mohead1 is right

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anyone that follows basketball knows that a defensive/rebounding-minded center is not going to put up a lot of points. their presence is felt in other parts of the game, like altering shots, denying position and cloggin up the lane. bottom line is that damp did his job when he was in the game.

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Good point. Rasho is a better center than Dampier as well.

i hope you're kidding. i'm pretty sure spurs management would have a different opinion. he is basically stealing money from them.

Dampier isn't even the 2nd best center in this series. That honor goes to Mutomobo.

shaq respects very few players in the league for their play and yao is one of them.

his fouls come many times with body english. he isn't saavy as far disguising contact, ala dirk. its a great skill to have yao is severely lacking that dept.

as far as dampier, the fact that we're even mentioning his name is ridiculous.

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kaman...that makes me want to laugh. ilgaskus is way too soft. he'll pull a 15-foot jumper on you, but bradley can do that. okafur is not a true center. i'll give you one of the wallaces, but i think that camby and dampier and interchangeable (camby more athletic, but dampier much more powerful). curry needs more than one productive year to be in this discussion (plus, i am not so sure about his defense) - but he has a lot of potential. and please don't start throwing stats at me. anyone that follows basketball knows that a defensive/rebounding-minded center is not going to put up a lot of points. their presence is felt in other parts of the game, like altering shots, denying position and cloggin up the lane. bottom line is that damp did his job when he was in the game. he is not to blame. he shut down yao in the first game, and yao got the majority of his points against bradley in the second.

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Lou - What exactly does Dmapier do that's so great? He supposively had a great year last year.....he AVERAGED 12 points a game. He didn't even average 10 points a game this year & has only averaged double digits twice in his career. He's only averaged 9 or more rebounds once in his career. He's simply not good. In today's NBA there are really only 2 great centers but I'm saying I would rather have all those guys playing center for my team.

Yao - 18 & 8...enought said

Kaman's stats are equal to Damper's & Dapier plays on an offensive juggernaut.

Ilgauskus averaged 17 & 8..not even close

Okafor played center for his team, gaurds centers & plays like a center...but he's not a center...ok. By the way he averaged 16 & 11

Camby averaged 10 & 10..better than dampier

& don't even get me started on stoudamire

Damp's comments were stupid. I was a little surprised by them because you dont ever see any comments from him. With that being said, most of Yao's damage came when Damp was on the bench in foul trouble. Yes he scored on Damp, but I bet if you looked it up over 60% of Yao's scoring in that game was while he was out. Although it might not have been that much better had he been on the court. Yao had it rolling the other night.

sofa - apparently you cannot read very well because i did say in a prior post that dampier is a defensive/rebounding-minded center who is not called upon to score. with that said, let's look at some stats:

dampier - 12 rebounds and 2 blocks per game last year. 8.5 and 1.5 this year, in a season where he was mostly limited by injuries. lets also not forget that he is 6-11, 265 and is a very strong and physical presence in the paint (which alters shots, prevents potential drives to the basket and stops post players from getting good position on the block).

kaman - 5.6 and .9 last year, and 6.7 and 1.1 this year. also, skinny white guy with a goofy looking face and absolutely no toughness whatsoever. laughable in comparison. his points per game are also laughable.

ilgauskus - 8 and 2.5 last year, and 8.6 and 2.1 this year. little better with the blocks, inferior in rebounding, and also extremely soft. i also follow the cavs (as i am from cleveland) and, trust me, he is very easy to back down and score on. give me damp any day. z can shoot, but most teams don't need a center who can shoot. they need a physical presence who will grab rebounds and force people out of the lane. this is especially the case for the mavs. also, z only shoots 46% to get those extra 5 points a game, while damp shoots 55%. z may be a better offensive player, but damp is more efficient when he does shoot, which is good for a team with a lot of scorers (like the mavs).

camby - 10.1 and 2.6 last year, and 10 and 3 this year. like i said, pretty equal to dampier. damp rebounds better (when healthy) and camby blocks better. however, camby is only 235 pounds and is not very strong. he can be pushed around, while damp cannot. i still say this is even because i like the way camby swats the ball. btw - he scores less a game than damp the last two years, so don't argue that he is better offensively.

okafur - is only considered a center because he is the tallest guy on his team. once they get a true center, he will assume his natural position of pf. same goes for staudamire.

this is getting stupid. he shouldn't have said what he did, but he is a much better player than you bandwagon rockets' fans make him out to be. if everyone on the mavs played the way they are supposed to, like damp has for the previous two games, this series would be 1-1 or 2-0 mavs.

It's funny you use dampier's season last year. it ws his best year of his career by far & had numbers above is career averages in every category. He had 1 o.k. season. averaged 12 & 12...wow, put him in the hall of fame.

all the great centers I can think of have all been known for their defense & rebounding. Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, M. Malone. If only those guys could have been better scorers they would heve been awesome.

Using that logic Bruce Bowen must be 1st team nba b/c of his defense & Rodman's one of the greatest power forwards of all time.

[This message has been edited by Sofa King (edited 4/27/2005 1:18p).]

you do realize that basketballs players must defend, rebound, and score right?

you cant just do 2 out of 3 and be considered good, unless you do them extremely well (ben wallace).

no one is saying that dampier is a great center, only that he is better than most in the nba. only shaq can be considered a great center. and don't tell me yao is. to be great, you need to dominate, and yao only dominates sean bradley.
once again, other than shaq, yao, miller, and wallace (with camby close by), name me a true center that you would rather have on your roster than damp. ilgauskus is a good player, but he is still way too soft. damp may score 5 points a game less than z, but he more than makes that up on the defensive end of the court.
staudamire and okafur are clearly better overall players than damp, but they are not true centers. just because dirk played center last year does not mean that he is a center. it only means that he had to because bradley was the only center on the mavs roster.

[This message has been edited by LouBrown (edited 4/27/2005 1:28p).]

ben wallace averaged 9.7 points per game this year, is a career 6.5 points per game scorer, and clearly has one of the ugliest shots in the nba. damp is probably better than him offensively (career 9 points per game scorer), but since wallace is the most dominating defensive and rebounding force in the nba, i would put him next to shaq and even with yao.

[This message has been edited by LouBrown (edited 4/27/2005 1:31p).]

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no one is saying that dampier is a great center, only that he is better than most in the nba

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no one except dampier.

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other than shaq, yao, miller, and wallace (with camby close by), name me a true center that you would rather have on your roster than damp

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Exactly. Who do you think Dampier was calling out before the series started? Clearly he thought he was going to come in and dominate Yao and Mutumbo. Hope he feels like an idiot after this series is over.

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It's funny you use dampier's season last year. it ws his best year of his career by far & had numbers above is career averages in every category. He had 1 o.k. season. averaged 12 & 12...wow, put him in the hall of fame.

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Read: CONTRACT YEAR. He is nothing more than a scrubish roll playing center a la Rasho, Olowakandi, etc. Dampier is not better than most centers in the league. I would say he is perfectly average.

the numbers and results suggest otherwise. the mavs were an average team when he was out of the lineup this year. he is a big body who adds a lot more than most of the centers in this league. for example,

feb. 1, mavs vs. heat:
damp, 15 points, 14 rebounds, 0 turnovers, 34 min.
shaq, 23 points, 13 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 38 min.
mavs win 109-104

find me another center in the league who can man up to shaq. maybe yao. perhaps, wallace.

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feb. 1, mavs vs. heat:
damp, 15 points, 14 rebounds, 0 turnovers, 34 min.
shaq, 23 points, 13 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 38 min.
mavs win 109-104

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LMAO. 1 game holding Shaq to 23 points? What a defensive force!

February 13, 2005
Rasho 4pts, 11 Rebounds
Shaq 27pts, 7 Rebounds

WOW. Rasho is amazing! How many centers can keep Shaq from out rebounding them and hold him to 27 points. [/sarcasm]

It's hilarious that you pick and choose an average players stats when they have a great game here and there.

that's just an example. my point is that when he is motivated, he is one of the better centers in the nba. the problem with him is that he doesn't always bring it. well, its the playoffs, and he has been playing well thus far. he is the main reason the mavs took the lead in the third quarter (4 dunks, blocked shot, held yao to a couple of points, clogged up the middle, etc.). you guys take a comment made by a guy before the season and blow it up into something big. i'm sorry, but i would rather have a guy who is confident and talks some trash, than a puss like bradley. yao has about 45 points in this series, and at least half of those are off of bradley/van horn. i would say holding yao to 22 points in two games is pretty good. an average center could not do that. kaman, mihm, rasho, jermaine jones, lafrentz, foyle - those are average centers, and damp is much better than them.

ok ok, Dampier isn't that bad. As someone earlier said, he's perfectly average & adequate in Dallas.

I think everyone can agee (except maybe Lou) he's not a top 5 "true" center (Shaq, Yao, Miller, Wallace, Ilguaskus, Curry, Okafor, etc) & he's not in the top 10-15 "guys that play center" (includes Stoudamire, Duncan, Dirk etc.) in the NBA and he's displayed that over the 7 or so years he's been in the NBA.

The player that is most like him in the NBA is Michael Olowakandi. The player most like him in the NFL is Freddie Mitchell (open mouth, insert foot).

[This message has been edited by Sofa King (edited 4/27/2005 6:02p).]

when was the last time olowankandi posted a double-double? maybe 2 or 3 years ago. well, dampier averaged that for an entire season last year, and may have done that again this season if not for getting hurt in feb. those two are not even in the same league. and if you criticize damp for having his best season in his contract year - what about eddie curry? same thing.

[This message has been edited by LouBrown (edited 4/27/2005 6:23p).]

Career AVGs
Dumpier: .46FG% .64FT% .4STL 1.6BLK 1.7TO 2.9OFF 4.4DEF 7.4REB .9AST 8.9PTS
Olowokandi: .44FG% .60FT% .5STL 1.5BLK 1.9TO 2.1OFF 5.3DEF 7.4REB .7AST 9PTS

Pretty identical and everybody knows Olow sucks.


Per 48 min stats for this season
Mutumbo: 13PTS .6STL 17REB 4BLK 2TO 0AST
Dump: 16PTS .5STL 15REB 2BLK 3TO 2AST

[This message has been edited by '98 Horn (edited 4/27/2005 7:54p).]

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when was the last time olowankandi posted a double-double? maybe 2 or 3 years ago. well, dampier averaged that for an entire season last year, and may have done that again this season if not for getting hurt in feb. those two are not even in the same league. and if you criticize damp for having his best season in his contract year - what about eddie curry? same thing.

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Eddie Curry - totally different thing. Dampier has been relatively steady for 5-6 years (ups & downs). Curry's been in the league 4 years. Every year he's gotten better. He's averaged 7,10,14,16 points per game in that order since he came in the league. His rebounds have also increased in the same way. He's obviously getting better year to year. Look at his numbers vs. Dampier's numbers this year & over their careers & then tell me who you'd take.

As for Olowakandi he didn't average a double double but he did average 12 & 9 three years ago vs. dampier's double double 2 years ago...wow, what a difference. Let's compare their career averages

Dampier/Olowakandi
ht- 6'11"/7'0"
wt-265/270
age-29/30
pts-8.9/9.0
reb-7.3/7.4
blks-1.6/1.5
asst-0.9/0.7
fg%-46%/44%
ft%-63.5/60.5


call me crazy but i'd say they're just about the same player....

You guys are all looking at this like fantasy basketball GMs. Dampier is on a team with Dirk, Finley, Stackhouse, Terry, Van Horn, Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels, etc. 5 of those guys have averaged 20 points a game or more at some point in their career and Howard is a scoring threat too. Bottom line....DAMPIER isn't asked to score!!!! So to compare points is stupid. In terms of comparing Damp to Camby or Z, the Mavs don't need tall skinny guys at Center. They have had those. Dallas got Dampier to be a presence inside. Someone to put a body on Shaq and Yao. If you want Kaman, Camby, Z, Olowakandi, etc. on those guys then you are all even more ignorant than you sound on this thread. If you watch the Mavs regularly, and even in Game 2, Dampier did what he was supposed to do and played well. Yao scored a TON on Bradley and Van Horn.
As far as going out of the game at the end...he's not a good free throw shooter and in a close game it is tough to keep him on the court in that situation. There is some other guy named Shaq that has faced that same problem too. Yao happens to be a good free throw shooter so it isn't an issue with him.

Dampier is clearly not the 2nd best center in the league but for the Mavs he is a great fit. Other than Shaq or Yao there isn't ANYONE else I would rather have in the middle.

This series isn't over yet and you Rockets fans should be slow to speak right now. It would be pretty embarrasing to lose this series given the current situation!!!!

I'm not a Rockets fan. Great post Horn.

Olowakandi=Dampier

Kandi isn't asked to score either because he plays with KG, Cassell, Latrell "Can't Feed My Family" Spreewell, Wally, Hudson, etc.

Kandi, Damp, Rasho are all one in the same - big guys that can clog the lane and play pretty decent defense because of their size.

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Dampier isn't even the 2nd best center in this series. That honor goes to Mutomobo.

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On the money.

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DAMPIER isn't asked to score!!!! So to compare points is stupid. In terms of comparing Damp to Camby or Z, the Mavs don't need tall skinny guys at Center. They have had those. Dallas got Dampier to be a presence inside.

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So what about the previous 8 seasons when he played for Golden State? He averaged fewer points there then he did this year with dallas. Was he not asked to score there either? He must have been the 5th option behind that killer Mugsy Bogues, Joe Smith, Antowan Jamison, Sam Mills, Danny Fortson combination.

you can't just take career statistics and put them in the context of this argument. the last two years, dampier has developed into one of the better centers in the league. no one cares what he did in his first few years in the league, just like no one cares what curry did. the bottom line is that both are pretty good right now. olowakandi has nothing on dampier right now. not only do the stats say that, but just ask any mavs fan and wolves fan who they would rather have. it would no doubt be dampier. and please stop with the "i think i am creative and funny so i am going to take dampier's name and turn it into something really funny like 'dumpier'" its really not that funny, especially when its used over and over again.

Lou - the stats simply don't say that. Dampier had better stats his second & third years in the league that he did this year, & don't give me that "he isn't asked to score" argument b/c he wasn't asked to score then either. He averaged more points, rebounds, blocks & assists those years than he did this year.

You can argue all day long but someone that has averaged more than 8.5 rebounds a year once in his 9 year carrer career, more than 9 ppg twice in 9 years, & 2 or more blocks in his career once in 9 years & is not showing any improvement over the 9 years is nothing more than an average player.

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the last two years, dampier has developed into one of the better centers in the league.

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Again, there is no statistical evidence to prove this in any way whatsoever. Your blue tinted glass homerism of him being a Maverick is blatantly obvious.

Ask Greg Popovich who he would rather have as a lane clogging center that isn't asked to score, but rather play straight up and help defense in the lane and he would pick Rasho over Damp any day. And most of us Spurs fans will admit that Rasho "the weak" is nothing more than an average center at best.

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but he is a much better player than you bandwagon rockets' fans make him out to be.

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Did anyone else laugh out loud when they read this statement? The Mavs fans definitely should not be referring to anyone as bandwagon fans. Take a look in the mirror. Funny how I saw very few Mavs fans during the entire decade of the 90s, yet now they are all over the place.

BTW, Lou....please give it up man. I'm a Spurs fan first, Rockets 2nd....but you're getting schooled in this thread.....especially by Sofa. What kind of drugs are you on son?

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if everyone on the mavs played the way they are supposed to, like damp has for the previous two games, this series would be 1-1 or 2-0 mavs.

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Still no credit to the play of the Rockets.....color me un-f'in surprised. Some of you Mavs fans really amuse me.




- Don't you understand? It's not about him. To have a line as perfect as jerk store and to never use it. I couldn't live with myself.

It's smart...it's a smart line, and a smart crowd will appreciate it. And, I'm not gonna dumb it down for some bonehead mass audience!!

[This message has been edited by T-Bird01 (edited 4/28/2005 12:21p).]

getting schooled? i have said two things during the course of this discussion - the series is all about dirk. well, dirk finally played like dirk and the mavs won. if he had played like dirk in the first couple of games, dallas would have won game 2, and may have won game 1. and i have also said that dampier is a pretty good center whose value is not exactly reflected in his stats. well, last night, the mavs were down by 8 in the fourth quarter when dampier was put into the game. 6 minutes later, they completed a 20-0 run and won the game. damp's line didn't look great because he only played 19 minutes (foul trouble and avery's desire to play small ball), but when he came in the game, he got rebounds, kept yao out of the paint, made a crucial follow-up dunk to give the mavs the lead, altered two of bobby sura's layup attempts (which he had been killing the mavs all night) and didn't sit back and try to take charges like your boy yao does whenever someone drives the lane. there is no doubt he is not the second best center in the league, but he is still one of the better ones. you spurs fans are lying out of your ass if you say you wouldn't take dampier over rasho. i just wish avery would play him more because he makes a difference against yao (who, once again, found it much harder to score with bradley on the bench).

Do you want to know why Yao tries to take charges?... It's because all he has to do is breathe near someone and he gets the whistle. He's trying to plant his feet, stick his arms straight up, and pray that the ref won't penalize him for being the most imposing presence on the court. If he ever jumps when someone drives the lane, they call the foul.

Why Shaq is allowed to run over anyone he pleases on his way to the basket w/out a call, and Yao is treated like an unknown rookie by th refs, I'll never know.

If they would just call the game equally w/out this superstar scale, the game would be much better.

yao gets his fair share of calls. for example, at the beginning of the third quarter, yao clearly fouled dirk, but the refs called it on padgett simply because he put his hand in the air. that would have been four on yao, and likely would have put him on the bench.

Nice examples

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you spurs fans are lying out of your ass if you say you wouldn't take dampier over rasho.

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Rasho's salary: peaks at $8,400,000 in the final year of his K in 08/09.

Dampier's salary: peaks at $12,250,000 in the final year of his K in 2010/2011.

For the 23.5M more that Dallas is guaranteeing Dampier than SA is Rasho for virtually the same player (Defensive, lane-clogging, rebounding, shot altering, center that fits the system) - you're dead wrong and obviously have no clue of the fiscal discipline and fortitude of the Spurs front office.

As noted above, you're getting destroyed with your bogus arguement that Dampier is somehow "one of the better centers" in the NBA when really he is just an average center.