away any time soon. You should be directing 100% of your anger and frustration at evil and corrupt communist China. Not normal American adults who know how to breathe without spreading "droplets" everywhere and refuse to ask "how high?" when incompetent socialist leaders like Lina Hidalgo threaten them with punishment if they don't "jump".

---

You know what I can do two things at once. ...I can throw hate at China and at people that won't wear masks for some childish reason. Masks are most effective if we ALL wear them. Not if a few, not if some but ALL.

Yes this virus isn't going away anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow it's spread through the simplest, cheapest and one of the most effective means.

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Perhaps some of us do not want to slow the spread now that we know who is impacted by this. Maybe we want to isolate our parents and go for herd immunity immediately and be back to normal by this fall.

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I really hope you and those that think like you would take some time to understand what is going to be required to achieve herd immunity without a vaccination before deciding that this is the best course for everyone.

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I do. Over the next 2-3 years 200K up to 1 mil will catch and die from COVID19. They will be overwhelmingly the aged, obese, and ill. The same population susceptible to pneumonia and the flu.

Good ? I haven't seen any data re that. But yes. IMO viral inoculum / load is one of the variables to severity of illness. With sustained intimate exposure to an infected individual over 20-30 min being the highest risk. Touching viral particles on surfaces and then touching your face being much lower. Count me in the ABO serotype camp as variability goes. We'll see.

Dislike generalized ones size fits all solutions to the China Corona Virus (CCV), Be that medical drug efficacy, shut down necessity, scope, timeline, presumed community impact, etc.

Example:
NYC/NE Corridor impact vs rest of the continental US.

masks have a lot of usefulness to everyone involved

if you're infected (whether you know it or not), it significantly cuts down on your droplet spread

if you're not infected, it still has advantages with regard to viral load to take in on close contact. a single particle isn't going to get you sick. it usually takes minutes of exposure and the bigger the droplets the more concentration of exposure during that timeframe

plus there's an awareness/solidarity aspect to masking. things are not normal and we are reminding ourselves of that. and we're in this together, respectful of how we are going to give each other space until we make the required tech advances to get past this.

I don't see a good argument at all for not using masks in public spaces where people are talking.

If we have no vaccine within 2-3 years, I think your herd immunity cost numbers are severely low. Hopefully we'll get one before then.

100% agree. Especially as we open up. Think the Asians on to something with that. But. The F16 type folks will refuse.

F16 = the control group