i know the little league world series is coming up. any of you guys have any teams that are looking good? i know teams are still playing in texas, just wanted to get a heads up.

thanks

gig'em aggies

I played on the last Texas team (Houston Westbury)to win the LL world series. That was in 1966. I think Texas teams have come close since but haven't been able to win it.

Spring always seems to have a good team. We got a local team a lot of people are high on; state tournament starts on teh 23rd.

The best team from Texas the past few years has clearly been that Lamar Little League team from the Richmond area. I believe they got as far as the US Championship game.

I thought the best team was from the Waco area, maybe it was a few years ago.

"The Aggies and Coach Fran are OWNED by the Texas Longhorns and Coach Mack Brown!"
Regarding the sig line http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=6&topic_id=388284

I dont remember a team from Waco, I know that their softball team has won like 8 champinships in a row, they have some kind of dynasty over there.....Richmond, Bellaire, Spring have all had teams in the LLWS the last 10 years.

Ditka, where is that state tourney going to be played? I may have to check it out.

Thanks to Select baseball, LL talent has gone way down... especially in the Houston area. Most of the "baseball freaks" have left LL and gone strictly Select.

My 10 yr old has played on the same select team for the past 3 years and just returned from the 10 yr old World Series in Mississippi... finished 5th out of 72 teams from around the nation. After watching my son's team and then going back and watching 10 yr old LL games, it is NIGHT and DAY!

This 10 yr old team from the Woodlands right here:
http://www.usssa.com/sports/Team3.asp?TeamID=552597
could probably beat most 12 yr old LL teams! They mostly play 11 yr old Select teams and win those tourneys.



[This message has been edited by Lefty Ag '89 (edited 7/20/2005 10:02a).]

Last year it was LL team from Ft. Worth that did so well, wasn't it?

I agree on the LL being a lot lower level of play. If you are used to watching LL ball, just go take in a Super Series 9 or 10U tournament, you'll be amazed. Same holds true for LL softball, ASA is a lot more advanced. LL still has it's place I guess, as a "fun" league for kids who either can't or don't want to be that serious about baseball/softball.

I've coached both LL and select. To say that a 10 year old select team could beat most 12 year old teams is stretching it a bit. There's a big difference in mature 12's vs. mature 10's.

Lefty, youve noticed that as well? In the houston area that is very apparent. The talent at "little league" is extremely weak compared to the kids that play on select teams, baseball usa and spring klein. It really is night and day.

Select ball for the young ones took off when Jax Grill Jaybirds won the Pee Wee Reese World Series in Puerto Rico. I believe it was 1996. Here are some of the players I remember off the top of my head, this was a hell of a team:

Matt Ueckert (Rice/A&M)
Chris Young (White Sox)
James Loney (Dodgers)
Isa Garcia (SHSTU/UH)
Matt Farrington (UH)
Josh Bowen (Lamar)
Aaron Rodriguez (UTSA)
Brandon Kroger (UTSA)

I believe Ryan Lamotta was on that Jaybirds team back in the day. But them winning it didn't jumpstart select baseball.

Select baseball is a scam. You have these massive baseball complexes, like Baseeball USA, that charge exorbiant amounts of money to teach, coach, train, your child to be some basebal machine at the age of 9.

The whole concept of a 10-and-under world series is such a joke. Keep your kids in LL and they will be fine. And if around 14 they show some serious promise, think about getting them on a quality select team. Select basebal is ruining LL, which is such a great institution in this country. Parents who pay 50 bucks for a hour for a hitting lesson for their 10 yeard old is a fool.

The game is suppose to be fun, so let's keep it fun instead of always trying to gain that competitive edge. The reality is that genetics will play a considerable role on the success of your child, not pitching lessons from some minor league scrub at Baseball USA. Look at that Spring/Northwest 45 team and see how many are still playing? If you push your kids into select baseball that early, the likelihood is that your kid will push his way out by hs. I have found that the kids who played select baseball later ended up playing longer and having more fun. After all, baseball is suppose to be fun, right?

Hey Zeus,
You think it is a "scam"? Has your son played select/tournament ball? I doubt it.
You think all parents push? No, they don't. My son has been a baseball freak since he was 2 and can't get enough. The pushing is from his side. He likes to compete with kids with the same skills, he enjoys competing with like-skilled people. He started in LL and never threw hard to any of the other players... frankly because a lot of them can't catch and he said he thought he was going to hurt them. He joins up on a local select team and blossomed. All these kids humm the ball and can catch anything and everthing so he opened up.
As far as "paying" for training, that's an individual decision. We just have a couple of dads coaching, some with high school/college coaching experience. The kids have been playing together for a couple of years and the families have become a family.
And you say the 10 yr old WS is a joke? You should have seen the week we just had in Southaven, MS. What a memorable week for all the kids and families. Competing with some great teams from all over the US.

You say Select is ruining LL. Well, yes it is. But now you've got something better to work with. Kids that want to compete and get better coaching can move on, the not-so-into-it kids can play LL or YMCA.

And Baseball USA has nothing to do with it. That's the great thing about Select/tournament teams... you run your own organization, get to decide everything, design your own uni's, pick your parents... err, kids, decide how often to play, practice etc.

Trust me, if my son said he wanted to go back to LL I'd do it in a heartbeat, it would be A LOT less work for mom&dad... but he loves it, as do the other 9 kids on his team.


[This message has been edited by Lefty Ag '89 (edited 7/20/2005 12:56p).]

I hear Victoria has a team that is flat out incredible. Won their first few games in the tournament by over 20 runs each.

quote:

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Select basebal is ruining LL

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Little leagues lack of any kind of talent is ruining itself. Kids are playing select baseball and traveling during the summer because they are wanting to be playing and competeing on another level...the highest level.

The money you pay to your select team has nothing to do with the "coaching" aspect of things. That pays for uniforms, hats and traveling expenses. People and families do it, because these kids learn how to compete at a high level. Yes its a game, and yes its supposed to be fun, but for kids that are extremely competitve and want to get better year around thats the reason they do it.

quote:

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If you push your kids into select baseball that early, the likelihood is that your kid will push his way out by hs. I have found that the kids who played select baseball later ended up playing longer and having more fun. After all, baseball is suppose to be fun, right?

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How can you possibly say this? Every kid that plays D-1 in the state of Texas played on a legit select team, probably through out their careers.....The ones that did not make it probably were'nt that good.


[This message has been edited by AgBoyTx (edited 7/20/2005 1:21p).]

If don't realize that select baseball is ruining LL, you obviously don't pay attention to what is going on in youth baseball. Select baseball programs make a lot promises that it can't keep. Just bc your 10 year old son makes it to the USAAA world series in steamboat springs, colorado gives him no advantage when he is 16 years old. The amount of money spent does have a correlation with the type of coaching. How much does it cost to play for the Dallas Mustangs? These programs are good for the older kids because they get good experience and especially exposure, but no scout is coming to watch the 10 year old world series. The reason the talent isn't in LL is directly linked to the "Business" that is select baseball. It is a business, and a very profitable one at that.

AgtxBoy, if you read the remark carefully, I have no problem with kids are 14-15 getting into select ball. I think it can be quite beneficial for development and exposure. My comments were directed at the ages of 9-13.

Profitable? For whom? For basically the same fields that house Little League. We play Cy-Fair, we play Spring-Klein, we play Katy. The tournament fees go to those groups! Tournaments cost roughly $400 and you get 3-6 games, $40 per kid.
Who is making the promises? Our coach just wanted to create his own team and recruit good kids/good parents and have fun building a team that could compete with the same. Nothing about "promises." Nobody on our team is playing because they hope to get "noticed!" come on! Nobody on our team travelled to Southaven, MS last week hoping to get noticed by a scout, geeez!

Here is the bottom line: These kids love baseball, they eat/sleep/drink it. Most of them were being "held back" in the less-competitive organizations (ie LL). I believe no child should be left behind, but ALSO believe no child should be held from their potential.

If they would have had select ball when I was 10, I would have thought I was in paradise!


[This message has been edited by Lefty Ag '89 (edited 7/20/2005 2:08p).]

[This message has been edited by Lefty Ag '89 (edited 7/20/2005 2:09p).]

OK here is what I saw when I watched a 9-10 yr old little league game recently... I saw 2 different pitchers walk about 6 batters each, the ball goes to the backstop every other pitch. I saw throws to first dropped. I saw no leading off the bases. I saw easy fly balls not even touched by the outfielders.

Here is what I saw in my son's game last Saturday night in the World Series against the #1 team out of Alabama (huge kids all over 5' tall): I saw our pitcher pitch around their top hitter (4 pitches around the strike zone) so he could load the bases. I saw our infield play up. I saw the next batter ground into an inning-ending 5-2-3 perfectly executed double-play and our kids go crazy with excitement. I saw a perfectly executed 6-4-3 double play that ended our inning. I saw my son drive a deep fly ball to the gap to the left-center fence only to see the center fielder catch it running over his shoulder. I saw a 6 inning final score of 1-0.... all that after already having played two games earlier in the day!!!!

It's about playing the HERE and NOW, not hoping for the future! It's about the love of the game, the competition, teammates, etc. Most of these kids won't be playing high school ball, but they are sure enjoying the sport TODAY!


[This message has been edited by Lefty Ag '89 (edited 7/20/2005 2:21p).]

A couple of interesting links related to the thread topic.


http://eteamz.active.com/txeastll/news/


http://www.unpage.org/texas/

I know for a fact there are good select programs that exist around the state and across America. I was involved in select baseball so i have some insight on this issue.

The reality is that it can be quite draining. The cost for some of these team is outrageous. The travel is bad during the summer months. I remember my brothers and sister getting dragged to these tournaments all over the state. I am sure they had so much fun. Too many games are played. I have heard 9-10 year old playing like 60-70 games in the summer months with a tourney every weekend in some other city. This is ridiculous.

I think select baseball is a good idea for the older kis around 14-15. This is when the kid is growing into his body and he could really benefit from some quality training. They have some kids lifting at age 11-12 to get stronger. They have 10 year old trying to throw big, looping curve balls. Has anyone seen the meteoric rise in tommy john surgery's in the youth lately? They are skyrocketing.

A nine year old doesn't need to be traveling every weekend to some tournament across the state. Your child can really get good from not being on a select team a such a young age. A lot of soft toss and tee work at home goes a very long way.

A yes, select baseball is a business. I have seen some numbers on tournaments that are hosted around the state. The people that host these tournaments are trying to make money. These private instructors charging you $50/hr for your 10 year old son to hit soft toss are making money.

I am just writing this to people who are thinking that select baseball is so great. There are some positive things that come out of it like team work, improved skills, and fun of course. But there are a lot of downsides that people tend to overlook. I had a great time in select baseball, I really did. But there was so much bs that it really wasn't worth it.

Lefty, do you not expect those types of follies on a BB field when you have a group of 100 kids that are drafted by 10 teams as opposed to having access to those same 100 kids and being able to hand "select" a team out of that same group?

How about taking a LL All Star team of 9 yr olds and playing against a Select Team of 9yr olds. In general, not much difference. I know, my son plays LL and his regular season team has won the league championship the last 2 yrs but against a Select Team, I would give them zero chance for success. Let his All Star team play the same select team, I think things are just about dead even. This is what his select team is (his age groups All Star squad) and they have much success in tournaments all thoughout Houston and East Texas.

So to say the level of LL is falling is not a very accurate statement. Apples and Oranges in comparison.

Select is great, he enjoys the select season much more than the LL season from the baseball standpoint, but enjoys playing LL baseball with his school/classmates from the social standpoint. Room for both from what I have experienced.

At end of the day, it is however all about exactly what you stated

"It's about the love of the game, the competition, teammates, etc. Most of these kids won't be playing high school ball, but they are sure enjoying the sport TODAY!"

Let the kids play baseball at whatever level they wish!

I'm with Zeus on this one. Youth baseball isn't about 9 and 10 year olds being able to execute a perfect 6-4-3 double play. It's about having fun with your friends from school and giving everyone a chance to play, not recruiting an all-star team of kids whose parents can afford to pay for them play select ball. So what if your kid is way better than the rest of his buddies? If he's that good, then his time will come when he hits 13-14 years old when these kids are more physically mature.

I was never that great at baseball and I quit when I was in 8th grade after a year of select ball, but I do have some experience in basketball. I played YMCA and Boys Club bball until I was in about the 8th grade and I was a lot better than most of the people I played with and against, but it was still a ton of fun. Then I started getting into more competitive leagues with a select team in BCI and AAU tournaments when I was ready for it at about 14 years old and I think I was better off for it. I never felt like I was being held back by my competition or like I wasn't having as much fun as I should be. I was just enjoying getting to play.

"Lefty, do you not expect those types of follies on a BB field when you have a group of 100 kids that are drafted by 10 teams as opposed to having access to those same 100 kids and being able to hand "select" a team out of that same group?"

Oh of course, that is the reason my son prefers Select over LL. Every player on his team is just about equal. He doesn't have to worry about a 10-walk inning, or a 10 passed ball inning or worry about throwing as hard as he can to another kid.

As far as All-Stars being equal. In some cases sure. But it depends what level of select you're at. We play the AAA level (there is A, AA, AAA and Major) and have turned down several All-Star kids. Maybe 8 of our kids couldn't make it on a Major team. I'd say most AAA and all Major teams would beat the LL All Star teams (in general).

And Zeus, yes it is a lot of money, however we do a ton of fundraising to pay for most of our tournament expenses (ie working Texan football games, Astro games, etc.)

"giving everyone a chance to play"

That's why Select isn't for everyone. You've got LL and YMCA to let everyone play. For those kids wanting more, higher competition...which translates to more fun (for those competitive kids), there is Select. 9-10 yr old baseball is also about learning and improving.. we get to pick our coach (rather than Dad/coach pick your kid). It's the luck of the draw with LL. If they didn't have Select, then sure, my son would love to play LL and wouldn't know any better, but since it is available...
And yes it is about playing with friends. These kids are together 10 months a year and get to know other teams in the area that stay together as well, builing up rivalries. Right now we are taking a break from baseball... some playing football/basketball, some just taking a break.

So I agree, it's not for everyone. Definitely not. That's why I don't have my son in "select basketball" ... he isn't cut out for that and does not love basketball as much.

On a side note, at 9-10-11, I would have LOVED to play year round Select baseball if they had it... as it was, I was too busy playing Cricket,Rugby, and Football(aka soccer) (I grew up in London).


[This message has been edited by Lefty Ag '89 (edited 7/20/2005 6:35p).]

Lefty, I think we are agreeing for the most part, my point is that LL and Select are non comparable, thats it.

Select you are not limited to a geographical pool of talent as opposed to LL you have territorial boundaries. Hence the overall talent difference. Times have changed and LL has lost its luster without doubt. However, I would not have changed my LL experience one bit, well maybe I wished we would have one in Waco at the state tournament as 12 yr olds.

For me, all I want is my sons to enjoy baseball and learn all the lifes lessons possible on a baseball diamond. Nothing more nothing less. My Dad had this saying, "The most trouble you could possibly get into on a baseball field could be remedied with an "azz whopin". I think it was his way of saying idle minds have evil ways.

I tend to side with Zeus on this one. My son has played both and I've coached both in Austin.

One thing about the increase in popularity of select league and fall baseball...Tommy John surgeries are becomming more common with younger kids because of all these teams that play year-round.

Bellaire Little League went to Little League World Series in 1990, wining the United States championship, but losing to a team from China for the whole enchilada.

http://www.littleleague.org/series/history/divisions/llbbhistory.htm

quote:

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One thing about the increase in popularity of select league and fall baseball...Tommy John surgeries are becomming more common with younger kids because of all these teams that play year-round.

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Not true. Tommy John surgeries are becoming more common (around 1200 last year to "youth" aged kids) with younger kids because of more throwing/pitching with improper mechanics. One of the most damaging pitches I see young kids throw is a curve from an improper arm slot. (The three common pitches I see at the Super Series tournaments I take my team to are the fastball, change, and curve.) The advent of the internet for instruction, and the abundance of reasonably priced digital video recorders should allow most youth coaches the resources necessary to help eliminate this type of problem. The bottomline is, many of these large tournaments require a team to play a lot of innings in a relatively short time frame, and it is imperative for teams to have 7-9 kids who can be relied upon to throw strikes. If pitch counts are monitored, plenty of rest between starts is enforced, and proper mechanics are taught/emphasized, I don't believe the added amount of pitches thrown is a problem. I believe this is more likely to occur in a 'select" type program than LL.

The thought or belief that the added emphasis of year round select baseball causes more burnout at the younger ages does not hold much water with me either. If baseball is truly the childs passion I believe they will see it through as far as their talent allows them to go. If it is not their passion, they will burnout of it whether they are 8 or 18. In the meantime those kids are learning valuable life lessons in the form of the benefits of hard work, perserverance, teamwork, self-discipline, focus, etc.

I believe it is my responsibility as a father (3 sons) to encourage my sons to be the best they can be at whatever they choose. Mine, to this point, have shown a passion for baseball and I want to provide them the best opportunity I can to pursue that passion as far as their talent allows. My wife and I both earned athletic scholarships to attend college, we both participated in "select" year round programs in our sports of choice (though they really weren't called that then), and neither of us would trade those life experiences and the relationships developed through them, for anything.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/health/0507/19/A01-251329.htm

I stand by what I said.

I don't have a problem with my son playing year-round if he wants to. What it takes is parents like you and me who know when to pull back and do what's best for the kids and their health...whether or not the kids like it.

austx, I totally agree. That article was just echoing the epidemic that is occuring in this country.

There is an increased risk of arm problems with pitch counts running this high. If a kid is pitching twice in a weekend as a starter, his pitch count is going to be really high, prolly around at least 150 pitches. As the kid tires his mechanics will be the first to go even if he knows, which is doubtful, the proper mechanics of pitching.

You can't expect a 10 year old to stay balanced for a 150 pitches when very few hs pitchers could do this. He will open his front side too soon and his arm will drag through the delivery. He won't get on top of his "curveball," or whatever he calls that ball that just spins up there and maybe breaks a inch.

The reality is that very few so called "select" coaches teach proper mechanics. This exposes the young pitcher to serious flaws and serious stress on the ligaments of the elbow and shoulder. The young arm hasn't grown enough even though the body may have. The young arm is very delicate and needs great attention and very few coaches on these teams realize this. I have seen it so many times with young, very good pitchers getting overworked and then having career limiting arm surgery.

This is only going to get worse if nothing is done. And the comment of living vicariously through their child is sadly very true despite what parents will tell you. I am just glad I didn't have this pressure while I was growing up or I would've quit at a very young age.

It seems that article is basically saying the same thing I was, or at least I would have if I had better typing skills and/or more time. TJ is being done more and more, younger and younger. I just wish more information was readily available, and more importantly, more often utilized on this subject.

I believe the more often a kid pitches the stronger he gets...as long as its not overdone.
I noticed Dr. Andrews never says, or at least the author of the article never says, what exactly defines overuse. My own personal, general, rule is along the lines of 30/60/90 for kids 12U. 30 Pitches per inning, 60 per game, 90 per week. If any of those numbers are reached, a new pitcher comes in. Those are maximum numbers. If I have a younger, weaker, less refined, etc., kid pitching I will typically pull them around 20-25 pitches. I have 10 kids on my 12U team and they all pitch, at least some. I allow only three to throw a curveball because they show me a consistent, mechanically sound motion and even then it is used as an out pitch when we have setup the hitters eye level and/or bat speed and think we have him trapped. One of the big problems I have with LL is the 6 innings pitched rule. The overuse threshold is not only reached when a certain number of pitches are thrown, but WHEN they are thrown. 60 Pitches thrown 15 per inning is much less damaging to a young arm than 30 in two innings. A kid could throw 180 pitches, 30 an inning, be legal with LL and calling Dr. Andrews the next day!

Anyway, it just struck a nerve...

BTW, I enjoyed the article, thanks for linking it.

My only issue is exactly how many of these 10U kids playing select ball actually chose to play select ball as opposed to LL.

Two options...

1) They didn't choose...Soccer Mom and Dad did.

2) They did choose, because it's been presented to them by their peers (from their parents) that they're better than the LL kids.

I just want those select teams to quit panhandling on Saturdays at busy intersections.

Haven't they ever heard of fundraising? What, exactly, does begging for money from motorists teach the kids?