stuck at work,

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UT linebacker recruit charged with rape


07:18 AM CST on Tuesday, December 21, 2004


By CHIP BROWN / The Dallas Morning News



Chris Collins, a top linebacker prospect who had orally committed to UT, has been indicted by a Bowie County grand jury on a charge of aggravated sexual assault against a 12-year-old girl.

The allegations involving Collins, 17, who was not allowed to play this season at Texarkana Texas High, revolve around a post-prom party at a hotel on May 23. Collins is free on a $40,000 bond.

Chip Brown

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there you go. and hes still listed as a texas commit. what a great example to set.

stuck at work....you know very well that if an A&M recruit did the same thing then the horns would be all over us. Also, sometimes circumstantial evidence is all we have. No one can prove for sure that Scott Peterson killed his wife but any idiot could figure it out. It's called common sense, not "lack of class" or whatever you claim. Where there is smoke there is fire etc etc. And I don't give a crap WHAT the situation is...a HUGE man like Klotz, or any man for that matter, to beat his girlfriend is not cool. I'm appalled that you are defending him. If I was dating an athlete and he beat me...I hope to God that no one would defend him just because he brings money to the institute and is a fine athlete.

btw UT1999...I believe you said sarcastically

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As for Klotz, I guess no one deserves a second chance.

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NO Klotz does NOT deserve a second chance. beating a woman NEVER deserves a second chance. EVER. If I was ever stricken by my boyfriend I would wish him well in hell. I would almost wish the same for those who defend him.

I think YOU are classless for defending a girl-beater.

[This message has been edited by agthatsagirl (edited 1/18/2005 10:54a).]

agthatsagurl, the only difference is that his girlfriend refused to press charges or cooperate with the police. So it sounds like to me that she is giving him a second chance.

To me beating a woman is one of the worse things (short of murder) that a guy can do, but I'm a believer that people in life do deserve second chances.

also I missed that you said I was classless...thanks I know I've truly arrived in life when an aggie calls me classless

(seriously you guys through around classless so much it has lost any real meaning)

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although most will drop a class prior to failing.

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Another M A J O R difference between tu and A&M. You can't do this infinite amount of times at A&M as you can at tu. We're at a B I G disadvantage here (or were when I was in school -- don't think it's changed).

Again, I don't really blame tu, it's the rule that needs to change. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON a player should continue to get to play once it's known he has failed. He should not get to play until the next semester begins. There is a grade deadline in the fall (let's say Dec. 18) and once that deadline comes and goes the player should be eligible/ineligible at that point. I don't have ANY idea why in the world a player is allowed to continue to compete when it's known he is/will be ineligible. It's complete bs and there is NO explanation for it.

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(seriously you guys through around classless so much it has lost any real meaning)

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I completely agree. I'm so sick of Aggies talking about class I could vomit. At least use some different verbiage.

99_aggie, I'm not sure about the dropping a class infinite number of times, I only did it once my time at UT (due to a family illness) and I can tell you there is still an I on my transcript to this day. Players however still need to get their hours each semester. Most of the athletes I knew would sign up for an extra class and then drop one (without any penalty) after the first week of classes.

As for why the rules are the way they are, they are very easy to explain...John Thompson! He was very influential in many of the current NCAA rules and any rule that could potentially put a kid (particularly one of a minority background) from being able to play or even worse give them reason to drop out of school, was struck down. He wielded a lot of power while still the coach at GTown and was the Jesse Jackson of college basketball.

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There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON a player should continue to get to play once it's known he has failed.

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You don't know that PJ Tucker failed. Perhaps he simply has not made enough progress towards his degree. Maybe he's appealing a grade . . . maybe all of this is nothing more than rumor . . . maybe you Aggies should cool it with the holier-than-thou routine, because it gets REALLY F'N OLD.

I have no problem with PJ playing until he is declared ineligible. In my opinion, anyone who DOES have a problem with it is being ridiculous. Play by the rules . . . both ways. Gillespie would do the same thing if he thought it was in his team's best interest.

". . . Yeaaahhh."

For those WHO STILL DONT GET IT.......

IF HE IS FAILING NOW.......HE SHOULD BE OFF THE TEAM NOW!!!! No waiting on some NCAA deadline that allows him to play...Who cares if he brings millions of bucks, there is a right and wrong and if he is still playing......ITS WRONG!

If my kid who is 14 is failing school. I dont wait until report cards come out to ban his butt from everying he likes to do....I find out hes failing a class.....He gets all things dear to him stopped A.S.A.P...........

UT1999-
I understand an athlete must make the necessary progress toward a degree. I was only speaking with personal experiences about my friends who attended your fantastic institution that would drop classes at the last minute if they weren't going to get the grade they desired. They could do this limitlessly with no adverse affect on their GPR, as long as they had the cash to burn on wasted tuition. Maybe they were the exception, not the rule, but I saw it happen A LOT for it to be an exception.

Bill, you can lick my balls. Seriously. You've posted such crap on here in the last few weeks you're hardly worth responding to. My opinions are just that, and in this case I choose to presume the rumor is true for the sake of argument and that PJ Tucker became ineligible for some reason after the results of the fall semester were known. I personally think it's bs a player would continue to be allowed to play. Again, perhaps Tucker is being mistaken for someone else or was actually doing Habitat for Humanity when he missed the class in question, or something. If he's eligible than I obviously have no beef with him personally; the rule still stinks.

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As for why the rules are the way they are, they are very easy to explain...John Thompson! ... He wielded a lot of power while still the coach at GTown and was the Jesse Jackson of college basketball.

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I just read this, UT1999. It explains a lot; no wonder the rule is so screwy. Thanks for the info.

" doing Habitat for Humanity " The only thing i can think of in austin were he would do that is one of the gay bars working as a big boy bouncer.....

one other reason for eligiblity beginngin at the beginning of the next semester is due to the bowl games...how many football teams would have several players (seniors or players who are planning on leaving) declared ineligible. While I might agree they maybe shouldn't be allowed to play, with all the money involved in the bowls this won't ever happen.

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Bill, you can lick my balls. Seriously.

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You actually have balls? I've seen no evidence.

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You've posted such crap on here in the last few weeks you're hardly worth responding to.

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And yet you do.

Tell me, what "crap" are you referring to? Like most Aggies, you seem wholly incapable of handling a differing opinion. Prove other wise or shut the hell up.

". . . Yeaaahhh."

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As for why the rules are the way they are, they are very easy to explain...John Thompson! He was very influential in many of the current NCAA rules and any rule that could potentially put a kid (particularly one of a minority background) from being able to play or even worse give them reason to drop out of school, was struck down. He wielded a lot of power while still the coach at GTown and was the Jesse Jackson of college basketball.

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Where did you get this garbage from? John Thompson had a 90+% graduation rate during his career at FREAKING GEORGETOWN, which is roundly regarded as an elite institution. Not only did John Thompson keep his kids in school but he GRADUATED them at an nearly unmatched rate. Iverson was the first player to leave early under him.

John Thompson did great job of getting his players to graduate, there is no debate about that. However he was always politicing for against rules changes that had little or no effect on his program. I guess the Jesse Jackson comparison was a bit harsh considering Jesse does his crap for money, Thompson always has great intentions.

You know what you're right the Jesse Jackson comparison clouded my judgement. I know what you're getting at, but IMO Nolan Richardson and George Raveling had more of a hand in changing things in the manner your comparison suggested. Thompson had a hand in that as well, but he seemed to do more of his work behind the scenes. I was young at the time so I could be wrong.



[This message has been edited by catdaddyhorn (edited 1/18/2005 2:13p).]

the difference is that John Thompson actaully garnered respect from other coaches and the media

Seeing as todays the day, whats the what???

GEEZ! This crap gets old...

For starters, not all Aggies are incapable of understanding a situation or dealing in logic, so don't hold the actions/opinions of a few against us all.

Asking why he's playing if he is failing is a bunch of crap. Athletes work on the progress meter, just like regular students at Texas A&M do...its a grade point deficiency-based system instead of a class failure scenario and it does not have to be enforced until the start of the next semester. It works something like this (I might miss this a bit but its close):

If student A has taken 32 hours of courses, he needs to have 64 grade points to be in good standing. If he does not, he is considered scholastically deficient. Every grade point below 2 x the amount of hours taken is a grade point deficient. Think of the situation as 3 ranges of grade point deficiency...something like this:

-1 to -10 : Your department has you on scholastic probation and you have to improve.

-11 to -18 : Your department is going to suspend you unless there is reason and/or someone in your corner...this can be appealed and the dept can let you continue.

more than 18 : Out of your department's hands...college or university boots you out of school.

Those numbers are just examples and they can give an idea, but each university, college and department sets its own rules from my understanding.

So, until his grades show up in the system (and they should know this long before its put out I would imagine), he is eligible. And almost any school would use one of their best players as long as they could...especially if they think the situation is appealable.

I've been through this first hand at A&M because of my parents both contracting terminal cancer and a lot of other crap...it has interrupted semesters and I'm having to make up incompletes. The department can help to a point, but once you pass a certain line, you're gone.

So there could be a reason he was automatically put on it but has a good reason to get off the list...then again, it could just be the athlete getting preferential treatment...we don't know and, more importantly, shouldn't care.

My two cents...

Chase '05

Good post, Chase.

My condolences regarding your parents.




". . . Yeaaahhh."

FOOTbevoMOUTH .....
Ive been trying to email you but I keep getting a delayed notice. I guess they're not going through, but I got your email about the extra 15... and I got it sent this morning

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one other reason for eligiblity beginngin at the beginning of the next semester is due to the bowl games...how many football teams would have several players (seniors or players who are planning on leaving) declared ineligible. While I might agree they maybe shouldn't be allowed to play, with all the money involved in the bowls this won't ever happen.

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I thought they changed the rule so that you could be ruled ineligible for the bowl game if you didn't pass enough classes in the fall. I thought I remembered Fran saying something about that while the players were studying for finals in December. Anyone know?

"We don't believe in moral victories." - Chris Walker

I was really shocked to hear about the Chris Collins issue. I spoke to some UT fans about this who are more informed than I am and they explained that we had been recruiting this kid for a few years. Chris actually gave his verbal commitment to UT last year (during his junior year) which is why he is listed as a 'comit'. The UT athletic department is letting the judicial process take its path and in a 'wait and see' mode.

Agthatsagirl - I agree with you. It is all part of the 'rivalry.' One of our guys gets caught smoking - you guys make fun of us. One of your guys gets caught smoking - we make fun of y'all for making fun of us. These are 18 year old kids we are dealing with - you just never know what they are gonna do.

Lastly.... as far as UT allowing you to drop courses - I graduated recently (in 02) and I was NEVER allowed to drop courses. There are only certain times when you can drop - for instance before the first 30 days of the semester, etc. You can't drop courses if it places you under a certain number of hours for the semester. You just can't, period - so if you guys know friend of friends of friends that did, they are lying. A student athelete must be making progress towards a degree - whether that is 9 or 12 hours, I don't know. It isn't as easy as you guys make it out to be.

Both of our schools are fine academic institutions. Anyone that goes around bashing the other school's academics is just proving himself to be a moron.

How do you all know that this is even about PJ failing something? Everything that I've heard from actual UT students is that he took a class at a community college over the summer, and there's a problem with how that class counts toward his degree. If it doesn't count, then he will not have taken and passed enough hours to be eligible under NCAA rules. It has apparently been ruled that the class doesn't count, and Tucker is appealing the decision.

I don't understand why this wasn't settled before he even took the class, but I believe that all students, not just student athletes, have until the 12th class day of the next semester to appeal their academic status from the previous semester. Today is only the 3rd class day. So PJ has the right to participate in school sponsored activities until his status is finally determined, just as a regular student would.

If PJ actually failed something for not going to class or not doing his work, then I'm pretty sure Rick Barnes would not be allowing him to play, whether he was appealing or not. It's easy for an Aggie to disagree with that, but Rick has some very strict rules regarding his players' behavior and their attendance in class. I'm pretty sure this is a technicality that neither Tucker nor Barnes were previously aware of, and Barnes is giving the kid the benefit of the doubt until it all gets straightened out.

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Lastly.... as far as UT allowing you to drop courses - I graduated recently (in 02) and I was NEVER allowed to drop courses. There are only certain times when you can drop - for instance before the first 30 days of the semester, etc. You can't drop courses if it places you under a certain number of hours for the semester. You just can't, period - so if you guys know friend of friends of friends that did, they are lying. A student athelete must be making progress towards a degree - whether that is 9 or 12 hours, I don't know. It isn't as easy as you guys make it out to be.

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This is true. You can drop a class through the 12th class day on your own, but you can only add classes through the third class day. Then for another week or two, you can drop, but only with the permission of the professor (Q-drop with the prof's permission, or the prof can give you an F for dropping without permission), and it goes on your record that you dropped the course. After that, only the dean can give you permission to drop, and it's only allowed under extenuating circumstances, which basically means you have to be in a coma. There are many cases where you won't even have taken your first exam for a course by the time the drop deadline passes. It sucks, but that's how they keep kids from screwing around for half the semester and then dropping to avoid failing their classes.

I believe student athletes have to be registered for at least 9 hours to be eligible. They have to have declared a major once they have completed 60 hours, and at all times, they have to be making progress toward an actual degree.

bassale47 has the correct story concerning PJ. His GPA is satisfactory the problem is that he has to have a certain number of hours towards his degree that correspond to his classification at UT. If this class that he took during the summer is ruled to not transfer towards degree plan then he wont have the necessary number of credits towards degree plan.

ESPN reporting he needed 6 hours in the semester and he didn't do it. I guess he was hoping to get that summer class credited toward his 6 hour requirement.

6 hours? That is what he didn't get. Did he only take 1 class in the fall or did he fail a few.

GPA is not being mentioned, but it stands to reason that if he couldn't get 6 hours of credit that he failed some classes, and I think that would hurt his GPA pretty severely.

This is a pretty inane thread filled with people who have are clearly casting stones whiel living in a Glass House.

Your school had 8 arrests from the football team last year alone. Most of the players are still with the team. Your football fans are drooling over signing Callahan Bright who was kicked off his HS team for getting involved in 2 major assaults.

The kid in question for sexual assault was recruited prior to his arrest. If he is indicted, he will never set foot on Texas' campus. Most people do not even count him as one of our signees and we are now going after an extra LB--a sign that we are assuming the worst.

NEITHER school has a moral advantage over the others. Both schools have had their share of shameful or at least questionable actions by players and administrators.

The difference between us AS FAR as this board seems is that ATM fans are taking the stacne their poop doesn't stink.

College sports has many legal and ethical problems and Texas and ATM are equally filled with these issues.

and yes, the issue with PJ is that one of his classes was determined to NOT count towards his degree plan. After the Fall semester was completed, not having this class count put him too far behind the minimum acceptable pace of coursework.

I don't know the exact rules, but a student athlete needs to have a certain pace towards their degree completed each semester to still be eligible.

Chap..... there is no way athletes at Texas only have to take 6 hours a semester. We are under the same NCAA rules as anyone else....

SAW-
Not sure what your post means or why it was directed to me.

Objective,
If that is true and it seems that there is a new spin everyday, that is unacceptable that PJ, the Texas coaches, and academic support staff would overlook that fact when registering for classes. Who are you going to fire?

Actually, reading the story with quotes from Barnes, Tucker, and Buckman, there is no way that Objectives story holds up.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNWZic251BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-texas-tucker&prov=ap&type=lgns

Gap:

You must not have learned to read. The article confirms what I said.

"University officials have refused to comment on details of Tucker's academic problems, citing federal privacy laws that protect student records. Tucker acknowledged that he did not earn enough credit hours to stay eligible"

That is 100% consistent with my post. If what I heard was right, the class he took at ACC this summer was ruled not to count towards his degree plan--we don't know why. AS I said, it means he did not earn enough credit hours to keep pace.

As far as who screwed up? Obviously PJ is responsible for his own mistakes. That said, it is plausible an administrator or tutor at UT gave him bad info or did not follow-up accordingly. That person should held accountable.

If he's an A&M recruit, he's innocent until proven guilty, if he's a tu recruit, he's a dirty rotten scoundrel who should be locked up.