your vote and why??????????????

Clemens. Numbers speak for themselves, and he has the career to back it up. Plus I am a homer.

I'm pretty sure Kenny Rogers was the first one to 8 wins this year. Hard to argue against results.

Please, please don't bring up Rogers... He's actually not even one of the best THIRTY pitchers in the MLB right now.

Are we talking this year, or best all time of active pitcher?

This year? Johnson, Schmidt or Glavine.

All time still active? Pedro, hands down.

mhayden,

Ranger bias clouding your judgment. Clemens's ERA is better than all 3 of those guys.

I agree about Pedro.

Hard choice. I'm going to throw out someone I'm a little biased for, thanks to fantasy baseball:

Mark Mulder! He's big, he's a lefty, and when the slider is working he blows through lineups. There is something to be said for a guy that doesn't need a bullpen.

Mark Prior when he gets healthy.

Welcome to the China Club

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Mark Mulder

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has nothing on Tim Hudson, who had another steller outing last night to bring his era 2.8

If Ranger bias was clouding my judgement, I wouldn't have just said Kenny Rogers isn't even one of the Top 30 pitchers in baseball this year.

Clemens has been good, no doubt... But not better than Johnson or Schmidt.

Mulder's been solid, but he's also gotten a whole lotta run support to produce that record.

Prior? Well... He may have some of the best stuff, but he hasn't put it all together yet.

There is no bias here, I said Rogers because he is leading the American League in victories. At this point, he actually has 9 which is 2 more than his nearest competition.

For what its worth, Sportsline has Rogers rated at #10 .

agree about Prior- once he stays healthy, he will dominate for a long time (this coming from an Astros fan). rogers 3.76 era isn't comparable to the 2.08 clemens has.
who does everybody think are the 5-7 best young and 4-6 best veteran pitchers?
here's my 2 cents...
young: prior, oswalt, holliday, wood, beckett, hudson, sheets
veteran: johnson, pedro, schilling, clemens
i base this on a combination of performance, talent, and potential for the young guys. for the veterans, i went more by their track record and tried to put pitchers who would fill the role of "who would you want pitching in a game 7".

Sportsline also has the Cincinatti Reds ranked #3 in their power rankings -- and one look at their runs-scored/runs-against shows that them being #3 (or even in the top 10) is pretty laughable.

Rogers hasn't even pitched well this year -- his record produced has been because of run support, nothing more.

actually, rogers has pitched well this year . . . probably the best he's pitched in 5 or 6 years. he's feeling good out there and throwing well.

still, he's not a top notch pitcher or even close. he does have 9 wins, but that's due to his run support. he's not an ace. but he is pitching well.

for this year, it's hard to argue against Clemens or Schmidt. i believe Mark Prior is the most talented pitched though currently in the game. and if he'd been healthy all year, i think he'd be the best

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Prior? Well... He may have some of the best stuff, but he hasn't put it all together yet

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What do you mean by this? Are you just saying long-term? He put it all together last year. He doesn't have to improve, he dominated last year.

Jason Schmidt had the best season last year. I'd like to say that Pedro was the best, but he gets hurt every year now.

If they put all of the players in a draft and had every team redraft their team once, then I think that Prior would be the first pitcher taken, possibly even the first player.

as of saturday night, clemens is #1 in the majors in wins and era and #2 in strikeouts. he's averaging over 10 k/9, has a whip of 1.12, and opponents are hitting .193 against him. in my opinion, that's pretty tough to argue against.

Chan-Ho Park. Oh wait, by "best" did you mean most pathetic excuse for a pitcher? If that's what you meant, then yes, Chan Ho is the best.

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actually, rogers has pitched well this year . . .

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Would you say the same thing if he was 3-7?

Jeff Weaver: 1.36 WHIP, .274 BAA -- 3-7 record
Kenny Rogers: 1.37 WHIP, .275 BAA -- 9-2 record

Weaver actually has pitched slightly better this year, yet is 3-7 while Kenny is 9-2... Biggest difference? Kenny gets almost 4 more runs of support than Weaver. If Kenny was 3-7 right now, no one would be claiming he has pitched well this year... Because he hasn't.

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What do you mean by this? Are you just saying long-term? He put it all together last year. He doesn't have to improve, he dominated last year.

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Prior was mediocre in his first year, great (but certainly not the best) last year, and has had one great outing and one terrible outing so far this year. I'll hold off on saying he's the best pitcher in the MLB right now.

Even in his most dominant year (last year), he wasn't the best pitcher in league... Schmidt, Pedro, and probably a few others were better.

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as of saturday night, clemens is #1 in the majors in wins and era and #2 in strikeouts. he's averaging over 10 k/9, has a whip of 1.12, and opponents are hitting .193 against him. in my opinion, that's pretty tough to argue against.

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Johnson: .167 BAA, 0.83 WHIP, 2.75 ERA, 5.50 RS
Schmidt: .182 BAA, 0.97 WHIP, 2.49 ERA, 3.91 RS
Glavine: .189 BAA, 0.95 WHIP, 2.21 ERA, 3.91 RS
Sheets: .197 BAA, 0.85 WHIP, 2.41 ERA, 3.40 RS
Clemens: .193 BAA, 1.12 WHIP, 2.08 ERA, 5.31 RS


I could make a pretty damn good case for Randy Johnson, Jason Schmidt AND Tom Glavine actually.

I'm surprised mhayden is the first one to mention Ben Sheets. Sheets is averaging nearly 7 k's a game including an 18 k complete game. He is already nearly matches Clemens in most categories and would definitely have more wins if he played for a better team than the Brewers.

Right now it is Jason Schmidt.

He lost two early as he was coming off of off-season shoulder surgery.

Since about May 1, he has dominated like few others.

Over the past month, here is the comparison....

Schmidt 4-0 47 K's 10 BB's 1 CGSO 1.18 ERA 0.71 WHIP
Clemons 2-0 36 K's 15 BB's 0 CGSO 2.20 ERA 1.22 WHIP

Therefore, as the question was posed, the best pitcher right now is Jason Schmidt.

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I'll hold off on saying he's the best pitcher in the MLB right now.

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I'm not trying to be picky, but I never said that he was the best pitcher right now. I just took offense to you saying that he hadn't "put it together" yet. As for the best pitcher, I'm not sure what that means.

Player that I want for the rest of the season? Schmidt or Randy Johnson
Over the last few years? Randy Johnson or Pedro
The player that you'd want on your team now and many years into future? Mark Prior
The player with the best stuff? Tough to say

As for Roger Clemens, yes he is having one of the best, if not the best, year this year. But the fact that his last really good season was with the Blue Jays about 5 years ago leads me to believe that he'll lose some steam before this year is over.

easily schmidt. if you cut out his first two starts this season his stats are even more incredible. easily who i would take if i needed a win in the Series.

i'd still take Clemens, amazing numbers for a guy at this point in his career - he has the experience and poise necessary to get things done

Ok... I'll put it this way... Prior has had one great year, thats it. He has the *tools* to continue to have great years -- but as of right now we're all going on a small sample size.

It's a good question - impossible to answer. It's a great time in baseball with about an equal number of rising stars (Sheets, Mulder, Prior) and aged badasses (Rocket, Unit, KBrown).

I'm a big Jason Schmidt fan, he's a fighter.

If the question is a game 7, who would I start if the game was tomorrow.....it's Clemens. He'll keep you in the game if not completely dominant. Only once in 12 starts this year has he put the Astros in position to lose.

PMart, Unit, Schmidt, the 3 A's, are obviously nice alternatives.

Prior still has some work to do to regain form, but that's expected. Kinda like Schmidt at the beginning of the season.



"Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall."

Being a Red Sox fan I'm gunna have to go with Pedro Martinez.

Personally I thought I would see at least one person say Carlos Zambrano. He's 23 years old, and is quickly becoming the number 1 in chicago, Prior and Wood cant stay heathly and this kid just eats innings.

He's 7-2, with a 2.27 era, 77 k's, and a 1.07 W/HIP

I would put these numbers up against almost anyone right now, and I would then give Carlos the edge because of his age and he pitches in Wrigley.

sorry for the late reply. i had forgotten about this thread until i watched kenny throw another gem today.

mhyden . . . you can post those stats . . but there are key differences

1)weaver doesnt have to face a DH every time out

2)weaver pitches at dodger stadium, probably the most pitcher friendly park and rogers pitches at the ballpark . .. notorious for being hitter friendly.

kenny has an era in the mid 3s i believe and is 9-2 . . . had cordero not blown 2 saves here recently, rogers would be 11-2 . . . the guy is pitching well and i dont see how anyone logically can dispute that

will he keep it up? probably not. but i'm sure any club in the majors right now would love to have kenny's pitching so far this season.

also, one stat . . the most important stat that you left out is ERA . . . weaver is 4.53 in a pitcher friendly park . . . rogers was 3.71 coming into today where he gave up 1 run through 7 innings against the defending world champs



[This message has been edited by hbk_ben (edited 6/20/2004 6:22p).]

Jason Schmidt threw his second one hit shutout of the year today against Boston.

Clemons is 0-2 since this thread began.

ERA is heavily dependant on luck and factors out of the pitcher's control -- WHIP and BAA are much better indicators. You'll see the same pitchers in the Top 10 in WHIP year after year, with ERA you always have a few pitchers that have "lucky" years.

As for Weaver pitching in Dodger stadium -- reference how Kenny's pitched away from home and how Weaver has pitched away from home... Again, Weaver actually with just as good, even better, numbers.

As for Kenny facing the DH -- accounts for about 2 extra hits a game, a *little* over 1 run a game. Not all that significant.

mhayden must have something out for Kenny Rogers. Sure he's not the best pitcher in the league, but to say he's not pitching well is just stupid. You post these stats about WHIP and opponents' BA. Big f-ing deal. Games aren't won and lost on WHIP and AVG allowed. They're won by keeping the other team from scoring. There's a reason you left off ERA when comparing Rogers and Weaver. Rogers is at 3.54 while Weaver is at 4.53. Weaver is giving up a run more per game on average playing in a pitcher-friendly park in a pitcher-friendly league. Sure Kenny allows guys to get on base, but he knows how to pitch out of those jams. He knows how to pitch when he doesn't have his best stuff. The bottom line is that he's a very good pitcher and you're high if you think he's not pitching well.

yeah again, i'm not saying kenny rogers is the best pitcher in the game. i'm not saying he's a top10 pitcher and heck, he may not even be a top30 starting pitcher in this league

but he's pitching well this year. he's gonna make the all-star team i bet. pitching well is giving your team a good chance to win. kenny's done that nearly every time out this year. not only that, but earlier in the year with the team facing a potential long losing streak, kenny has come up big and shut down the opponent for the victory.

he's in the best shape of his life. he was hitting 90 on the radar gun in the 7th inning today . .. something he's not accustomed to doing. he's having one of the best if not the best year of his life right now. but i guess he's not pitching well . . .

Rogers at home this year: 5-1 with a 3.53 ERA in one of the most hitter friendly parks .. . opposing bavg .242 and a whip of 1.06

he hasnt lost since may 9th. through today, his era is 3.54 and his bavg is .254 which is weird, that is what his yahoo game log says. but his yahoo profile says it is in the .260s

weaver . .. .258 baa 4.53 era, 1.40 whip (higher than kenny) . .. at home this year, weaver is 2-4 with a .261 baa anda 4.05 era 1.37 whip in a pitcher friendly park

so i guess weaver is doing about the same on the road as he is at home

meanwhile kenny is doing better at home than n the road but his era is still the exact same . ..

all in all, looks like kenny is clearly pitching better than weaver

[This message has been edited by hbk_ben (edited 6/21/2004 2:49a).]

No question about it Jason Schmidt...i'm glad im not the only one who recognizes this guy as a complete stud...

He comes right at you w/ the gas and drops that nasty change... he really doesn't get as much pub as he deserves he's 9-2 now w/ some sick #s

Eric Gagne. 81.

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