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so two years after a half death penalty is a long time?

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Okay. It's not a "long" time, but it is enough time to actually show progress. Baylor had some stunning losses last year, but still looked terrible over all. Surely, you can expect better than what you've had.

No Bear fan is going to say that Drew and the boys lived up to what we had hoped for. WIth injuries, our lack of depth and experience in the ever-critical frontcourt, we struggled against teams with athletic big-men. For the most part, we began to play very well near the end of the year, and we beat a couple of good teams in OSU and Missouri. Should have beat Texas two or three times last year, and we will make sure and take care of that order this year fo shizzle.

Don't forget that most of our talent had only played 1 full season of college basketball by the end of the year last year. Any Baylor fan who was paying attention could easily see we were a much better team at the end of last year than even the middle of the season. I expect to see a solid step forward this year, with an upper echelon step coming during Rogers, Jerrells, Dugat, and Mammadou's senior year.

Have you seen our 08, 09, and '10 commitments? Drew's going to be leading us into the NCAAs for many years to come thank you very much.

I have seen your commitments. I've alluded to Drew as the college basketball version of Ron Zook on this thread.

It's going to take a lot of talent to overcome his deficiencies as a coach. That is not being biased. That is what it looks like right now. At some point, you can't keep selling kids on PT and "we're a young team." You have a ton of talent and it's time to start doing something with it.

On the surface the criticism of Drew is fair but under a closer look it becomes clear just how much of an uphill battle he is fighting.

Coach Drew's highly rated recruiting that has played consists of the following players:

Curtis Jerrels (going to be a Jr)
Henry Dugat (Jr)
Kevin Rogers (Jr)
Diene (Jr)
Tweety Carter (So)
Josh Lomers (So)
D. Thiam (will be a Soph, blew out his knee in the 4th game of the year)

Now add to that roster Aaron Bruce who was an unheralded recruit.

Then the remainder of the roster is filled out by 2 transfers and a bunch of walk ons.

Bruce, Rogers, Diene, CJ, Dugat, Carter and Lomers make a nice little core group of players, but those guys aren't going to make lots of noise by themselves. That 7 clearly has some glaring defincies, it essentially is made up of 4 point guards, 1 good post player, and 2 7 foot projects.

I think it is fair to criticize Drew in areas, but this idea that he's had a roster firing away on all cylinders is simply not true.

Next year he will finally have depth, experience and a somewhat normal roster. To date that has not been there and it would be unreasonable to judge him on normal standards.

Aaron Bruce (who seems like he has been around forever) will be the first 4 year player of the Drew tenure and Tweety Carter and Josh Lomers (who will only be sophomores this year) are on track to be the first Baylor basketball players to not experience any effects from the Dave Bliss scandal/punishments.

guys, Baylor is in the hunt for recruits because they play in the Big 12 and they are so bad that they are able to always tell recruits they wil play immediately

early playing time is a huge key in basketball recruiting

Yes, but that alone won't get good recruits.

Drew and staff are very impressive and got in on a lot of kids early because they knew they couldn't recruit initially after their off the court troubles. Very impressive, but the time for excuses is fading.

Bayor 81 hit the nail on the damn head (except for Thiam's classification - he'll be a redshirt freshman). Drew's so-called questionable coaching ability is really more ignorance on the part of those saying it, and we don't need aggies to tell us when the time for excuses has run out. You need to worry about your own program and give Turdge some more money so that he can keep DeAndrae and his coach happy.

"Junkies on the streets gettin' diseases from monkeys....yea, that's what I said they're getting diseases from monkeys....we've got junkies with monkey disease...somebody tell them puhlease leave those poor sick monkeys alone, they've got problems enough as it it."


[This message has been edited by DrewBeliever (edited 8/31/2007 12:35a).]

[This message has been edited by DrewBeliever (edited 8/31/2007 12:36a).]

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Drew's questionable coaching ability is really more ignorance

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I agree. Ignorance on Drew's part as a coach has limited Baylor in winning basketball games.
Good point.

first off EVERY team these days is a young team. When BCG took us to the NIT ( a feat that it is worth noting Drew has yet to accomplish) we were starting...

1 Senior: Antoine Wright
1 Junior: A walkon Chris Walker
1 Sophomore: Acie Law
2 Freshman: Joseph Jones and Dominique Kirk

Off the bench we had a sophomore Marlon Pompey and a senior Bobby Leach.

So where exactly is Drew's disadvantage again? I agree that his first year was tough, but let's leave that year out (giving him and BCG the same number of years.) Hell I'll even leave out the year that they played half a season.

Here's my point. at SOME point in the future the "building program" sell isn't going to work any more. If Drew doesn't find a way to finish ahead of ANY team in the south this year then he might never be able to. (be on the lookout Sean Sutton)

bobinatowned

Bobinator,

The roster you posted included 2 NBA first round picks. Are you really asking what the difference is?

More importantly, it was a balanced roster. Yes, young in areas, but balanced.

By contrast, Drew has been making a run at this thing with what amounts to 4 undersized guards, 3 of which should be playing PG, a very good PF (who has shown improvement under Drew's tutelage) and 2 7 foot projects.

Beyond classifications, I fail to see the similarities between the situations.

Again, I reiterate that last year was the first year that was even a "normal basketball year" for the program.

You are right, he will have to win at sometime. My point remains though that a fair review of the facts reveals that "it shouldn't take this long" is not an accurate or fair critique.

Realistically, the Baylor men's basketball program has gone through a very interesting experiment to which there is no baseline for comparison. And I'm just saying that I think Drew shouldn't be judged against his counterparts as if its an apple to apple comparison given that last season was the first "normal season" in the post Dave Bliss era, a season that still only found us with 10 scholly players and was whittled down to 7 by season's end.

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The roster you posted included 2 NBA first round picks. Are you really asking what the difference is?

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Antoine was an NBA first round pick, Acie was not. The Acie from that year was talented, but frequently threw up bad shots and was not the Acie that he became. In fact, didn't many Bears say Acie and Bruce were about the same that year?

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More importantly, it was a balanced roster. Yes, young in areas, but balanced.

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Yes, but that team also started a walkon that wasn't even the best player on his intramural team and a freshman guard that no one in the country recruited. We also started a sophomore PG and a freshman center. Interesting difference is that our 3 star freshman center (Jones) produced more than Baylor's 4 star freshman center (Lomers).

I think part of the reason why some Aggies are skeptical about Drew's coaching ability is because of all the unrealistic Baylor fans who have been telling us for 3 years that "this is the year" and guaranteeing that they would at least split with A&M. And sure enough, on this thread someone has said they'd beat Texas "fo shizzle." That was a nice touch.

We've also heard about the greatness of the Baylor players. Bruce was supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Here he is, going into his senior year, and he gets next to nothing in terms of national press, and is 0-6 against A&M. I often get frustrated with Joseph Jones and foul trouble, but after watching Lomers last year, I don't know why I've been getting mad at JoJo. Lomers might get better, but I'm perfectly happy with any of our big men instead of him. Jari Vanttaja (sp?) was heralded by some as "the next Dirk Nowitzki." That sure has worked out. We've been hearing this for years now. Until Drew actually delivers on some player development that meets the hype we've heard from the fans, why should we expect any different from what we've seen?

That said, I do expect Baylor to be a lot better this year. If he isn't, in my opinion, Drew should be fired. My question for Baylor fans would be how long are you wiling to put up with losing seasons? Unless he shows some on court improvement, Drew is never going to coach some of those '09 and '10 recruits at Baylor.

Finally, just because everyone likes to make fun of bobinator, how has nobody called him out on saying AW was a senior?

[This message has been edited by Ag Since 83 (edited 8/31/2007 8:07a).]

Drew recruited that "unbalanced" roster. I believe it is his coaching that allows his team to shoot itself into and out of games by settling for 3's all the time. Kids do want immediate playing time, but they also want the exposure of televised games and tournament appearances.

aggies are baskeball stupid.

our roster was not balanced, until this past year we had 1 big man just like you. until this past year we started 2 guys because of intangibles not skill.

I believe the basketball stupid Aggies on this board have provided ample reasons as to why Baylor and Drew both suck.

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aggies are baskeball stupid.

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that is a great argument with many points to support your idea.....

Drew's dad is a good coach, much like Sean Suttons dad was. Apparently it didn't rub off on them.

And if Drew is so smart why is the best guy he recruited a guard???? The point made above of Drew recruiting an unbalanced roster is spot on. Certainly some guys don't pan out (Lomers) but you have to have peopel who can step in and adequately play their role. This is where Drew sucks the most he can't make people role players and make them excell at that role. His player development doesn't appear to be good as nobody has improved and young guys keep getting pleanty of PT.

Drew couldn't even take his dad's pretty good team to the NIT.

You guys are REALLY going to be mad when you hear about the next Baylor commit...pretty amazing what Drew is doing in Waco.

The only thing that runs across my mind every time Baylor gets a new kid is "so much for him."

I thought this forum was supposed to be a Jones update... how did this turn into a Scott Drew debate?

This is Texags - things aren't always as they appear.

Because Baylor is in the hunt for Jones and people are debating why Jones would want to go there since he will not become a better player and likely play on a bad team due to poor coaching.

So it normally takes 3 years to go from 0-16 to Top 10 with average recruiting classes?

What Drew's excuses again? "almost death penatly"? Yet Baylors recruiting classes were higher than A&M the past 3 years?

Baylor - your math just doesn't add up for Drew . .

Hilarious.

Don't worry, I'm sure there's a perfectly good excuse.

Duke Medium
Florida Medium
Georgetown Medium
Kansas Medium
Louisville Medium
LSU Medium
Southern Cal Medium
Texas Medium
Baylor Low
Connecticut Low
Kentucky Low
North Carolina

That's Greg Monroe's list of schools on Rivals. I know they're "low" on his list, but which school doesn't belong?

You guys won't even make the NIT next year...Drew's pipe dreams he is selling these kids will never get them in the post season.

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You guys won't even make the NIT next year...Drew's pipe dreams he is selling these kids will never get them in the post season.

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amazing analysis there. thanks for that.

same thing goes for a&m.

Florida Medium

Florida State Medium

Indiana Medium

Louisville Medium

Ohio State Medium

Texas A&M Low

Yeah i forgot that AW was only a junior, oops.

I don't really care who Baylor's mysterious super secret recruit is unless it's Anthony Jones.

And yes that list does include two FUTURE first round draft picks. But the Acie of that year wasn't the Acie of '06 and '07. And YET AGAIN I'm not saying that Drew should have been able to do what BCG did. Baylor was in a much deeper hole. But four years later and still not even an NIT birth?

Baylor is killing it in Bball recruiting:

SF Ater Majok
Offered by: San Diego St., South Carolina, Wyoming, and Fairfield? Wow...

PF 6'6" Storm Warren That's a big PF right There! Wow... BTW, this kid was down to Baylor, LA Tech, and LA Monroe.

Storm Warren had official visits (and offers) from Florida and LSU when he chose Baylor.

so his recruiting trips scheduled to florida and LSU on the 15th and 22nd of september mean they weren't interested?