https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/aerosol-coronavirus-spread-white-house-letter/index.html


If so, this is a huge game changer because previous thought was that viable portions of virus were spread through droplets which usually were shed within three feet of the infected person.

Edit to say that I am not trying to be alarmist, but this poses some radical rethinking of preventive measures.

Korean doctors say it's through droplets from sneezing or even talking. When you talk, spit sometimes comes out so that's why they think talking can transmit. As for breathing, they say no. Wear a mask!

I read somewhere that airline personnel are not coming down with this at the rates you would expect if just breathing/talking was enough.

Can't remember where I read it though.

Not sure that transmission threat really impacts what needs to happen to get back to "normal" in advance of there being an available vaccine.

At some point don't we need to just get people wearing masks, washing hands, avoiding 10 people in a conference room and get back to work?

Not sure how long we need to give hospitals and manufacturers of ventilators/drugs/PPE....

Masks are the answer right now because it seems to be the most effective preventive measure.

Aerosol and Surface Stability of SARS-CoV-2 as Compared with SARS-CoV-1, New England Journal of Medicine, March 17, 2020

Quote:

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SARS-CoV-2 remained viable in aerosols throughout the duration of our experiment (3 hours),

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Quote:

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Our results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is plausible, since the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for hours and on surfaces up to days (depending on the inoculum shed). These findings echo those with SARS-CoV-1, in which these forms of transmission were associated with nosocomial spread and super-spreading events,5 and they provide information for pandemic mitigation efforts.

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Everything i have read since december says this is so. Not a game changer at all. This is why china was spraying disinfectant in huge hundreds of thousands of huge industrial trucks, amomg other things.

The 6' 6 second rule is good, likely would prevent a large viral load, but you can sure as hell still get it.

Its also lived on surfaces over 17 days.

Theres a reason for the huge government reactions apparently.

17 days??? Where is this reported. This changes my mail quarantine rule...

That was "traces of the virus" from the cruise ship, as I recall.

There was NOT functional virus found after 17 days.

planoaggie123 said:

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17 days??? Where is this reported. This changes my mail quarantine rule...

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RNA from the virus was able to be detected with a test, but it was not an active, infectious virus by that point.

planoaggie123 said:

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17 days??? Where is this reported. This changes my mail quarantine rule...

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-23/coronavirus-traces-lingered-in-vacated-cruise-cabins-for-17-days

Cruise ships so far.

Cardboard out doors it would probably not last near that long, its sort of a half life thing too. Depends on how many little ****ers were hanging on to start with.

Tape, or interior plastic packaging it will almost certainly last several days. Maybe much more.

We are doing 4 days in garage (no sun...this is because of the constant chance of rain lately)....wondering if i should do a full week?

I am doing less than that, fwiw, though i am careful to wash hands after touching and not breathe air disturbed while openijg packages.

right. i wash hands after but if that darn virus is on something in the package after 4 days and you track it in...i guess you can wipe it off...but i am running low on Clorox wipes and trying to save it for food items that dont hvae the privilage to "wait" in my garage....

Squadron7 said:

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I read somewhere that airline personnel are not coming down with this at the rates you would expect if just breathing/talking was enough.

Can't remember where I read it though.

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Air moves constantly in a commercial airliner and they have industrial filters. Most literature I've read seems to imply that even if CV is easily spreadable through talking and breathing that in an airplane it probably is pretty quickly removed from the air.

Texaggie7nine said:

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Squadron7 said:

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I read somewhere that airline personnel are not coming down with this at the rates you would expect if just breathing/talking was enough.

Can't remember where I read it though.

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Air moves constantly in a commercial airliner and they have industrial filters. Most literature I've read seems to imply that even if CV is easily spreadable through talking and breathing that in an airplane it probably is pretty quickly removed from the air.

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Exactly. Modern commercial airlines are crappy vectors for spreading airborne diseases. The air is constantly being drawn into the recirculation system which passes it through multiple HEPA filters. The 787 goes a step farther and uses much less recirculated air.

The people at most risk would be those sitting right ahead and next to a person who is sick. Flight attendants would have a slightly higher risk since they move around the cabin throughout most of the flight.

The virus can live up to 24 hours on cardboard. Up to 3 days on plastic and steel (including plastic packing tape on those cardboard boxes, I would assume), and up to 4 days on glass. I tack on an extra day to all of those for my garage quarantine procedures, just to be safe.

My understanding is that the traces found at 17 days on the cruise ship were not active or infectious at that point.

ok. so my 4 days is good based on this. that is close to what i remember seeing. thanks!

John Francis Donaghy said:

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The virus can live up to 24 hours on cardboard. Up to 3 days on plastic and steel (including plastic packing tape on those cardboard boxes, I would assume), and up to 4 days on glass. I tack on an extra day to all of those for my garage quarantine procedures, just to be safe.

My understanding is that the traces found at 17 days on the cruise ship were not active or infectious at that point.

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Right. Just finding the virus' RNA hanging around does not mean it is viable. It still needs host cells to attach to for viral replication. My worry is viable virus that is suspended midair.

cbr said:

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I am doing less than that, fwiw, though i am careful to wash hands after touching and not breathe air disturbed while openijg packages.

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The virus doesn't rise up off a solid surface such as mail or containers of food. The only issue with the virus on surfaces is the transfer to your mucous membranes by your contaminated hands. Leaving mail or packages in the garage or anywhere else is not necessary..

Not sure I would say unnecessary as the virus, if on mail, could die off and limit any risk of exposure. If you open it straight up without that time you have to wash hands and be sure to Clorox wipe all surfaces it touched.

Also understand that each strain may have different levels of aerosol ability.

Some strains may need more fluid based, while others may live longer in fine aerosol form... we simply don't know or have much data yet.

Http://nextstrain.org

If there was ever a time for "Say it, don't spray it"

Tugg Speedman said:

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If there was ever a time for "Say it, don't spray it"

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Took the words or spit out of my mouth

planoaggie123 said:

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Not sure I would say unnecessary as the virus, if on mail, could die off and limit any risk of exposure. If you open it straight up without that time you have to wash hands and be sure to Clorox wipe all surfaces it touched.

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You still need to wash your hands after handling it regardless of how many days you leave it there. Nothing changes that.

There are a couple of articles (One in the New England Journal of Medicine) that suggest uncertainty on whether or not this virus could be airborne. They have modeling of apartment complexes in China where there was a large outbreak of COVID19 that could have not been explained by droplet transmission and could be reasonably be explained by prevailing winds and airborne transmission. This could explain the virus being more devastating in dense areas such as NY but this is only my thoughts. To me it gives me reason to recommend even more strict social distancing. Surgical masks in public would be nice and have been shown to hinder the spread of SARS, however, leave the N95s for the nurses and doctors intimately taking care of these patients and likely exposing themselves to mega loads of viral particles.

Likely would wash hands as I do all the time now but I only have so many Clorox wipes so I do not plan to wipe the items off too. If I did wipe off no reason to quarantine.

planoaggie123 said:

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Likely would wash hands as I do all the time now but I only have so many Clorox wipes so I do not plan to wipe the items off too. If I did wipe off no reason to quarantine.

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We ran low on Clorox wipes so bought a set of terry cloth towels, mixed 2 tbsp of bleach in a spray bottle, added water, a couple pumps of fragrant soap, and boom, all the disinfectant we need.

Cmon America we can do this everyone to a corner stick there nose in it and play the quiet game for 2 weeks

Go!

Gizzards said:

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planoaggie123 said:

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Not sure I would say unnecessary as the virus, if on mail, could die off and limit any risk of exposure. If you open it straight up without that time you have to wash hands and be sure to Clorox wipe all surfaces it touched.

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You still need to wash your hands after handling it regardless of how many days you leave it there. Nothing changes that.

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I understand and definitely still do wash my hands thoroughly after opening boxes. But for me there's additional peace of mind knowing that even if I miss a spot or under a fingernail when washing my hands, anything that might have been on the box is probably dead and harmless anyway if it has been sitting untouched in my garage for 4+ days.

Probably overkill, I admit. But I have an infant in the house, and a little bit of overkill is pretty much what I'm shooting for. I probably wouldn't jump through those extra hoops if it were just me.

jturner181 said:

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Also understand that each strain may have different levels of aerosol ability.

Some strains may need more fluid based, while others may live longer in fine aerosol form... we simply don't know or have much data yet.

Http://nextstrain.org

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Hey, so I saw your other post. Those various mutations don't represent any functional changes. If you look at the protein map, there's very little / no change to the actual protein expression.

All of the different mutations don't make different strains.