We get it. Your post history shows you've been bearish on the virus since Day 1 (even going so far as replying to someone on the "do you know anyone with coronavirus" that you don't actually believe their cousin's friend in Italy died from it).

But talking today about how medical doctors are all wrong, hospitals are not overrun is spiking the football in the 1st quarter. The trend line for Texas being in trouble isn't even supposed to get started until end of this week, into late next week.

If all of these hospital beds are still sitting vacant then, THEN you can spike the football that doctors were wrong about their projections (whether the results were due to social distancing or not).

Saying there's no problems in Texas right now is akin to the people (like yourself) 4 weeks ago saying this whole thing is just the Democrats looking to generate chaos.

Saying Texas made the wrong decisions on medical preparation for this is like Sumlin running the clock out at midfield in the 2nd quarter in because "it looks like we're not going to need more points".

PneumAg said:

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Moxley said:

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Texas started getting the word out about social distancing before it started spreading like crazy here and people seem to have taken it more seriously, thankfully. It's obviously pretty difficult to prove a negative in terms of what might have been had we done nothing, but I would take Texas' position over Louisiana or New York any day. However, I would caution that lack of testing may give people a false level of confidence that the virus isn't as bad as what we think. For whatever reason Texas seems to have a high false negative rate. We intubated three more people yesterday with signs / symptoms of viral pneumonia, one of which previously tested negative and the other two still had tests pending. The testing is the most frustrating part of all of this.

That being said, hospitals in Texas are prepping for a big increase that we hope never comes and the executive order banning elective procedures should have never happened. It should have been up to the local level. Our same day surgery crews, OR staff, and one of our nursing units are all being reassigned as possible or on furlough. We've also reduced hours for lab personnel, dietary, and have cancelled every person working under a temporary contract. Just a month ago we were offering five-figure bonuses for new nurse hires because we were so desperate for staff. Now we are in a hiring freeze. If this lasts for another month there will likely be layoffs.

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Lack of testing isn't giving us any false hope. Hospitals are not overrun, and that's what was confidently predicted by many doctors two weeks ago. As long as hospitals still have capacity, testing numbers do not matter. I have six doctors in my immediate and extended family, and every one of them was going crazy sending out text messages and emails telling people to stay in their homes, prepare for mass deaths, this is going to be the worst thing we've ever seen, we're getting ready to go to war, we need a nationwide shutdown, etc.

Doctors are qualified to do the following: diagnose the virus, treat it, analyze it, and recommend ways to neutralize it or avoid contracting it.

Doctors are NOT, in any way whatsoever, qualified to offer their opinions on balancing the competing interests of public health vs. the economy and the financial livelihood of citizens. Every doctor I have spoken to does not think we've gone far enough with the lock downs. All of them, to a man, wanted a national lockdown or at least a statewide lockdown. This seems to be what you guys wanted (or at least every single doctor I know), so I don't feel a whole lot of sympathy for hospitals who are suddenly hurting for business.

When it comes to matters of macro and micro economic policy, medical doctors are no more qualified than monkeys, and they should not be consulted or heeded on such matters. Unfortunately, our politicians have made the grave mistake of making economic policy for 320 million people based on the extremely narrow-minded guidance of those unqualified medical doctors. That's why your hospital is in the position it's in, and that's why many working Americans are in the precarious position they are in.

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This may be the greatest post in TexAgs history. Impeccably done PneumAg. Bravo.

My goodness you really have no idea how any of this works

Apparently the doctors in your family are exceedingly myopic. Next time just ask me and I'll let you know how to allocate your 401k

PneumAg said:

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Moxley said:

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Texas started getting the word out about social distancing before it started spreading like crazy here and people seem to have taken it more seriously, thankfully. It's obviously pretty difficult to prove a negative in terms of what might have been had we done nothing, but I would take Texas' position over Louisiana or New York any day. However, I would caution that lack of testing may give people a false level of confidence that the virus isn't as bad as what we think. For whatever reason Texas seems to have a high false negative rate. We intubated three more people yesterday with signs / symptoms of viral pneumonia, one of which previously tested negative and the other two still had tests pending. The testing is the most frustrating part of all of this.

That being said, hospitals in Texas are prepping for a big increase that we hope never comes and the executive order banning elective procedures should have never happened. It should have been up to the local level. Our same day surgery crews, OR staff, and one of our nursing units are all being reassigned as possible or on furlough. We've also reduced hours for lab personnel, dietary, and have cancelled every person working under a temporary contract. Just a month ago we were offering five-figure bonuses for new nurse hires because we were so desperate for staff. Now we are in a hiring freeze. If this lasts for another month there will likely be layoffs.

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Lack of testing isn't giving us any false hope. Hospitals are not overrun, and that's what was confidently predicted by many doctors two weeks ago. As long as hospitals still have capacity, testing numbers do not matter. I have six doctors in my immediate and extended family, and every one of them was going crazy sending out text messages and emails telling people to stay in their homes, prepare for mass deaths, this is going to be the worst thing we've ever seen, we're getting ready to go to war, we need a nationwide shutdown, etc.

Doctors are qualified to do the following: diagnose the virus, treat it, analyze it, and recommend ways to neutralize it or avoid contracting it.

Doctors are NOT, in any way whatsoever, qualified to offer their opinions on balancing the competing interests of public health vs. the economy and the financial livelihood of citizens. Every doctor I have spoken to does not think we've gone far enough with the lock downs. All of them, to a man, wanted a national lockdown or at least a statewide lockdown. This seems to be what you guys wanted (or at least every single doctor I know), so I don't feel a whole lot of sympathy for hospitals who are suddenly hurting for business.

When it comes to matters of macro and micro economic policy, medical doctors are no more qualified than monkeys, and they should not be consulted or heeded on such matters. Unfortunately, our politicians have made the grave mistake of making economic policy for 320 million people based on the extremely narrow-minded guidance of those unqualified medical doctors. That's why your hospital is in the position it's in, and that's why many working Americans are in the precarious position they are in.

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mic drop

PneumAg said:

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Moxley said:

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Texas started getting the word out about social distancing before it started spreading like crazy here and people seem to have taken it more seriously, thankfully. It's obviously pretty difficult to prove a negative in terms of what might have been had we done nothing, but I would take Texas' position over Louisiana or New York any day. However, I would caution that lack of testing may give people a false level of confidence that the virus isn't as bad as what we think. For whatever reason Texas seems to have a high false negative rate. We intubated three more people yesterday with signs / symptoms of viral pneumonia, one of which previously tested negative and the other two still had tests pending. The testing is the most frustrating part of all of this.

That being said, hospitals in Texas are prepping for a big increase that we hope never comes and the executive order banning elective procedures should have never happened. It should have been up to the local level. Our same day surgery crews, OR staff, and one of our nursing units are all being reassigned as possible or on furlough. We've also reduced hours for lab personnel, dietary, and have cancelled every person working under a temporary contract. Just a month ago we were offering five-figure bonuses for new nurse hires because we were so desperate for staff. Now we are in a hiring freeze. If this lasts for another month there will likely be layoffs.

---

Lack of testing isn't giving us any false hope. Hospitals are not overrun, and that's what was confidently predicted by many doctors two weeks ago. As long as hospitals still have capacity, testing numbers do not matter. I have six doctors in my immediate and extended family, and every one of them was going crazy sending out text messages and emails telling people to stay in their homes, prepare for mass deaths, this is going to be the worst thing we've ever seen, we're getting ready to go to war, we need a nationwide shutdown, etc.

Doctors are qualified to do the following: diagnose the virus, treat it, analyze it, and recommend ways to neutralize it or avoid contracting it.

Doctors are NOT, in any way whatsoever, qualified to offer their opinions on balancing the competing interests of public health vs. the economy and the financial livelihood of citizens. Every doctor I have spoken to does not think we've gone far enough with the lock downs. All of them, to a man, wanted a national lockdown or at least a statewide lockdown. This seems to be what you guys wanted (or at least every single doctor I know), so I don't feel a whole lot of sympathy for hospitals who are suddenly hurting for business.

When it comes to matters of macro and micro economic policy, medical doctors are no more qualified than monkeys, and they should not be consulted or heeded on such matters. Unfortunately, our politicians have made the grave mistake of making economic policy for 320 million people based on the extremely narrow-minded guidance of those unqualified medical doctors. That's why your hospital is in the position it's in, and that's why many working Americans are in the precarious position they are in.

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I agree with almost all of your posts. But you don't think NYC hospitals are overrun?

aginlakeway said:

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PneumAg said:

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Moxley said:

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Texas started getting the word out about social distancing before it started spreading like crazy here and people seem to have taken it more seriously, thankfully. It's obviously pretty difficult to prove a negative in terms of what might have been had we done nothing, but I would take Texas' position over Louisiana or New York any day. However, I would caution that lack of testing may give people a false level of confidence that the virus isn't as bad as what we think. For whatever reason Texas seems to have a high false negative rate. We intubated three more people yesterday with signs / symptoms of viral pneumonia, one of which previously tested negative and the other two still had tests pending. The testing is the most frustrating part of all of this.

That being said, hospitals in Texas are prepping for a big increase that we hope never comes and the executive order banning elective procedures should have never happened. It should have been up to the local level. Our same day surgery crews, OR staff, and one of our nursing units are all being reassigned as possible or on furlough. We've also reduced hours for lab personnel, dietary, and have cancelled every person working under a temporary contract. Just a month ago we were offering five-figure bonuses for new nurse hires because we were so desperate for staff. Now we are in a hiring freeze. If this lasts for another month there will likely be layoffs.

---

Lack of testing isn't giving us any false hope. Hospitals are not overrun, and that's what was confidently predicted by many doctors two weeks ago. As long as hospitals still have capacity, testing numbers do not matter. I have six doctors in my immediate and extended family, and every one of them was going crazy sending out text messages and emails telling people to stay in their homes, prepare for mass deaths, this is going to be the worst thing we've ever seen, we're getting ready to go to war, we need a nationwide shutdown, etc.

Doctors are qualified to do the following: diagnose the virus, treat it, analyze it, and recommend ways to neutralize it or avoid contracting it.

Doctors are NOT, in any way whatsoever, qualified to offer their opinions on balancing the competing interests of public health vs. the economy and the financial livelihood of citizens. Every doctor I have spoken to does not think we've gone far enough with the lock downs. All of them, to a man, wanted a national lockdown or at least a statewide lockdown. This seems to be what you guys wanted (or at least every single doctor I know), so I don't feel a whole lot of sympathy for hospitals who are suddenly hurting for business.

When it comes to matters of macro and micro economic policy, medical doctors are no more qualified than monkeys, and they should not be consulted or heeded on such matters. Unfortunately, our politicians have made the grave mistake of making economic policy for 320 million people based on the extremely narrow-minded guidance of those unqualified medical doctors. That's why your hospital is in the position it's in, and that's why many working Americans are in the precarious position they are in.

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I agree with almost all of your posts. But you don't think NYC hospitals are overrun?

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I personally think he knows that...IMO he is talking about the 'nation as a whole'. He is basically saying that you can't make policies for the entire 320 million people without input from a lot of sector experts (not just Drs...some of which are out of touch but highly educated Govt Bureaucrat Drs with limited boot on the ground experience).

I think in a vacuum most of us agree.

But if that decision was pushed from a federal level, one has to trust they felt it was that serious.

Whichever side of the political spectrum one falls on, its safe to assume that decisions like this look at a lot more factors than a bunch of Texags posters.

CT75 said:

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aginlakeway said:

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PneumAg said:

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Moxley said:

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Texas started getting the word out about social distancing before it started spreading like crazy here and people seem to have taken it more seriously, thankfully. It's obviously pretty difficult to prove a negative in terms of what might have been had we done nothing, but I would take Texas' position over Louisiana or New York any day. However, I would caution that lack of testing may give people a false level of confidence that the virus isn't as bad as what we think. For whatever reason Texas seems to have a high false negative rate. We intubated three more people yesterday with signs / symptoms of viral pneumonia, one of which previously tested negative and the other two still had tests pending. The testing is the most frustrating part of all of this.

That being said, hospitals in Texas are prepping for a big increase that we hope never comes and the executive order banning elective procedures should have never happened. It should have been up to the local level. Our same day surgery crews, OR staff, and one of our nursing units are all being reassigned as possible or on furlough. We've also reduced hours for lab personnel, dietary, and have cancelled every person working under a temporary contract. Just a month ago we were offering five-figure bonuses for new nurse hires because we were so desperate for staff. Now we are in a hiring freeze. If this lasts for another month there will likely be layoffs.

---

Lack of testing isn't giving us any false hope. Hospitals are not overrun, and that's what was confidently predicted by many doctors two weeks ago. As long as hospitals still have capacity, testing numbers do not matter. I have six doctors in my immediate and extended family, and every one of them was going crazy sending out text messages and emails telling people to stay in their homes, prepare for mass deaths, this is going to be the worst thing we've ever seen, we're getting ready to go to war, we need a nationwide shutdown, etc.

Doctors are qualified to do the following: diagnose the virus, treat it, analyze it, and recommend ways to neutralize it or avoid contracting it.

Doctors are NOT, in any way whatsoever, qualified to offer their opinions on balancing the competing interests of public health vs. the economy and the financial livelihood of citizens. Every doctor I have spoken to does not think we've gone far enough with the lock downs. All of them, to a man, wanted a national lockdown or at least a statewide lockdown. This seems to be what you guys wanted (or at least every single doctor I know), so I don't feel a whole lot of sympathy for hospitals who are suddenly hurting for business.

When it comes to matters of macro and micro economic policy, medical doctors are no more qualified than monkeys, and they should not be consulted or heeded on such matters. Unfortunately, our politicians have made the grave mistake of making economic policy for 320 million people based on the extremely narrow-minded guidance of those unqualified medical doctors. That's why your hospital is in the position it's in, and that's why many working Americans are in the precarious position they are in.

---

I agree with almost all of your posts. But you don't think NYC hospitals are overrun?

---

I personally think he knows that...IMO he is talking about the 'nation as a whole'. He is basically saying that you can't make policies for the entire 320 million people without input from a lot of sector experts (not just Drs...some of which are out of touch but highly educated Govt Bureaucrat Drs with limited boot on the ground experience).

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Understand. I also think New Orleans hospitals are overrun. I think we're just all hoping those 2 examples don't become the norm for hospitals. As I said, I agree with his post.

aginlakeway said:

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PneumAg said:

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Moxley said:

---

Texas started getting the word out about social distancing before it started spreading like crazy here and people seem to have taken it more seriously, thankfully. It's obviously pretty difficult to prove a negative in terms of what might have been had we done nothing, but I would take Texas' position over Louisiana or New York any day. However, I would caution that lack of testing may give people a false level of confidence that the virus isn't as bad as what we think. For whatever reason Texas seems to have a high false negative rate. We intubated three more people yesterday with signs / symptoms of viral pneumonia, one of which previously tested negative and the other two still had tests pending. The testing is the most frustrating part of all of this.

That being said, hospitals in Texas are prepping for a big increase that we hope never comes and the executive order banning elective procedures should have never happened. It should have been up to the local level. Our same day surgery crews, OR staff, and one of our nursing units are all being reassigned as possible or on furlough. We've also reduced hours for lab personnel, dietary, and have cancelled every person working under a temporary contract. Just a month ago we were offering five-figure bonuses for new nurse hires because we were so desperate for staff. Now we are in a hiring freeze. If this lasts for another month there will likely be layoffs.

---

Lack of testing isn't giving us any false hope. Hospitals are not overrun, and that's what was confidently predicted by many doctors two weeks ago. As long as hospitals still have capacity, testing numbers do not matter. I have six doctors in my immediate and extended family, and every one of them was going crazy sending out text messages and emails telling people to stay in their homes, prepare for mass deaths, this is going to be the worst thing we've ever seen, we're getting ready to go to war, we need a nationwide shutdown, etc.

Doctors are qualified to do the following: diagnose the virus, treat it, analyze it, and recommend ways to neutralize it or avoid contracting it.

Doctors are NOT, in any way whatsoever, qualified to offer their opinions on balancing the competing interests of public health vs. the economy and the financial livelihood of citizens. Every doctor I have spoken to does not think we've gone far enough with the lock downs. All of them, to a man, wanted a national lockdown or at least a statewide lockdown. This seems to be what you guys wanted (or at least every single doctor I know), so I don't feel a whole lot of sympathy for hospitals who are suddenly hurting for business.

When it comes to matters of macro and micro economic policy, medical doctors are no more qualified than monkeys, and they should not be consulted or heeded on such matters. Unfortunately, our politicians have made the grave mistake of making economic policy for 320 million people based on the extremely narrow-minded guidance of those unqualified medical doctors. That's why your hospital is in the position it's in, and that's why many working Americans are in the precarious position they are in.

---

I agree with almost all of your posts. But you don't think NYC hospitals are overrun?

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Are they? Is there proof that they are overrun?

Are NYC hospitals being overrun? Is there proof that they are?

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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I had 3 bad shifts in a row of almost nothing but COVID, but that seems to have slowed. The last 2 shifts I've seen a total of 1 possible COVID patient. I'm hoping that trend continues.

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This is the kind of anecdotal evidence I would be looking for right now to show that "social distancing" is making an impact.

The official numbers of cases, lag reality, I believe, by up to 10 days.

I hear people complaining that "social distancing isn't working" because the reported numbers of cases are still increasing over 2 weeks past when we started practicing "social distancing" at a high rate.

I think I'd give it another week still before we see the rate of increase in cases start going down. A caveat to this will be if asymptomatic, or lightly symptomed people start getting tested at a higher rate.

anecdotally, my daughter had a cough and shortness of breath so she self-quarantined for 10 days but was not allowed to be tested. She's better now and should be able to go back to work (at a grocery store) in a couple of days.

Jet Black said:

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Are NYC hospitals being overrun? Is there proof that they are?

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Proof? I don't like to use that word unless I've seen it for myself. But the does seem to be a lot of evidence to suggest they are ...

Temporary hospitals being built
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/03/29/emergency-hospital-being-constructed-in-central-park

Navy ship
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/usns-comfort-arrives-in-nyc-monday-to-help-hospital-with-non-coronavirus-patients/2350317/

Dead bodies in trucks
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8167283/Horrifying-moment-dead-bodies-loaded-refrigerated-truck-forklift.html

Video from inside ...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/03/30/coronavirus-covid-19-new-york-city-hospital-marquez-newday-vpx.cnn

Numerous doctors testimony.

I have not been there, so I haven't seen it first hand. But there seems to be a lot of evidence to suggest that NYC hospitals overrun.

These twitter videos of people driving by hospitals as proof they aren't busy has got to be some of the most braindead **** I have ever seen. I would be embarrassed to point it out as "proof"

Think4yourself twitter and one america news.

Could you just take it to the political forum please?

MyNameIsKyle said:

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So, wait, we shouldn't listen to doctors and epidemiologists re: the spread of a pathogen, but should listen to economists re: the economic impact of the pathogen, despite their lack of knowledge re: spread of the disease? I have a sneaking suspicion you likely complained when Obama appointed a non-doctor to head the ebola crises response team.

Furthermore, as predictable as the sun rises, the initial effectiveness of disease mitigation strategies now becomes evidence of "stupidity" and "hysteria", with a complete lack of acknowledgement to ... the effectiveness of disease mitigation strategies.

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This can't be repeated enough. A lack of hospitals being overrun in Texas is not evidence that nothing should have been done. It is evidence that what was done was sufficient to blunt the pandemic from exploding on our front door - so far.

This isn't finished, but we would be having a far different conversation had the Houston Rodeo, SXSW, and the numerous St. Patty's Day festivities gone on as normal.

Not sure the status of Texas hospitals is evidence of anything.

wxguy95 said:

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MyNameIsKyle said:

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So, wait, we shouldn't listen to doctors and epidemiologists re: the spread of a pathogen, but should listen to economists re: the economic impact of the pathogen, despite their lack of knowledge re: spread of the disease? I have a sneaking suspicion you likely complained when Obama appointed a non-doctor to head the ebola crises response team.

Furthermore, as predictable as the sun rises, the initial effectiveness of disease mitigation strategies now becomes evidence of "stupidity" and "hysteria", with a complete lack of acknowledgement to ... the effectiveness of disease mitigation strategies.

---

This can't be repeated enough. A lack of hospitals being overrun in Texas is not evidence that nothing should have been done. It is evidence that what was done was sufficient to blunt the pandemic from exploding on our front door - so far.

This isn't finished, but we would be having a far different conversation had the Houston Rodeo, SXSW, and the numerous St. Patty's Day festivities gone on as normal.

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This was mentioned by a few people (myself included) a couple weeks back.

If our social distancing/quarantining works and things don't look too bad, lots of people are going to scream that we didn't need to do it when in fact it's the reason that things don't look too bad.