Best sports product=hustle, defense, determination, attitude,desire to win.
I'd rather watch a bunch of overachievers with average talent than a bunch of underachievers with great talent who mail it in.
This is THE most exciting product in years.

obviously the complete change in attitude and intensity and effort from the team increased the value of the product, but the ultimate deciding factor is found in the W/L column and making the big dance and making noise there. Ill take getting to the big dance and winning over intense defense and good effort in the NIT...

I am in no way disappointed in the product Billy has given us given his resources, but for you people to say it is the best product we have been given in years is ludicrous. No big 12 titles yet, no big 12 tourney wins yet, no big road wins yet, no big non conference wins yet, no big postseason wins yet...the product is getting better, but dont fool yourself into thinking this is the best product we have seen in a long time because its not.

Whenever I go to an A&M sporting event I usually try to watch A&M play and could care less who are opponent is. This team plays with haert, guts, and determination, to bad the fans do not share this attitude.

This is the best basketball product we have put out in 15 years. Only other time we made the NIT one year under Barone.

[This message has been edited by billydean05 (edited 11/23/2005 1:35p).]

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This is the best basketball product we have put out in 15 years. Only other time we made the NIT one year under Barone.

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This is a much more accurate statement

Winning always comes before attendance. Never in the reverse.

We have no tradition of winning to fall back on, so Billy has to start from scratch. I would say based on last years results and attendance, he is doing a great job.

Exactly ...

Having students on campus helps and the level of competition (name brand has value here) are significant factors.

BCG knows this ... he's beating the drum but he knows Reed will rock after the holiday conflicts.

Excellence First ...

Superdales/others-

The reason we have such a weak OOC schedule is because they are having trouble getting the "big boys" of college basketball to come to College Station. We saw this before when UNC would only agree to a "home and home, when the A&m home game is played in Houston, while they got a home game at their gym.

Until if/when we become an established power house program will tough programs agree to come to our gym- right now there is little upside to agreeing to a home and home- with a game in College Station because they are supposed to win...

The problem our basketball team faces is similar to that mid-major football teams such as TCU, face with us in football. Often they only get to play a road game or get 1 one home for two road games in exchange at best-like our Wyoming series for example...

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it will still be thanksgiving break on Friday, that won't keep them from coming back.

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no, but our crappy football team will.

During BCG's second year at UTEP they had 10,000+ in the building EVERY night, even during nonconference games. Our student body dwarfs theirs, and there are plenty of non-students in the B/CS area to put 10K into Reed. He's doing his part, the fans have to do theirs.

And ...

just exactly how many people does El Paso have in its population compared to B/CS ???

from the Texas Almanac:

EL PASO 588,452

vs

BRYAN 69,146
COLLEGE STATION 73,691 (total = 142,837)

More than FOUR times the population base.

Plus ... I think you'll find a lot more of UTEP's students are locals compared to A&M. They're around 365 days a year.

Excellence First ...

I realize how big El Paso is, I'm just saying that there are plenty of people within an hour's drive from CS to fill up Reed on a nightly basis. We claim to have such great fans and yet Reed won't be remotely full until Tech comes calling on January 7th. Then all of a sudden the holidays will no longer be an issue and the students will magically appear back in College Station 10 days before the spring semester begins.

You guys seriously need to stop the bi*ching. This is pathetic. Students and locals had many reasons not to be at the game. And yes...they are called reasons, not excuses.

For example, I had a FINAL on tuesday night. I am not joking. I had my class final that is worth 40% of my grade on tuesday night. Also, this wasnt an easy class...it was AERO 304.

I actually did make it to the second half of the game after my final. But, outside of the people in my class, I did not know one person left in town.

Calling Aggies bad fans is just ridiculous. We have some of the best attendence figures in the nation (just look at soccer). We will sell out many games at Reed this season. However, it will not be to the likes of MVSU on the tuesday before thanksgiving. On thing I have noticed, is that die hard fans go to all games, but the students will show up in droves for about any conference game (ISU in football). When conference rolls around Reed will be packed. But of course, when Reed is packed you guys will start complaining about the bandwagoners who show up to fill Reed.

Seriously guys...shut up. Bring your friends with you when you come and encourage others to attend...but stop bi*ching about it.

so why did nobody show up Sunday night?

[This message has been edited by billydean05 (edited 11/23/2005 5:33p).]

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Calling Aggies bad fans is just ridiculous. We have some of the best attendence figures in the nation (just look at soccer). We will sell out many games at Reed this season.

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I think people come to soccer because we win...check out the drop off in volleyball attendance once they hit a skid this year.

The point is, BCG doesn't want students and fans that show up when it's convenient for them. Thats not the definition of a fan. He wants people there that want to be there to support the hardest working team in the country.

Byron,

If you would like to repeat those comments to me on Saturday at the Tulane game, I would love to sit down with you. I'll hold my line on the internet and in person. I bet you won't.

You better draw that one hour circle again. Guessing that's no more than 55 miles, I don't think you'll see any major population centers show up on that map.

Houston is 1+30 to 2+30 depending on traffic and which part you are coming from. That means driving like hell to make a 7pm tipoff and getting home at 11:30pm. You're not gonna get a ton of fans to do that over a holiday period (Ags travel home and have company too) for the likes of MVSU.

I hope you're not majoring in marketing ...

Excellence First ...

I guess the reason it bothers Bill G is because if 80k+ can show up to the football game the day after Thanksgiving, then he doesn't see any reason for a mere 10k to show up two days before Thanksgiving to the basketball game, and I don't really blame him. I know that people have places to go and things to do, but this game was still early enough during the week to attend.

And a TON of those folks are going to wearing orange, plus it's our biggest rivalry, plus your competition is the #2 team in the nation ...

NO comparison ... not even close. I am quite sure that BCG is much smarter than you guys give him credit for. He knew when he came here this would take some time. He knows he's not going to get 10K in the stands over the holidays against a creampuff.

Excellence First ...

On A&M's Attendance:

The attendance issue has really struck a nerve. My opinion is that there is no excuse, on a campus TAMU's size and with TAMU's desired reputation as a school with a special brand of school spirit to EVER have fewer than 8000 in attendance for any basketball game, regardless of time or opponent. Anything below that simply shoots down any claim A&M has to being a great sports school, end of story.

Sure, Tues. before Thanksgiving is not a great date, but let's look around at some other venues on Tues. night to see if there were similar results in attendance:

Tex. So. at Illinois - 16618
--UI: 29000 under grad enrollment; 105K community population
Hofstra at Notre Dame - 9837
--ND: 8332 undergrad; 107K South Bend pop'n
Butler at Ohio St. - 12915
Detroit at Okla. St - 11384
-- Stillwater!!
Pacific at Oregon - 8331
E. Illinois at St. Louis - 7534
Bucknell at Syracuse - 20490
La-Lafayette at Tennessee - 12089
NC Greensboro at Vandy - 10002
Tex. Pan-Am at Wichita State - 10271
-- Wichita State ??
Duke hosted Davidson - and sold out (9314)

Now come the excuses -- but Illinois was in the championship game last year. But Notre Dame is Notre Dame and Duke is Duke. But Oregon is in Seattle. But Tennessee beat us in a bowl game. But Wichita State...well, not much to say about that one.

Sure, some major colleges drew similar to or worse than A&M at home on Tuesday -- Miami (FL) drew just 2074 for a home game against No. Car. A&T, but that's Miami for you - the worst fans in college sports; Oregon State drew 4556 for a home game vs. Prairie View A&M; Washington St., located at the ends of the earth, drew 3138 for a home game vs. BYU; Boston College inexplicably drew just 5026 for a home game vs. Buffalo. And many mid-majors (which A&M is decidedly not) are fortunate to draw 5000 - Chattanooga drew 3400 vs. Belmont; Houston drew 4564 against Fla-Tech; NC-Wilmington drew 5072 vs. NoTexas; W. Kentucky drew 4470 vs. IUPUI (we should play them - "Beat the hell outta IUPUI!" Let's face it - if Notre Dame can almost fill it's arena for a game vs. Hofstra, TAMU should draw at least 8000 against anyone. No reasons or excuses not to.

On the OOC Schedule:

I am more than a little disappointed with the A&M OOC schedule this year and I don't fully buy into what appears to be the official line on why the schedule is so weak.

Specifically, out of some 200 major or mid major schools, I simply don't believe that we cannot find four or five to play us home & home. Forget North Carolina: what about New Mexico State? What about Wichita State? What about Mississippi? What about Air Force? What about Evansville? What about James Madison? What about SMU? What about Seton Hall? What about Temple? What about Virginia Tech? The list goes on and on and on. Are we to believe none of these schools, or other schools like them are willing to play A&M? Why not??

And even if so, why schedule the SWAC so heavily for the paycheck games? What about the Texas independants like Tex A&M - CC (OK, we had a bad experience with them once) or Texas-Pan Am? What about the Southland schools like Sam Houston or McNeese? What about schools from the other minor conferences like the Big Sky (N. Arizona?) or Ivy (Brown?) or Northeast (Sacred Heart?) or the Patriot (Lafayette?). After all, variety is the spice of life. Are we to believe that the SWAC and it's kindred spirit Savannah State (these represent 5 of the 7 schools we scheduled as a home-only opponents) are the only schools that will play us for a paycheck?

Last year, the SWAC was 31 of 31 in Sagarin conference ratings - the year before, the SWAC was 30/31 - the year before that, the SWAC was rated 30/31 - before that, 31 out of 31. You get the picture. Let's face it, whoever puts our schedule together needs to join a 12-step program for SWAC-addicts.

There are simply too many other similarly situated schools to TAMU that have much more marketable OOC schedules than does Texas A&M.

Look at Houston - this year they host Arizona, Virginia Commonwealth, So. Alabama, No Texas. TAMU-CC and Lamar. They travel to TAMU-CC, Sam Houston, LSU, UNLV, Rhode Island and Centennary. Am I to believe that Arizona or VCU will travel to play Houston, but not Texas A&M? Call me a skeptic.

That said, regardless of time or opponent, anything under 10K is cause for concern - anything under 8K is cause for embarassment. For a school of our size and with our national ambitions, attendance under 5K, regardless of date or circumstance, should cause this student body to be deeply humbled when it comes to claims of great school spirit. Either support the program, or let's just quit pretending.

On Thanksgiving Week.

If TAMU had any sports fans, they would have done what real sports fans at other serious schools do - go to the game Tuesday, then go home on Wednesday morning. No questions asked.

If you really think comparing our program to Illinois or Duke is remotely valid, then ...

Compare their baseball or football attendance ... Basketball is ALL they have.

Also the city population is a bit different there. You don't have to drive 2-6 hrs to get there from small towns like CHICAGO.

Excellence First ...

What was the average OOC attendance during Watkins' and Barone's tenure?

Comparing TAMU to Illinois and Duke is obviously not valid - that's the point. Duke sells out an exhibition against Concordia (Canada). Illinois could draw 16K for an intersquad game.

As for football, Duke barely has a program. Illinois has won one conference game in the last three seasons - their avg. attendance this year was 47,852 and last year was 48,625 the year before that and 52,763 before that. Their capacity is 69K. Not great - not bad for that school and those circumstances.

Illinois-Champaign-Urbana is 2.5 hours south of Chicago - about the same distance as Houston is from B/CS.

OOC Attendance:
Watkins Year 1: 5 OOC home games, 20,981 att, 3497 avg.
Watkins Year 2: 4 OOC home games, 12,589 att, 3147 avg.
Watkins Year 3: 6 OOC home games, 20,289 att, 3381 avg.
Watkins Year 4: 6 OOC home games, 28,055 att, 4676 avg.
Watkins Year 5: 6 OOC home games, 25,269 att, 4211 avg.
Watkins Year 6: 7 OOC home games, 30,612 att, 4373 avg.
Total Watkins: 34 OOC home games, 137,795 att, 4052 avg.

BG Year 1: 12 OOC home games (incl NIT), 75,061 att, 6255 avg.

Good way to skew the figures. Whats BCGs without the NIT?

10 games, 53,381 att, 5338 avg. without the NIT games.

thanks.

the numbers are better. They should continue to get better. Everyone just needs to get their friends to the games. The team winning will bring the masses. I know we want a basketball mecca to start overnight...but it can take some time.

We're growing at 20% per year ... conference attendance even more so.

Get another decent season under our belt and improve the quality of the non-conference schedule and we'll see an 8K avg in non-con next season. Conference play should be at or above 10K this season unless we flop.

This issue wasn't created in 2 yrs and it won't go away in 2 yrs. BCG knew that coming in.

Having so many home games might be part of the problem too. It dilutes the product a bit ... if you don't make the game, no big deal; they'll be another one in 2 or 3 days.

Excellence First ...

[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 11/23/2005 9:28p).]

As we get better over the next year or two, we will also see us more confident and comfortable scheduling road games and tourney's during the first six weeks of the season.

This will cut our home non-conf. games to about 5 or 6 instead of 10 to 11. The fewer the opportunities, the more likely people will take advantage of catching an Ags BB game at home regardless of the opponent.

But with 12 (including exhibt.) straight home games with all but 3(tulane, PennST, Auburn) against generics there is simply too many games to pick an choose when to go, especially for out of town fans like myself.

With our current schedule, the first four games have been like pre-season. I bet with Tulane PSU and Auburn we will start to see lots of folks coming out. And for conference we will average well above 10,000 per game. Count on it.

As I said on another thread, Aggies dont care that the Aggies are on the field/court, just who is on the other side of the field/court. Even in the glory days thats how its been. When all the Aggies care about the Aggies, not the other team, we'll sell out every event. Until then, we'll have people complaining about having to watch tx state, or MVSU and people complaining that nobody is there to watch the games.