dermdoc said:

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Bottom line is we need more GOOD seats which is a great problem to have. Of course, human nature being what it is somebody will still be pissed that they are in outfield seats and there are empty seats in the club. Oh well, BTHO Bowling Green!

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A lot of truth to this. Had a friend who was a GA at Houston Baptist last year and went to a couple of their games. Decent program and maybe 200 people there.

AGTX said:

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An alternative to use it or lose it would be a system in which you can donate back to the 12th man the tickets you don't intend to use. The 12th man could then sell the tickets.

This would reduce the amount of unused seats and the 12th man would be able to sell the same seats twice--once to the season ticket holder and once to the one off purchaser.

The revenue stream to the 12th man from the second sale would give an altruistic motivation for season ticket holders to participate. Ticket holders would gain a tax deduction and earn priority points for the donation (rules would be needed to keep fair) for a less altruistic motivation to participate.

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There he's already a way for ticket holders to resell their tickets. It's called flash seats

And they do not need altruism

They can sell them at a profit

The problem is they don't get off their butts and do it

Ha, definitely some truth to that.

Although, I think someone who has enough money to buy season tickets (especially Diamond Club seats) and let them go unused probably isn't interested in recouping the money spent or making a small profit--but giving additional tax write off and priority pints without additional outaly might motivate them.

Plus I think fear of letting opposin fans or obnoxious fans use their seats is a motivator not to sell--however, I don't know if a system like I described would actually keep those people out or even alleviate those concerns.

I would be real hesitant to do anything that 'punishes' or devalues the efforts of donors (not aimed at you CP, just speaking generally)

TexasRebel said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Again this is only a problem for those watching games on tv

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And the out of town fan who gets stuck in the grass with seats available.

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If they're sold they're not available. Also if you're driving up and don't have tickets and haven't learned how to use flash seats then you deserve to sit in the grass.

Captain Pablo said:

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The problem is they don't get off their butts and do it

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Which is why a fine for empty seats would work.

Either the owner gets off their butt and gets the seat filled, or they let the season tickets go to someone who will use them.

P.S. Dermdoc, I don't want your damn seat. I just want a body in it. Hell, put cardboard cutouts in it for all I care.

P.P.S. The extended nets kill every vantage point in the park.

TexasRebel said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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The problem is they don't get off their butts and do it

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Which is why a fine for empty seats would work.

Either the owner gets off their butt and gets the seat filled, or they let the season tickets go to someone who will use them.

P.S. Dermdoc, I don't want your damn seat. I just want a body in it. Hell, put cardboard cutouts in it for all I care.

P.P.S. The extended nets kill every vantage point in the park.

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Sports organizations are not going to fine their season ticket holders, I don't get why that is so hard to understand. It works that way in literally every sport at every level.

I personally try to sell my unused tickets on flash seats or give them to someone who can go, but a lot of times it doesn't work out...and in your plan a loyal customer is supposed to be fined for this?

No. Not if there is efferot made. Even as simple as the text idea earlier:

"We see you aren't planning to come to the next game, can we release your seats for sale?"

Or "Due to demand for the next game (more butts than seats) a surcharge will be implemented for unused seats. Would you like to offer any tickets for sale?"

Ticket holder can sell through the AD or however they choose. If proof cannot be provided that an attempt was made to fill the seat, $3.50 charge.

I just think if you feel like you need to pay for a special, visible seat you also have a responsibility to not have it empty on a national stage.

TexasRebel said:

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No. Not if there is efferot made. Even as simple as the text idea earlier:

"We see you aren't planning to come to the next game, can we release your seats for sale?"

Or "Due to demand for the next game (more butts than seats) a surcharge will be implemented for unused seats. Would you like to offer any tickets for sale?"

Ticket holder can sell through the AD or however they choose. If proof cannot be provided that an attempt was made to fill the seat, $3.50 charge.

I just think if you feel like you need to pay for a special, visible seat you also have a responsibility to not have it empty on a national stage.

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yea I wouldn't be opposed to something along these lines...just remember every athletic department is trying to take care of their season ticket holders.

HoustonAg2106 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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No. Not if there is efferot made. Even as simple as the text idea earlier:

"We see you aren't planning to come to the next game, can we release your seats for sale?"

Or "Due to demand for the next game (more butts than seats) a surcharge will be implemented for unused seats. Would you like to offer any tickets for sale?"

Ticket holder can sell through the AD or however they choose. If proof cannot be provided that an attempt was made to fill the seat, $3.50 charge.

I just think if you feel like you need to pay for a special, visible seat you also have a responsibility to not have it empty on a national stage.

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yea I wouldn't be opposed to something along these lines...just remember every athletic department is trying to take care of their season ticket holders.

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You mean the people who have actually invested money in the program? Unlike the guy you are agreeing with? Shazam

1. This whole thread has gotten way off track
2. Punish me for finally scraping together the money to donate and get some Aggie tickets? That's a sure way to NOT see my money again.
3. Absolutely impossible to enforce. Besides other scenarios offered, we sometimes only have enough people to use two of our four tickets. We enjoy the extra space those days, especially if everything around is packed. Regardless of how many butts are in those seats, they were paid for and went to good use.

Extra off-topic reply: the extended nets don't impede the view one bit (spoken by someone who used the hell out of his tickets last year and watched all those games through the net).

tonytx05 said:

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Extra off-topic reply: the extended nets don't impede the view one bit (spoken by someone who used the hell out of his tickets last year and watched all those games through the net).

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You became conditioned to accepting a cluttered view. No worries now that you have accepted it.

There are some absolute insane ideas being tossed around on here.

Bottom line is .. As long as the seats are sold to the season ticket holder there is absolutely nothing the AD is gonna do to make sure people are actually sitting in those seats.... And nothing they really can do

dermdoc said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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No. Not if there is efferot made. Even as simple as the text idea earlier:

"We see you aren't planning to come to the next game, can we release your seats for sale?"

Or "Due to demand for the next game (more butts than seats) a surcharge will be implemented for unused seats. Would you like to offer any tickets for sale?"

Ticket holder can sell through the AD or however they choose. If proof cannot be provided that an attempt was made to fill the seat, $3.50 charge.

I just think if you feel like you need to pay for a special, visible seat you also have a responsibility to not have it empty on a national stage.

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yea I wouldn't be opposed to something along these lines...just remember every athletic department is trying to take care of their season ticket holders.

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You mean the people who have actually invested money in the program? Unlike the guy you are agreeing with? Shazam

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I said I would agree with something along these lines. I myself am a season ticket holder and I don't think it's out of line for the athletic dept to send you a message the day before a game offering to sell your tickets and give you the money if you can't make it to a game. I don't think there should be a fee or anything like that, but this would probably be an easier way for people to sell unused tickets without much effort

You realize, if you're going to be at the big games none of this pertains to you, right?

I've paid for every game I've been to. I don't take up a seat when I can't drive 14 hours for a game. A plane is still out of the question, unfortunately.

TexasRebel said:

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You realize, if you're going to be at the big games none of this pertains to you, right?

I've paid for every game I've been to. I don't take up a seat when I can't drive 14 hours for a game. A plane is still out of the question, unfortunately.

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We are at all the games and our seats are not empty except under very rare occasions, so I realize this is not directed at me. It is your attitude that bothers me. But I am an old curmudgeon so maybe it is just me. BTHO Bowling Green!

TexasRebel said:

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No. Not if there is efferot made. Even as simple as the text idea earlier:

"We see you aren't planning to come to the next game, can we release your seats for sale?"

Or "Due to demand for the next game (more butts than seats) a surcharge will be implemented for unused seats. Would you like to offer any tickets for sale?"

Ticket holder can sell through the AD or however they choose. If proof cannot be provided that an attempt was made to fill the seat, $3.50 charge.

I just think if you feel like you need to pay for a special, visible seat you also have a responsibility to not have it empty on a national stage.

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How will the AD know someone isn't planning to come to the next game in order to send this text?

People who purchase these seats have no responsibility other than to pay the price that was requested for them. Once the seat is sold I doubt the AD really cares if it gets used or not.

Look, I get it that it would be nicer for those attending the games and the players on the field for the stadium to be completely filled as much as possible. I love the games when the seats are filled and the crowd is in to it, but all the ideas I've heard here just add an additional burden on the season ticket holder. And at the end of the day, the AD has made their money on the seat and there is zero incentive for them to implement some sort of system on top of ticket sales to ensure ticket usage, especially if it risks alienating those season ticket holders.

You don't think properly selling a ticket twice is incentive?

Hop said:

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TXAggie2011 said:

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The berms were/are a cost effective way to allow more capacity without spending big bucks to build seats that would be empty for about 2/3rds of he season. They're a great spot for casual fans and I know folks that really enjoy going out and sitting on the berms and enjoyed Texas' late "winter"/spring/summer weather.

"Removed" what seats, Hop? That uncomfortable, terrible view of the infield eyesore that were the right field bleachers?

I'm all for adding in real, permanent seats but I don't think there was anything wrong with constructing the berms.

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Adding the berms wasn't the problem. Berms are a good auxiliary area for the summer months. But the problem was A&M removed 2000 fixed seats in a $15 million renovation and partially replaced those lost seats with what is in essence auxiliary GA seating. Nobody from outside the local area is going to pack up the family on the day of the game without tickets in hand to wait in line to hopefully get a piece of grass to sit on. If you don't get there early enough, you are left to stand the whole game in the concourse. It's a bad set-up if you are trying to grow season ticket holders and grow a consistent fan base. In the context of the project, the berms in lieu of real seating was a bad idea. The fact that they are planning to spend another $10 million just 4 years after the last phase opened tells you the project didn't meet A&M baseball's needs.

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This. Berms are a horrible idea other than in the outfield. The cost between aluminum bleachers and the dirt work and upkeep on the berms is probably minimal.

twk said:

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Hop said:

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TXAggie2011 said:

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Hop said:

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sharpdressedman said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Hop said:

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I've heard that the 3rd base berm will be transformed into seating. Why anybody thought that taking seats out and replacing it with berms for a sport that goes from February-May was a smart idea is beyond me.

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Been saying the berms were a horrible idea since day 1

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I agree. Perhaps there was a shortage of funds to do otherwise?

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They incurred cost to take out the bleachers that sat 1500 and landscape a berm.

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They weren't going to spend all that cash on the new ballpark and leave the aluminum out there to sit empty for much of the season.

Removing them and putting in the berm was surely a small cost compared to removing them and building more permanent seating.

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You build capacity to meet your maximum demand, not your minimum demand. An empty bleacher in February is meaningless. You build to meet demand for the 3-4 big conference series in April and May along w postseason considerations. the absolutely worst case scenario for a sports team is a lost sale due to inadequate capacity. Season ticket applications have been turned away in recent years since the renovation, and there are very few single game reserved seats available for SEC series.

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That's just not financially responsible, You build your seating based upon what you think you can sell on a regular basis. If we had 2000-3000 seats above and beyond our season tickets and the student section, we'd sell a lot fewer season tickets because people would just buy tickets for the big games. Season tickets are the lifeblood of the program--not just financially, but also in terms of getting people committed to going to ALL the games (or all that they can make). If we had 10,000 seats, we'd fill the place for one, maybe two series each year, and the place would be a ghost town in February and March. Tickets can be too scarce, but a little bit of scarcity is a good thing. We are only now getting to the point where tickets are too scarce.

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That's an outdated and flawed premise. People are either going to buy season tickets or they aren't. I doubt you're going to find more than a few people who decide "well if I want a seat instead of the berm I better buy season tickets". They're much more likely to just say screw it I'll just watch every game on TV. Our athletic department doesn't have to do things like build a baseball stadium with the bare minimum number of seats to force people into buying season tickets or be relegated to the grass any more. We have plenty of cash. This is as outdated as Byrne's policy of hating being on TV at home because it hurt ticket sales. It's a stupid theory that alienates your fan base. I've got basically zero incentive to go to a game. I'd get to sit on grass instead of a seat, I'd get crappy concessions and no beer. I can sit at home on my back porch and grill good food and drink cold beer and watch it on tv.

so we build one of the nicest venues in the country and y'all want to add metal bleachers?? ok

DFWag84 said:

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so we build one of the nicest venues in the country and y'all want to add metal bleachers?? ok

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The old bleachers were as maligned on TexAgs back then as the berms are now.

Yeah, clearly you're right, evidenced by the fact our attendance has grown after the stadium was changed.

Oh wait. It hasn't. You act like there's is no money to be made by the AD by adding extra seats. It wouldn't have cost them any more money to put in seats where they put in the berms either.

Revenue has grown. When you are talking about the business of spending money on facilities, that is the figure that matters. As to attendance, that was declining in a big way prior to the renovation--we're very stable post-renovation, and poised to grow when we do the outfield project.

Is it possible that maybe revenue might have grown more if we had put in more seats instead of berms? If it is, please prove me wrong with actual factual data. And I don't mean crappy solar radiating aluminum bleachers. I mean full blown arm chair seats. Is it impossible to think people would be more inclined to buy tickets for those instead of a random, cramped space of grass? Or are we just not allowed at all to question anything our AD does?

It's a fact that season ticket sales were declining pre-renovation. If you think the elimination of overflow bleacher seating played no part in the increase in season ticket sales, I'm afraid that will just have to remain a matter of opinion.

Paying $60-100 for one baseball game on flash seats is not an option for a family of 4. It is a naive bit on your part that I recommend you change.

Cyp0111 said:

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Paying $60-100 for one baseball game on flash seats is not an option for a family of 4. It is a naive bit on your part that I recommend you change.

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That might be what it costs for front row behind home plate against LSU...but there are a lot of seats in the upper sections that are selling for $15-20 dollars each on flash seats. If that's not affordable then I don't think you should be spending money on baseball anyway....

Cyp0111 said:

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Paying $60-100 for one baseball game on flash seats is not an option for a family of 4. It is a naive bit on your part that I recommend you change.

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They pay that price for the worst endzone seats at Kyle Field. If you don't think it's worth paying that much for premium seating at baseball, then I guess you're just saying that baseball isn't worth paying to go see.

Would more people show up at Olsen if admission was free? Sure, but that won't pay the bills. Since the renovation, baseball comes pretty close to paying its own way, and we aren't going to do anything that makes that less likely. If we get to the point that a family of four can buy grandstand seats to the LSU series for face value, then we are probably in big trouble financially. That's just the way it goes. If we are succeeding on the field and at the box office, grandstand seats for individual big games are going to be expensive, and there's no way around that.

Ok, I'm not talking about season tickets. I'm talking about single game tickets. I know giving Aggie fans the option of being able to buy a walk up ticket for an arm chair ticket is a concept impossible for you to grasp, but believe it or not, that option exists for most every other big college baseball program, including many that smoke us in attendance.

And I'm not complaining about price. Charge whatever you need to. The berms were an absolutely horrible idea.

Cyp0111 said:

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Paying $60-100 for one baseball game on flash seats is not an option for a family of 4. It is a naive bit on your part that I recommend you change.

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You're going to find basically everyone on his side of the argument doesn't have a spouse or kids, or at least ones they ever take to games.

twk said:

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Cyp0111 said:

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Paying $60-100 for one baseball game on flash seats is not an option for a family of 4. It is a naive bit on your part that I recommend you change.

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They pay that price for the worst endzone seats at Kyle Field. If you don't think it's worth paying that much for premium seating at baseball, then I guess you're just saying that baseball isn't worth paying to go see.

Would more people show up at Olsen if admission was free? Sure, but that won't pay the bills. Since the renovation, baseball comes pretty close to paying its own way, and we aren't going to do anything that makes that less likely. If we get to the point that a family of four can buy grandstand seats to the LSU series for face value, then we are probably in big trouble financially. That's just the way it goes. If we are succeeding on the field and at the box office, grandstand seats for individual big games are going to be expensive, and there's no way around that.

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I know for a fact baseball games do not cost $60-100 each (unless your trying to buy front row tickets for a premium matchup). I had family members go to the Alabama games at $20 each and sit in the 200's section (bought on flash seats)...it's probably even cheaper for out of conference and Sunday games.