If you had told me at the start of the season that Nathan Dettmer would not notch a single SEC win, I would have laughed you out of the room.

Yet here we are.

The regression of (or at best lack of improvement by) all pitchers on the 2022 roster is absolutely stunning, and clearly the reason we won't go to the post season (which I thought impossible coming into this year).

Nate Yeskie gets a one season pass, doesn't he? But my God this has been worst case awful.

I'd take it a step farther....did any pitcher on staff not take a step backwards? Forget about progress, I'd take the Will Johnston, Dettmer, Cortez, Rudis, etc from last year over what we've seen this year. It's as if we got content and didn't pick up a baseball after last season which we know didn't happen so makes you wonder...

The problem has to be more than the new strike zone and poor framing.

No, I can't think of a single pitcher from last year's roster that improved. In fact, nearly all have performed worse. That's either on the coach(es) or maybe those players just over-performed last year. I don't know - that's why Yeskie should be given a pass and see what happens next season. Plus, he has proven success in the past.

Pitching obviously has been the majority of the reason why we're in the position we are right now. Another strong contributor is under-performance by players we expected to be solid staples in the lineup. I'm not going to name names but I'm sure people can guess who I'm talking about. Also, we have really, really missed Troy Claunch. He was a rock behind the dish, at the plate, and in the dugout.

Now.....bright spots. We have some really good freshman arms. They've actually been one of the very few glimmers of hope this season. I really like Lamkin and Sdao. Jace is the real deal. Dude is going to rake for the next couple of seasons here. Kent also showed signs of being really good. I wish he would have been given more opportunities, though. Haas was a GREAT add and I hope he has a solid year again next season at SS.

Not having Troy Claunch behind the dish (or a C of his caliber) hurt this staff, doubtless.

And the tighter zone hurt.

And pitching across the SEC was worse.

But you're right, our staff is 13th out of 14th and with so much experience returning there is no excuse.

Gonna be a TENSE end of season meeting between Yeskie and Schloss. How does a pitching coach justify himself to his boss after a season like this?

Adam87inSA said:

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Not having Troy Claunch behind the dish (or a C of his caliber) hurt this staff, doubtless.

And the tighter zone hurt.

And pitching across the SEC was worse.

But you're right, our staff is 13th out of 14th and with so much experience returning there is no excuse.

Gonna be a TENSE end of season meeting between Yeskie and Schloss. How does a pitching coach justify himself to his boss after a season like this?

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This is certainly true. Probably not issue #1 for this staff but a big problem. Kaufer has been getting really animated with the pitchers and in his meetings on the mound. I think he's trying a little too hard to be that leader at the catcher position when he's basically still a high school kid. I'd rather him just catch the balls that should be caught and block the balls that should be blocked and leave the leadership part with our pitchers up to some upperclassmen on the team. He is going to be good but he shouldn't have to be that leader overnight at his age.

I'm sorry this is a garbage take…


It's the catchers job to control the pace of the game and pseudo-psychologists by manage the pitchers emotions … As far as him catching the ball he should catch and blocking the balls he should block… As you pointed out he's a high school kid playing a college game and doing a pretty decent job of it..



Since he's return to the starting role he's actually done a pretty good job behind the dish

Adam87inSA said:

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Not having Troy Claunch behind the dish (or a C of his caliber) hurt this staff, doubtless.

And the tighter zone hurt.

And pitching across the SEC was worse.

But you're right, our staff is 13th out of 14th and with so much experience returning there is no excuse.

Gonna be a TENSE end of season meeting between Yeskie and Schloss. How does a pitching coach justify himself to his boss after a season like this?

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It's going to be a TENSE end of season meeting between every potential returning player on this roster and Schloss. I love all the guys on this team, but I'm expecting to see a 60-70% roster turnover between now and fall ball.

I think we're seeing what losing Coach Childress cost us. The man could find and develop pitchers. Most of the guys we're talking about here are guys that Childress recruited, and I'm sure he saw something in them he thought he could develop. He had a plan for them, but now he's gone and that plan and probably some trust with him.

We were going to have struggles with a coaching change. They were there last year, but hidden a bit by our gritty team who won in spite of it. We're seeing this year what we should have reasonably expected to see last year, and it just hurts a little more coming off the heels of a season like that.

R.C. doesn't get the credit he deserves as a pitching coach. How many pitchers does he have in MLB right now?

EDIT - My answer (six) from https://texags.com/forums/8/topics/3364727

Quote:

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Active Major League Baseball Players

Martin, Corbin (2015-2017) - Arizona Diamondbacks - MLB/MiLB/BR/BC
Miller, Bryce (2019-2021) - Seattle Mariners - MLB/MiLB/BR/BC
Minter, A.J. (2013-2015) - Atlanta Braves - MLB/MiLB/BR/BC
Raley, Brooks (2008-2009) - New York Mets - MLB/MiLB/BR/BC/FL
Shewmake, Braden (2017-2019) - Atlanta Braves - MLB/MiLB/BR/BC (shortstop)
Stripling, Ross (2009-2012) - San Francisco Giants - MLB/MiLB/BR/BC
Wacha, Michael (2010-2012) - San Diego Padres - MLB/MiLB/BR/BC

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Honestly, last season wasn't necessarily pretty! We had good upperclassmen and timely hitting to offset it. But they were still better than this year, for sure.

regarding Yeskie...

he was a great pitching coach in the Pac-12

but the Pac-12 is not the SEC -- not even close

also...for the downgrade of defense at the catcher position...

the defense at shortstop -- the most important defensive position on the field -- has been vastly upgraded from 2022 to 2023

and here's something that got overlooked...

Moo Menefee

in 2021 under Childress ----> 3.00 ERA

in 2022 under Yeskie --------> 5.60 ERA

TxA&Mhunter said:

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I'm sorry this is a garbage take…


It's the catchers job to control the pace of the game and pseudo-psychologists by manage the pitchers emotions … As far as him catching the ball he should catch and blocking the balls he should block… As you pointed out he's a high school kid playing a college game and doing a pretty decent job of it..



Since he's return to the starting role he's actually done a pretty good job behind the dish

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A great catcher can make an average pitcher be SOOOO much better.
Pace yes, emotions yes.
But balls/strikes go way beyond catching the balls he should catch. Framing those catches and drifting at impact are an art form. The dialogue w the home plate ump is also an art form.
And blocking balls he should block is just a prerequisite for the position. Great ones can stop the balls that others can't.

Not having a guy like Claunch is a huge impact.

I totally agree, the guy from cinci was suppose to be the answer… But the kid we have is far more advanced than any other 18-year-old I've seen in a while…

You would imagine with all that pitching and talent he would've won a game or two in Omaha??

We should have had a nice core of returning pitchers, to build a pitching staff.

Dettmer (A&M), Cortez (A&M), Lambert (USC) and Wansing (Purdue) were all productive / contributing / functional D-1 pitchers in 2022, all regressed in 2023.

What happened with Rudis? He was very good, in a number of key situations in 2022, why didn't he pitch more?

Yeskie may have a good track record, but he has been at A&M two years now, has had two brutal pitching staffs, hard to believe the 2023 staff was worse than 2022.

RR

when yeskie was hired there were better informed people here than me talking about how vastly different (more modern i believe) his methods were to childress. The way it was explained, there was no reason to believe it wouldnt be positive. but players don't always react the same to changes in coaching styles so I get why players that signed up to play for an old school, blue collar guy like childress may not adjust as well to our new coach.

Whats troubling is a guy like Lambert (who this staff wanted and brought in) was really effective last year, pretty much southern cals best picher. Comes in this fall and talks about how Yeskie basically overhauled his mechanics. and look at him now

Gyles Marrett said:

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Adam87inSA said:

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Not having Troy Claunch behind the dish (or a C of his caliber) hurt this staff, doubtless.

And the tighter zone hurt.

And pitching across the SEC was worse.

But you're right, our staff is 13th out of 14th and with so much experience returning there is no excuse.

Gonna be a TENSE end of season meeting between Yeskie and Schloss. How does a pitching coach justify himself to his boss after a season like this?

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This is certainly true. Probably not issue #1 for this staff but a big problem. Kaufer has been getting really animated with the pitchers and in his meetings on the mound. I think he's trying a little too hard to be that leader at the catcher position when he's basically still a high school kid. I'd rather him just catch the balls that should be caught and block the balls that should be blocked and leave the leadership part with our pitchers up to some upperclassmen on the team. He is going to be good but he shouldn't have to be that leader overnight at his age.

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That's been my favorite part with Kaufer. We don't seem to have any leaders, so a 17 yr old that should still be in HS stepped up. You can't teach that. I think he will be great in an Aggie uniform.

To answer OP's question - NO!

MMantle said:

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We should have had a nice core of returning pitchers, to build a pitching staff.

Dettmer (A&M), Cortez (A&M), Lambert (USC) and Wansing (Purdue) were all productive / contributing / functional D-1 pitchers in 2022, all regressed in 2023.

What happened with Rudis? He was very good, in a number of key situations in 2022, why didn't he pitch more?

Yeskie may have a good track record, but he has been at A&M two years now, has had two brutal pitching staffs, hard to believe the 2023 staff was worse than 2022.

RR

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I agree with a lot of this

I dont think Dettmer was that great but showed his stiff and was streaky somewhat

Cortez has Friday caliber stuff but control issues

Lambert and Wansing didnt pitch against SEC pitching but we have had a few players pitchers and non pitchers that needed for game time this season

ensign_beedrill said:

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I think we're seeing what losing Coach Childress cost us. The man could find and develop pitchers. Most of the guys we're talking about here are guys that Childress recruited, and I'm sure he saw something in them he thought he could develop. He had a plan for them, but now he's gone and that plan and probably some trust with him.

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Or Childress failed to recruit good pitchers in this case.

The senior pitcher from Orangefield was yanked in the second inning last night. Maybe he'll mow em down tomorrow.

Cortez threw 44 innings last season and walked 13 batters. He was throwing 3 pitches for strikes. The only thing he needed to change, imo, was pitch sequencing. He's still throwing 100 mph, but he can barely land his fastball. I wouldn't want to be the coach who changed anything and caused that to happen.

PhatMack19 said:

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Gyles Marrett said:

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Adam87inSA said:

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Not having Troy Claunch behind the dish (or a C of his caliber) hurt this staff, doubtless.

And the tighter zone hurt.

And pitching across the SEC was worse.

But you're right, our staff is 13th out of 14th and with so much experience returning there is no excuse.

Gonna be a TENSE end of season meeting between Yeskie and Schloss. How does a pitching coach justify himself to his boss after a season like this?

---

This is certainly true. Probably not issue #1 for this staff but a big problem. Kaufer has been getting really animated with the pitchers and in his meetings on the mound. I think he's trying a little too hard to be that leader at the catcher position when he's basically still a high school kid. I'd rather him just catch the balls that should be caught and block the balls that should be blocked and leave the leadership part with our pitchers up to some upperclassmen on the team. He is going to be good but he shouldn't have to be that leader overnight at his age.

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Kaufer doesn't catch or frame pitches all that well, hits a buck fifty, is very slow, and seems to be lost most of the time I doubt Kaufer's animation has much effect on the pitching staff. It's the end of season so the high school stuff is over.

That's been my favorite part with Kaufer. We don't seem to have any leaders, so a 17 yr old that should still be in HS stepped up. You can't teach that. I think he will be great in an Aggie uniform.

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TxA&Mhunter said:

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You would imagine with all that pitching and talent he would've won a game or two in Omaha??

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Useless take is useless. Nobody said Childress was a better head coach than Schloss but to this point you can't debate who was better at building a pitching staff.

I'm shocked, shocked that we start a hagiography of a coach we all gathered like a mob to fire two years ago about now.

We went from the strongest position on the team being the catcher last year to the absolute worst position on the team being the catcher this year. Worst in the SEC and maybe worst in the country. That makes an unbelievable difference in your pitching staff!

Our performance as a staff is hard to understand, it's almost as if lack of command is contagious virus. I'm not sure what the answer is, but Schloss appears to have not slept all season, so I guarantee you he's been thinking about it a lot. Some changes will be required. Not sure if that includes Yeskie, but as others have stated, there were some red flags last season as well.

There will be a lot of losses in the field in the offseason too, which may mean a tough year next year as well.

agforlife97 said:

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Our performance as a staff is hard to understand, it's almost as if lack of command is contagious virus. I'm not sure what the answer is, but Schloss appears to have not slept all season, so I guarantee you he's been thinking about it a lot. Some changes will be required. Not sure if that includes Yeskie, but as others have stated, there were some red flags last season as well.

There will be a lot of losses in the field in the offseason too, which may mean a tough year next year as well.

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There is no doubt that command is contagious. It's like FT shooting. As soon as you start to think about it, troubles multiply. That's why this team could still make a deep post-season run. A clean slate. The arm talent and the offensive ability are there. You might be surprised what this team could do if the switch got flipped.

To reset with less self-loathing and player bashing - we went from a senior, college World Series experienced catcher to a high school senior.

There is zero doubt to me this is the #1 reason for the pitching issues.

Yeskie will recruit his guys and as Kaufer matures as well, this staff will get much better. The offense last year covered a world of sins.

Any team with 2 front line starters is dangerous in the post-season. By the same token, any team that throws strikes and knocks the cover off the ball is dangerous. Every team has flaws. Our team can still outscore any of them on a good day.

So just to get this right… we can bash the pitchers and pitching coach, just not the catcher…. Got ya…

Just so I'm clear…. You are judging it off two years, and with really only one Recruiting class? And want to talk about a useless takes….