I've been thinking about this as in looking at the mortality rates for Europe versus other places.

I think the way we are really good at keeping really sick people alive at baseline is going to actually really skew our numbers in favor of increased mortality.

The way this things picks off the heavily comorbid people is going to mean we will suffer some heavy losses and maybe losses more than other countries because in other countries, those heavily cormobid people are dead.

Just starting a discussion, would be interested to hear thoughts.

The "world's best healthcare system" in the UK is projected to be thousands of beds short of need. We are fine if we could bring down cost of healthcare services. Unfortunately, the world's densely packed, mass-transit dependent cities like New York and London were doomed to spread this virus, or any virus, for that matter.

It's actually our obesity that sets us up for higher morbidity than we should have. This thing is tough on fat people and we have a society that is too fat.

Are we keeping score?

Demo_Slug said:

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Are we keeping score?

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The people who make choices about our health care system will be keeping score. You think that if the NHS has a better mortality rate than us, it won't be used by the pro Medicare for all people as a reason?

It's our fast food system, not our health care system

AgStuckinLBK said:

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Demo_Slug said:

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Are we keeping score?

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The people who make choices about our health care system will be keeping score. You think that if the NHS has a better mortality rate than us, it won't be used by the pro Medicare for all people as a reason?

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Since when do we deny emergency care? Our emergency care has always been socialized even for immigrants.

Right now Spain, Italy, UK, France, Belgium, Sweden, Netherlands, and Switzerland all have higher death rates than the US despite having less obesity and generally healthier populations. So if Covid death rate is the measure of a health care system, ours is better.

Gumby said:

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Right now Spain, Italy, UK, France, Belgium, Sweden, Netherlands, and Switzerland all have higher death rates than the US despite having less obesity and generally healthier populations. So if Covid death rate is the measure of a health care system, ours is better.

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HEAD SHOT!!!!!!!!

Bingo Bango Bongo said:

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It's our fast food system, not our health care system

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Add to it Suburban lifestyle where we drive quarter mile to a drive through and pick up 20 soft Tacos then drive another 200 yards to pick up 30 day supply of Prozac from Walgreens drive through.

Then park the Tahoe in the garage 15 feet away from an oversized Lazyboy recliner and chomp down 12 tacos while letting out toxic farts and teasing also overweight golden retriever.

Americans are fat. And BMI conversation on TexAgs turn quite defensive as "I'm 6'2" 230 and if I get down to 190, I will look anorexic." STFU and lose some weight.

Agree. American weight is disgusting and BMI serves as a semi-decent rule of thumb. But I do say this as a 6'2" 200 lb flatbelly that is technically 0.5 into the overweight category. We get an extra $400 in our HSA if you can get "healthy" in 4 out of 5 categories - waist size under ___ inches, cholesterol, blood pressure, blood sugar, and bmi. I nail the first 4 and always have to use my free pass on bmi. I don't think it is a 3-dimensionalizes height properly

BMI is a joke when every NFL running back is considered obese to morbidly obese your system is wrong. BMI does not take muscle mass into account and is therefore useless for anyone moderately active. Ezekiel Elliot is 6'0 225 shredded and considered obese.

lil_frog8 said:

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BMI is a joke when every NFL running back is considered obese to morbidly obese your system is wrong. BMI does not take muscle mass into account and is therefore useless for anyone moderately active. Ezekiel Elliot is 6'0 225 shredded and considered obese.

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Here we go...

High muscle mass individuals like NFL RB are the exceptions and not the rule. And exceptions don't make the rule.

Try NBA players why don't you... And PGA golfers who are 6ft 180? Olympic swimmers... Professional tennis players... Usain bolt 6'5" 200 pounds.. They don't lack muscle tone..


Face it... Americans are fat. In last 60 years, we gained an inch or 2 in height but 30 pounds in weight. And the gain isn't in muscles. New norm is obesity. And hip and knee replacements because joints can't handle all that weight.

This quarantine is quickly helping me get fat.

So, because unhealthy people in India just die, their remaining population is generally healthier and less impacted by a virus that weeds out the unhealthy?

It seems plausible, but then you remember that the healthcare which shapes these countries persists in the reaction to the virus, so it's probably a wash (20% less healthy, but it's because we're 20% better at keeping the unhealthy alive both pre and post virus and thus the net is equal).

AggieDruggist89 said:

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lil_frog8 said:

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BMI is a joke when every NFL running back is considered obese to morbidly obese your system is wrong. BMI does not take muscle mass into account and is therefore useless for anyone moderately active. Ezekiel Elliot is 6'0 225 shredded and considered obese.

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Here we go...

High muscle mass individuals like NFL RB are the exceptions and not the rule. And exceptions don't make the rule.

Try NBA players why don't you... And PGA golfers who are 6ft 180? Olympic swimmers... Professional tennis players... Usain bolt 6'5" 200 pounds.. They don't lack muscle tone..


Face it... Americans are fat. In last 60 years, we gained an inch or 2 in height but 30 pounds in weight. And the gain isn't in muscles. New norm is obesity. And hip and knee replacements because joints can't handle all that weight.

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Most Americans are fat, but BMI is still a crappy system if it improperly classifies a bunch of people as overweight. (and it does) NFL players are extreme cases, but there are tons of healthy that BMI says are overweight simply because they have some muscle.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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lil_frog8 said:

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BMI is a joke when every NFL running back is considered obese to morbidly obese your system is wrong. BMI does not take muscle mass into account and is therefore useless for anyone moderately active. Ezekiel Elliot is 6'0 225 shredded and considered obese.

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Here we go...

High muscle mass individuals like NFL RB are the exceptions and not the rule. And exceptions don't make the rule.

Try NBA players why don't you... And PGA golfers who are 6ft 180? Olympic swimmers... Professional tennis players... Usain bolt 6'5" 200 pounds.. They don't lack muscle tone..


Face it... Americans are fat. In last 60 years, we gained an inch or 2 in height but 30 pounds in weight. And the gain isn't in muscles. New norm is obesity. And hip and knee replacements because joints can't handle all that weight.

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It's still makes it a joke. Body fat percentage is a much better indicator. Not hard to do, so I don't know why anyone would use BMI instead.

Yep. You don't need to be a pro athlete, or even a semi body builder. Even just a slight amount of muscle mass can skew it and put you into a different category than someone with the exact same amount of fat but less muscle. Body fat percentage is far greater of a tell when trying to determine if someone is overweight/potentially unhealthy or not.

Most Americans are fat... Justify all you want.

And so are the most BMI bashers...

nonameag99 said:

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Gumby said:

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Right now Spain, Italy, UK, France, Belgium, Sweden, Netherlands, and Switzerland all have higher death rates than the US despite having less obesity and generally healthier populations. So if Covid death rate is the measure of a health care system, ours is better.

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HEAD SHOT!!!!!!!!

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And Norway, Finland, Japan, South Korea, Portugal, and many others are not.

But I also don't think deaths per population size are the best measure of healthcare systems, nor do I think healthcare systems in broad terms are the primary driver behind death rates.

Our health care system sucks until you get sick. Then it's the best in the world.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Most Americans are fat... Justify all you want.

And so are the most BMI bashers...

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Yep. I got up to 26. I didn't feel fat. I just added 1 pound per year for 15 years. I worked out regularly. I ate well. But then I ran 2500 miles in about 2.5 years. 17 pounds slowly disappeared. I'm at ~23.5 now. It's easier to talk trash about BMI than it is to change it. Sure, it's not God's Law or anything. But it was a dose of reality.

40% of all adults are obese.

70% of adults over age 65 have comorbities.

BMI is a good tool for measuring populations, but not for individuals.

The interesting thing about the re-opening order is that it has the vunerable population continuing to shelter at home until Phase 3. Here is their definition:

Quote:

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1. Elderly individuals.

2. Individuals with serious underlying health conditions, including high blood pressure, chronic lung disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma, and those whose immune system is compromised such as by chemotherapy for cancer and other conditions requiring such therapy.

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Isn't that half of adults in the US? I doubt even a majority of vunerable individuals will adhere to that. My dad, who checks 3 of the comorbidity boxes and is elderly is even chomping at the bit to go back to work the first day he's allowed. Should be interesting.

HotardAg07 said:

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40% of all adults are obese.

70% of adults over age 65 have comorbities.

BMI is a good tool for measuring populations, but not for individuals.

The interesting thing about the re-opening order is that it has the vunerable population continuing to shelter at home until Phase 3. Here is their definition:

Quote:

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1. Elderly individuals.

2. Individuals with serious underlying health conditions, including high blood pressure, chronic lung disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma, and those whose immune system is compromised such as by chemotherapy for cancer and other conditions requiring such therapy.

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Isn't that half of adults in the US? I doubt even a majority of vunerable individuals will adhere to that. My dad, who checks 3 of the comorbidity boxes and is elderly is even chomping at the bit to go back to work the first day he's allowed. Should be interesting.

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Gonna be interesting when some people get to continue work from home because they're fat. Reminds me of this:

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Most Americans are fat... Justify all you want.

And so are the most BMI bashers...

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I'm a 37 year old former Aggie track athlete and currently have %12 body fat at 5'9. And weight is 205 so I'm pushing morbidly obese how is that not a joke. And again most people that defend BMI are hypocrites trying to make a buck off diet pills and pharmaceuticals. Body fat % blood pressure v02 max is and always will be the only true measure of health and fitness. The rest is generalized pseudoscience.

You're an exeption...

Right because your typical American who's 5'9 200 pounds all have 12% body fat...

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Most Americans are fat... Justify all you want.

And so are the most BMI bashers...

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Who's justifying BMI? Just because we think it's a pretty poor, unreliable tool doesn't mean we don't think America is fat. Most the people who bash BMI are actually in solid shape themselves. Not trying to make excuses for being fat.

When I come within a healthy range of body fat % but fail BMI, I don't give a damn.

Like someone else said, it's okay as an easy way to measure population. For individuals, just get body fat measured instead if they really wanted an accurate assessment.