GIG 'EM AGS!

ATM 8
UH 7




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Good judgment comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

WHOOP!

best part is that meyer and rampy are both fish...

awesome game.....made the drive home much better

The best part was watching the cougar high fans trying to figure out how to heckle. Hilarious.

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It was pretty funny.

The best part is when they started yelling "scoreboard" in the 5th. That alone pretty much iced it for us!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

U OF H!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

U OF H!

I was loving the frustration of their Kevin pitcher when we were yelling BALL 5-6-7-8, the coach saw it too when he went to the mound. think that is y he was pulled!

Question for anyone at the game that KNOWS NCAA Baseball rules; please explain events in bottom of ninth. How, and why, was u of h runner sent back to 1st after supposedly mistaken balk call? Why was he either (A) not out at 2nd or (B)not allowed to stay at 2nd? Didn't know we had "Do Overs" in baseball.

ttt

it's called a timeout.

After talking to Meyer and CMav after the game they said that the play was ruled a balk. The ump near 2nd said it was a balk so he couldn't be out. The ump on first was saying it wasn't a balk (seeing how he should be the guy to call it with a lefty pitcher and all). Last night NCAA added a new rule called DO-OVER. In reality the guy should have either had 2nd (according to 3rd base ump) or be out. Not get 1st again. This is what Coach was arguing.

Thanks Rx. It sure seemed like the umps didn't have a real good handle on the situation. Everybody behind the A&M dugout was scratching their heads and wondering what the h$ll was going on. Since the ump at 1st (according to the HOHum Chronicle) was the one that mistakenly called the balk, I guess he was just trying to make up for it. Pretty weird though.

WoMD - It was not a "time out". The Home plate ump never signaled "time" until after the play.

Once the umpire calls a balk (mistakenly or not) its a deadball (and many umpires will say dedball with their balk call). When the ump called the balk the runner was still on first. They decided the balk was a mistake (the first base umpire called it for a lack of a pause in the stretch, but since the throw went to first it couldnt have been a balk for this) and so the runner was not awarded second base. The stuff with the throw to first and relay to second was all pointless because its a deadball as soon as the umpire yells balk.

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Very similar to an inadvertant whistle in football, you cant just assume the play would have continued as planned without the balk call.

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Some guys thought the first base coach called time out, so the whole thing was a non-play and the runner should have been retuned to first like he did. I didn’t see any time out, nor did anybody else that I could tell. It was just speculation about how the guy could have been allowed to go back to first. Also, the first base ump quickly ejected the first base coach, which led us to believe he was yelling at the ump about calling time out (but he could just as well have been yelling about the balk – that wasn’t)

The papers said nothing about any timeout and claim the ump confessed to blowing the balk call because the pitcher did not throw home, but to first anyway.

That is, the first base ump sees the pitcher change his normal pitching motion on what he thought was going to be a pitch to the plate and calls a balk too quickly to realize that the pitcher was actually throwing to first base and not home. Hence, the ensuing mess and the new NCAA official “Do-over” play.

BTW, the papers acted like that robbed Uof H of second base and a run on the next hit, but in reality it was not a balk and should not have been called a balk and the runner was out by 3 feet at second, so it actually robbed A&M of an out and allowed an extra base runner at first.

The paper also said U of H stranded runners at the corners in the ninth. Wrong. He stole second, so runners were actually at second and third. A huge difference in a one-run ninth-inning game.

The first base coach got ejected when the ump retracted the balk call. Probably gave him a few of the magic words because his ejection took about 2 seconds.

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[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 3/10/2004 3:43p).]

quote:

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must've called him a c0cksucker

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Here's what happened...

The umpire at 1B immediately called a balk on Meyer for not coming to a set position for a one-count. However, that is not a balk when you throw to any base besides home. Meyer's move was apparently so good that it fooled the runner AND the umpire at first into thinking he was going to the plate, hence the balk call.

Now, a balk is technically a "delayed dead ball." Once a balk is called the runner is no longer in jeopardy, and this is why the runner was not out at 2nd base. MJ came out to argue that the pitch was not a balk, which it wasn't, and the umpire reversed the balk call.

(Here's where Scalise, a former Cougar High player himself, tossed an F Bomb before earning an early trip to the shower).

So, the runner cannot be in jeopardy since the delayed dead ball (balk in thise case) was called, so the runner is not out at 2B. Therefore, the runner was assigned back to the last base he had earned before the delayed dead ball call, which was first base.

In effect, a "do-over."

That was the weirdest call I have ever seen. I have never seen a balk called and then have the runner come back to first. That was the best game I have seen all year in any sport.

Balks are judgement calls, just like balls and strikes. You either see it or you don't. Similar to holding in football. So when was the last time you saw a line judge reverse a holding call? Same thing last Tuesday night. Umpire made the call, sent the runner to second, and then changed his mind. About .06 seconds later was when UH first base coach went non-linear. The issue really isn't whether is was the CORRECT call. Again, how many times have you seen a HP umpire ring a guy up on a called third strike, then call him back to the plate for a "do-over"? So, whether it was the "right call" or not is not the issue. The issue is that the umpire made a judgement call and then overruled himself! I can asure you there would have been instant meltdown on TexAgs had A&M been on the receiving end of this one! And, of course, it had a direct bearing on the outcome of the game since the next batter naturally followed with a base knock, which ties the game.

Bottom line, as Noble said, is that Houston had nobody to blame but themselves for that loss.
Good luck for the remainder of the year and see you in CS in a few weeks.

BTW, Coogs play tonight in San Diego on national TV before largest crowd (30,000+) to ever see NCAA college baseball game. Beats LSU/Tulane record set last year in Superdome.

It's not a judgement call. There are very specific things to look for. If Meyer had gone home, it was a textbook balk, since he did not, it was a hell of a pick off move. Umps overturn calls in baseball all the time, even in the majors. You see the umps huddle up and talk things over regularly. Even though that blown call cost us an out, I would rather see the umps get it right in the end, which they did.

He called a balk for a specific rule (the ump always gives a signal to help you know why he's calling the balk). The rule he was calling a balk for did not apply (the pitcher had to throw the ball home in order for a balk to be called, he actually threw to first).

It would be similar to an umpire calling a runner out because he thought the ball was caught, but then changing his mind when he sees the ball rolling away from the play a couple seconds later.

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"Even though the blown call cost us an out..."

Wrong. The play was dead IMMEDIATELY after Real Man of Genius called the balk, so to say it "cost you an out" is factually incorrect. To pre-suppose what would have happened had the umpire not stopped play with the balk call is, at best, wishful thinking.

And we can further disagree that the balk call is a judgement call. Laws are clearly written but judges interpret those laws. The strike zone is clearly defined in the rule book, but umpires make make about 200+ JUDGEMENT every game in their ball/strike calls. So, just because balk rules are clearly defined in the rule book, it's STILL the umpire's JUDGEMENT that interprets those rules. He made a judgement call and overruled himself.

Maybe it is a judgement call but his reasons for overruling himself are valid because his reason for calling the balk initially did not apply to the situation.

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It wasnt a balk. I cant believe we are sitting here arguing that Coogs got screwed because the ump retracted his mistaken balk call...

"We shouldve won because the ump shouldnt have fixed his mistake!"

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LaserCoog,

What time and what channel is your game?

LaserCoog,

what is factually incorrect is for you to assume your man would have scored if he'd been awarded second base. He might have tripped on his knuckles or something...? Know one knows what would have happened.