Best move Astros made is getting rid of Wagner. We all known he would have shut down the cubs tonight, but now my cubs are up 2 in the bot of the ninth. Just hope they can hold it.

If they had kept Wagner they wouldnt have gotten Pettite or Clemens. Personally I will take two dominant starters over one dominant closer. Well that is if Pettite can get/stay healthy. To be fair to Dotel, that first hit in the 9th should have been caught by Berkman.

Dotel pissed me off too, but don't forget that the Astros only scored 2 runs and left 12 runner on base (8 in scoring position).

I dislike the Astros more than most, GO RANGERS, but to be fair to Berkman, that was not an easy catch.

Now Eric Young's play in the bottom of the 11th should have been made

[This message has been edited by Aggie_Eric98 (edited 6/16/2004 8:24a).]

Yeah, how dare Wagner even think of criticising mgmt. over the lack of late season moves last year--what was he thinking?
After all, the Cubs made moves, and what did that get them?

Oh yeah, the division crown.

You could see the Dotel meltdown coming a mile away.
Say what you want, but a record of 0-4 is not what you want from your closer.
And while lots of fault can be found with the offense, Dotel has created 0-4 on his own.

"Dotel has created 0-4 on his own."

You may want to re-review the team's shrinking batting average before you put the entire blame on him.

the Astros were 2-16 with runners in scoring postion last night. The offense lost this game pure and simple.

I wish Jimy had gone Hal Lanier on Hidalgo and Biggio after they both watched third strikes with a man on third in the 8th.

GO CUBS!

No Sir, I don't pu this on Dotel. I put on Williams.

He pitched Dotel 46 pitches just two nights ago. He has been struggling getting comand early.

I would of stayed with Miller throguh the seventh. After he pulled Miller I would of went with Lidge. He had great command and only pitched 10 pitches in the eight. I would of come back with him.

I knew Willams was going with Dotel and in this situation I feel he was setting Dotel up to fail. Bad, Bad Bad manegerial decision.

I agree with Justice 100%. The strength of the team is starting pitching. Williams is pulling it thinking to have them long haul. Now he is frying a good but not great bull pen.

On top of that, If he comes back with Lidge in the 9th. He could have Dotel today and give Lidge a day off. Now he has burned them both.

I just deplore the way Williams handles pitchers. Position players seem to love him but I have heard many pitchers talk well about him. They pitch under pressure, he makes them tight. Only Clemons and Petite have some leeway with him.

I think Williams is a big part of the problem with the Stros now. Pitching is the strenght and he is mishandling the strenght and it's effecting the whole team.



"only one thing is important!"

No mention of Berkman here? His droping of the fly ball created the whole inning. Without it, Astros win 2-1 and Dotel gets the save. Everything Dotel gave up last night was unearned.

Gap-
I dont think it is fare to say that dotel for sure gets the save without berkmans error (but I do get your point in that he would have been 1 out closer to a save). He still had to face Alou and Ramirez. Give he did get alou to fly out but ramirez still got a single and who knows what would have happened next.

A great closer can make up for mistakes (like Berkmans). Dotel is not a great closer yet but, let remember, this is his first year to close. He has the stuff but his mental toughness is still in questions. I guess we'll have to wait and see how he does.

Astros have to pick it up soon or they will be out of it by August.

"Forgive your enemies, but remember their names" - JFK

Dotel has had a significant loss in velocity. Three years ago he was hitting 98. Now, he rarely hits 95. When you throw it over the middle of the plate, a 92/93 mph fastball is not that difficult for a pro to hit.

Ags #1,
Perhaps, it goes 1-2-3 for Dotel in the 9th. We will never know. Ramirez would have been swinging for the fences with two out and none on. It may have been quite the "easy" save.

I love how Lance Berkman normally plays the game, but he was a dog last night. I think he had 3 K's (2 with the bases loaded and less than 2 outs) and also hit into a DP. There is no excuse for the mental lapse he had in the 9th dropping the ball. He just wasn't into the game. That is how it is going right now for the Astros. The guy playing poorly always seems to be involved in the key play - whether at the plate or in the field.

I don't think the ball Berkman dropped was terribly routine....I saw it out of the corner of my eye on sportscenter and it looked like he was running back towards the LF wall and catching it over his shoulder

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Routine enough to get a E from the Astros scorekeeper...

quote:

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If they had kept Wagner they wouldnt have gotten Pettite or Clemens.

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That's what pisses me off. There's no reason why they couldn't have kept Wagner and gotten Pettite and Clemens. Just look at the attendance and merchandise sales. Pettite and Clemens have already paid for themselves. Drayton is just a cheap ******* who needs to sell the team to Tillman Fertitta who will do what it takes to make this team a winner.