Speculation about covid-19 - could the way the disease is acquired be important?

3,162 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by eric76
eric76
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There are three different plagues, not one, that can result by being infected with Yersinia Pestis:
1) bubonic plague that you get when bitten by a flea that has Yersinia Pestis,
2) pneumonic plague when you breathe the Yersinia Pestis, and
3) septicemic plague when the Yersinia Pestis infects your blood.

During the plague, the first person in a household to get it was bitten by an infected flea and often survived. I don't remember what the mortality rate of the bubonic plague was, but I think it was about 50 or 60%.

Everyone else in the household was in much more serious trouble. They would be infected by breathing in the aerosolized droplets from the one with the bubonic plague and would get pneumonic plague which has a mortality rate of something like 90% (or maybe more), if I remember correctly.

Could we be seeing something similar with covid-19? There have been reports that you can get it from breathing in the virus, but it is more likely to be gotten from direct contact with surfaces. Could it be that those with the more serious symptoms from it have gotten it from breathing it in while the greater numbers of people who are suffering less serious cases of covid-19 be getting it from surfaces?

Perhaps the initial site of the infection is making an enormous difference in the seriousness of the disease.

It might be hard to test this, but could it be that the initial sites of infection be having larger problems. For example, there are a couple of people here who had eye pain as a very early symptom. Is it possible that the virus might have entered the body when they rubbed their eyes after coming into contact with it on a surface? Similarly, a number of people are reporting a loss of taste and smell as the earliest symptoms. What if they acquired the covid-19 virus from a surface and then scratched inside the nose or picked their nose?

After all, the virus is not going to immediately spread through the body. Rather, it will infect those cells that it comes into contact with. If the body has a good immunological response, then as the disease spreads, other sites in the body could be somewhat less impacted as the body ramps up its defenses.

Looking at it this way, if someone acquired the disease by breathing the virus into the lungs so that the first part of the body infected was the lungs, perhaps the disease would have much greater impact in the lungs.

Of course, for those who don't have as good of an immunological response, then it could more easily spread in the body.

Thus, it might be possible to see if the disease is more serious in those where the first symptoms are not around the nose, eyes, or mouth.

So could we be seeing something like this with covid-19? Surely plague is not the only disease where breathing it in results in far worse incomes than getting it from other methods.

Anyway, just a thought that I had this morning.
Marcus Aurelius
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eric76 said:

There are three different plagues, not one, that can result by being infected with Yersinia Pestis:
1) bubonic plague that you get when bitten by a flea that has Yersinia Pestis,
2) pneumonic plague when you breathe the Yersinia Pestis, and
3) septicemic plague when the Yersinia Pestis infects your blood.

During the plague, the first person in a household to get it was bitten by an infected flea and often survived. I don't remember what the mortality rate of the bubonic plague was, but I think it was about 50 or 60%.

Everyone else in the household was in much more serious trouble. They would be infected by breathing in the aerosolized droplets from the one with the bubonic plague and would get pneumonic plague which has a mortality rate of something like 90% (or maybe more), if I remember correctly.

Could we be seeing something similar with covid-19? There have been reports that you can get it from breathing in the virus, but it is more likely to be gotten from direct contact with surfaces. Could it be that those with the more serious symptoms from it have gotten it from breathing it in while the greater numbers of people who are suffering less serious cases of covid-19 be getting it from surfaces?

Perhaps the initial site of the infection is making an enormous difference in the seriousness of the disease.

It might be hard to test this, but could it be that the initial sites of infection be having larger problems. For example, there are a couple of people here who had eye pain as a very early symptom. Is it possible that the virus might have entered the body when they rubbed their eyes after coming into contact with it on a surface? Similarly, a number of people are reporting a loss of taste and smell as the earliest symptoms. What if they acquired the covid-19 virus from a surface and then scratched inside the nose or picked their nose?

After all, the virus is not going to immediately spread through the body. Rather, it will infect those cells that it comes into contact with. If the body has a good immunological response, then as the disease spreads, other sites in the body could be somewhat less impacted as the body ramps up its defenses.

Looking at it this way, if someone acquired the disease by breathing the virus into the lungs so that the first part of the body infected was the lungs, perhaps the disease would have much greater impact in the lungs.

Of course, for those who don't have as good of an immunological response, then it could more easily spread in the body.

Thus, it might be possible to see if the disease is more serious in those where the first symptoms are not around the nose, eyes, or mouth.

So could we be seeing something like this with covid-19? Surely plague is not the only disease where breathing it in results in far worse incomes than getting it from other methods.

Anyway, just a thought that I had this morning.
This is not true. Opposite in fact. See CDC info.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html
SeanAg05
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There is definitely evidence that the way you come in contact with the virus or the amount of original exposure to it can result in the severity of it... have not seen it broken down like you have but that makes since
AvidAggie
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If it's really hard to get it from just touching something, why all the talk about don't touch your face and wash your hands regularly?

I agree this should be basic hygiene but it makes be believe that COVID-19 is primarily spread from your own hands.
eric76
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Marcus Aurelius said:

eric76 said:

There are three different plagues, not one, that can result by being infected with Yersinia Pestis:
1) bubonic plague that you get when bitten by a flea that has Yersinia Pestis,
2) pneumonic plague when you breathe the Yersinia Pestis, and
3) septicemic plague when the Yersinia Pestis infects your blood.

During the plague, the first person in a household to get it was bitten by an infected flea and often survived. I don't remember what the mortality rate of the bubonic plague was, but I think it was about 50 or 60%.

Everyone else in the household was in much more serious trouble. They would be infected by breathing in the aerosolized droplets from the one with the bubonic plague and would get pneumonic plague which has a mortality rate of something like 90% (or maybe more), if I remember correctly.

Could we be seeing something similar with covid-19? There have been reports that you can get it from breathing in the virus, but it is more likely to be gotten from direct contact with surfaces. Could it be that those with the more serious symptoms from it have gotten it from breathing it in while the greater numbers of people who are suffering less serious cases of covid-19 be getting it from surfaces?

Perhaps the initial site of the infection is making an enormous difference in the seriousness of the disease.

It might be hard to test this, but could it be that the initial sites of infection be having larger problems. For example, there are a couple of people here who had eye pain as a very early symptom. Is it possible that the virus might have entered the body when they rubbed their eyes after coming into contact with it on a surface? Similarly, a number of people are reporting a loss of taste and smell as the earliest symptoms. What if they acquired the covid-19 virus from a surface and then scratched inside the nose or picked their nose?

After all, the virus is not going to immediately spread through the body. Rather, it will infect those cells that it comes into contact with. If the body has a good immunological response, then as the disease spreads, other sites in the body could be somewhat less impacted as the body ramps up its defenses.

Looking at it this way, if someone acquired the disease by breathing the virus into the lungs so that the first part of the body infected was the lungs, perhaps the disease would have much greater impact in the lungs.

Of course, for those who don't have as good of an immunological response, then it could more easily spread in the body.

Thus, it might be possible to see if the disease is more serious in those where the first symptoms are not around the nose, eyes, or mouth.

So could we be seeing something like this with covid-19? Surely plague is not the only disease where breathing it in results in far worse incomes than getting it from other methods.

Anyway, just a thought that I had this morning.
This is not true. Opposite in fact. See CDC info.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html
I was thinking of this from www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses:
Quote:

How does COVID-19 spread?

People can catch COVID-19 from others who have the virus. The disease can spread from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth which are spread when a person with COVID-19 coughs or exhales. These droplets land on objects and surfaces around the person. Other people then catch COVID-19 by touching these objects or surfaces, then touching their eyes, nose or mouth. People can also catch COVID-19 if they breathe in droplets from a person with COVID-19 who coughs out or exhales droplets. This is why it is important to stay more than 1 meter (3 feet) away from a person who is sick.

WHO is assessing ongoing research on the ways COVID-19 is spread and will continue to share updated findings.

Can the virus that causes COVID-19 be transmitted through the air?

Studies to date suggest that the virus that causes COVID-19 is mainly transmitted through contact with respiratory droplets rather than through the air. See previous answer on "How does COVID-19 spread?"


Since it seems logical that they would mention the more likely form of transmission of the disease first, I assumed that it was apparently more likely that they get it from contacting a surface than from breathing it in through the air.
Marcus Aurelius
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From CDC:

"Person to person-person spread:

The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.
  • Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).
  • Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.
These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs."

"It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads."

But still very important to protect from surface viral transmission.
eric76
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Marcus Aurelius said:

From CDC:

"Person to person-person spread:

The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.
  • Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).
  • Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.
These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs."

"It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads."
So even if it is respiratory droplets, those droplets are not necessarily breathed in. They might instead reach the mouth or nose first and not necessarily be inhaled into the lungs? I presume, the respiratory droplets could also infect at the eyes instead.
ClickClack
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Sorry, I don't buy that most people who are getting this are getting coughed or sneezed on directly.
Hincemm
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ClickClack said:

Sorry, I don't buy that most people who are getting this are getting coughed or sneezed on directly.
I don't think the CDC puts out that guidance for grins, and I think are rather well-qualified to take that poistion.

How do you think the spread is occurring?
Convincingly
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It's the 5G cell towers, don't go near cell towers and you'll be fine
ClickClack
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Hincemm said:

ClickClack said:

Sorry, I don't buy that most people who are getting this are getting coughed or sneezed on directly.
I don't think the CDC puts out that guidance for grins, and I think are rather well-qualified to take that poistion.

How do you think the spread is occurring?

The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.
  • Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).

I think it's through contact between people in close contact. Shaking their hand, touching something they touched, etc.

Diyala Nick
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There were some virologists on Twitter discussing this exact idea. Their take was less on the point of infection and more around the viral load at the time of infection. It is not without precedence - there is literature on a chickenpox outbreak in Africa wherein being infected by a severely infected person led to a more severe infection in the newly infected (I don't believe it was a mutated strain issue, but actual viral load).

If true, this would portend a higher risk for health care workers and perhaps explain a lot of the mild and asymptomatic cases.
eric76
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I just remembered that anthrax is another disease with multiple forms and the inhaled form of anthrax is considered to be the most dangerous.
JTA1029
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Proof enough to me.

Looks like time to start licking doorknobs!
eric76
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JTA1029 said:

Proof enough to me.

Looks like time to start licking doorknobs!
Neither plague nor anthrax comes from viruses.

I wonder if there are any viral diseases that are worse when inhaled than by other means.

Hantavirus is normally inhaled (dried mouse urine) and is quite dangerous, but it can also be acquired by being bitten. I have no idea if there is any difference in mortality for these two methods of acquiring hantavirus.
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