The Marksman said:

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Pichael Thompson said:

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The Marksman said:

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Just a reminder that Oats is a terrible human being

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Well he's a choir boy compared to the ****stain at florida

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I get your point, but when did Golden ever support a murderer?

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He does appear he would very easily.

CapCityAg89 said:

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Muy said:

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When I was in hs in the 80's our district had Bryan, Killeen, Temple etc. The Killeen Kangaroos were one of the top teams in the nation and easily in 1st place in district.

The twins (The Webb Brothers) were simply incredible, but late in the season rules academically ineligible and had to forfeit all the games they played in.

Bryan HS goes from 3rd to 2nd in district. Makes the playoffs. Wins state. Yeah the district was that good.

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Which HS? I was at Bryan. I think that was our second title. Those kids were huge but massively (pun intended) uncoordinated.

That Viking team absolutely played Bucky Ball 40 years ago. Ok. No 3 points. our starting guards (DRhodes and Spot) were both about 5'9 but could dunk. Our center my sophomore year was Rod Bernstine (6'4) and Kenny Keller who played at Tech but only at 6'7. Full court press. Run run run.

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Westwood. We sucked. I remember Rod playing when I was a sophomore on JV, especially when he was Bryan's running back. How unfair was that! Lol

I remember your little guard and what a badass he was . You also had a player I think you called ET. One game against us the ball was going out of bounds and your PG threw the ball towards the goal, and ET jumped out of the gym and jammed it home.

Pretty sure our stands applauded.

The statement from the NCAA is pure comic gold. They claim Bediako was stealing the dreams of American high school athletes by trying to come back and play college ball.

I still don't get how they (and all of you) can act so righteous about amateurism and protecting high school athletes while also ruling European professional players eligible to play.

To me it's clear that there is a weird double standard here that needs to be resolved. I can't figure out why the NCAA has this soft spot for foreign professional players and is granting them eligibility if they are so concerned about scholarships for high school athletes.

That time was so awesome. The 84 team was probably a better basketball team. The guy you're talking about was a senior on a Junior dominated team. 83 was a bunch of athletes (namely Rod) and great coaching. 85 (senior year) Kenny wanted to be a football star and blew his knee. Had to walk on at Tech but ended up graduating from there. He's a cabinet maker now and looks like he could still go for 12 and 5.

CapCityAg89 said:

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That time was so awesome. The 84 team was probably a better basketball team. The guy you're talking about was a senior on a Junior dominated team. 83 was a bunch of athletes (namely Rod) and great coaching. 85 (senior year) Kenny wanted to be a football star and blew his knee. Had to walk on at Tech but ended up graduating from there. He's a cabinet maker now and looks like he could still go for 12 and 5.

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Yeah I still tell the story of how Bryan won state, then weren't even going to make the playoffs until Killeen had to forfeit their games the next season, then Bryan wins it again. The district those years was unreal, and Temple had a damn good team that 2nd year.

bobinator said:

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We've been going around on this since it first started and he refuses to acknowledge the difference between voluntarily forfeiting your college eligibility and never having it to begin with.

That said, there do need to be stricter rules for European professionals as well.

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Agree 100%. Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking he is making an apples vs oranges argument.

bobinator said:

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We've been going around on this since it first started and he refuses to acknowledge the difference between voluntarily forfeiting your college eligibility and never having it to begin with.

That said, there do need to be stricter rules for European professionals as well.

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Yeah. But what stricter rules could you have?

Every year you play of pro ball, no matter where it's played, counts as a year of college ball or something like that?

Sucks but he really wasn't even that good against us. Another fresh body vs our depth has to have helped though. Damn.

I don't really understand how any of it would need to be phrase to hold up legally, but for me it would basically be something like this: Starting with the academic year (9/1) following your 18th birthday, any year of professional basketball counts as a year against your college eligibility.

Examples: (these assume the current 5-to-play-4 clock)

- You turned 18 on July 1st, you played pro ball the year before, you are enrolling at an NCAA school in August: Perfectly fine, you enter with the normal clock.

- You turned 20 on December 15th last year. You have been playing pro ball for the last three seasons: The year you turned 18 doesn't count, but the next two do (the season you went from 18 to 19, and the season you went from 19 to 20.) You enter with two remaining years of eligibility.

- You're 23 and planning to enroll this fall with a January birthday, you've been playing pro basketball since you were 17: all five of your professional seasons from age 18-23 count, you have exhausted all five years of your clock, and are not eligible.

This kind of ties into this too but I'd also make it so that any professional basketball played during a calendar year makes you ineligible for that calendar year, and to be eligible you have to be enrolled and on your team's roster by December 31st.

This adding professional players midseason stuff is nonsense, but I'd allow for the very rare case of a high schooler or international amateur enrolling at the midterm and playing right away.

bobinator said:

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I don't really understand how any of it would need to be phrase to hold up legally, but for me it would basically be something like this: Starting with the academic year (9/1) following your 18th birthday, any year of professional basketball counts as a year against your college eligibility.

Examples: (these assume the current 5-to-play-4 clock)

- You turned 18 on July 1st, you played pro ball the year before, you are enrolling at an NCAA school in August: Perfectly fine, you enter with the normal clock.

- You turned 20 on December 15th last year. You have been playing pro ball for the last three seasons: The year you turned 18 doesn't count, but the next two do (the season you went from 18 to 19, and the season you went from 19 to 20.) You enter with two remaining years of eligibility.

- You're 23 and planning to enroll this fall with a January birthday, you've been playing pro basketball since you were 17: all five of your professional seasons from age 18-23 count, you have exhausted all five years of your clock, and are not eligible.

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Yeah, that, or something like it, is probably the only sensible way to do it

NyAggie said:

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bobinator said:

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I don't really understand how any of it would need to be phrase to hold up legally, but for me it would basically be something like this: Starting with the academic year (9/1) following your 18th birthday, any year of professional basketball counts as a year against your college eligibility.

Examples: (these assume the current 5-to-play-4 clock)

- You turned 18 on July 1st, you played pro ball the year before, you are enrolling at an NCAA school in August: Perfectly fine, you enter with the normal clock.

- You turned 20 on December 15th last year. You have been playing pro ball for the last three seasons: The year you turned 18 doesn't count, but the next two do (the season you went from 18 to 19, and the season you went from 19 to 20.) You enter with two remaining years of eligibility.

- You're 23 and planning to enroll this fall with a January birthday, you've been playing pro basketball since you were 17: all five of your professional seasons from age 18-23 count, you have exhausted all five years of your clock, and are not eligible.

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Yeah, that, or something like it, is probably the only sensible way to do it

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Yep. This makes total sense. Is supremely fair. Has little ambiguity. Will never happen.

I was wondering if anyone had the same opinion of Nate Oats as I do. Evidently so...

Muy said:

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TombstoneTex said:

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Sucks but he really wasn't even that good against us. Another fresh body vs our depth has to have helped though. Damn.

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He scored 5 points, and we lost by 3.

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So what you're saying is you agree that he wasn't that good against us?

I think the most fair thing to do would be to remove this game from both of our records. We don't deserve a win because who knows if someone else steps in for a meager 5 points. It's not like he went off for 25 and was the clear difference in the game. However, we also shouldn't have a loss against a team playing someone who was ineligible and did give them extra depth.

Just my two cents.

bobinator said:

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I don't really understand how any of it would need to be phrase to hold up legally, but for me it would basically be something like this: Starting with the academic year (9/1) following your 18th birthday, any year of professional basketball counts as a year against your college eligibility.

Examples: (these assume the current 5-to-play-4 clock)

- You turned 18 on July 1st, you played pro ball the year before, you are enrolling at an NCAA school in August: Perfectly fine, you enter with the normal clock.

- You turned 20 on December 15th last year. You have been playing pro ball for the last three seasons: The year you turned 18 doesn't count, but the next two do (the season you went from 18 to 19, and the season you went from 19 to 20.) You enter with two remaining years of eligibility.

- You're 23 and planning to enroll this fall with a January birthday, you've been playing pro basketball since you were 17: all five of your professional seasons from age 18-23 count, you have exhausted all five years of your clock, and are not eligible.

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I like it, but you'd have to also have some sort of cut-off level at the top end where you are no longer eligible for college basketball, no matter what. Maybe its once you sign a full-time NBA contract (not a 2-way deal) or reach XYZ level in international basketball ... you can't have Luka Doncic or Lebron James play their rookie year in the NBA and then try to come back to play college basketball (thats an extreme example, obviously).

You also wouldn't want some guy playing 3 years full time in the NBA, being a starter, and then trying to come back to school. At some point, you've been exposed to the advantages and play of a professional long enough to where its just not fair, even if your 4 (or 5) years haven't been exhausted.

I'd also take it one step further and say for all American high school athletes, you have a 5-year clock and it starts on 9/1 the year after you graduate high school, period. No going to minor league baseball for 3 years and then trying to get 5 years of college, no taking a gap year, no medical redshirts ... you've got 5 years to play 5 once you graduate high, period.

What does this mean for baylors nba player?

There I think you're getting into some legally difficult ground to stand on.

Of course this would be much easier if there was just some kind of collective bargaining that players had to opt into to become NCAA athletes.

I fully acknowledged this. " Another fresh body vs our depth has to have helped though."

zooguy96 said:

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They should lose any game that they won when he played. He was an ineligible player all along.

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He was legally illegible at that time.

Hell he still could end up being eligible eventually. He could be on the team next year if the court rules in his favor this summer.

Bob, correct me if I'm wrong but I think you were describing non-US pro leagues. Mainly Euro academies and their pro feeds.

US is fine. One and done takes care of ambiguity. You choose to leave, you're done (Bediako). JC doesn't count against your eligibility. You get five years in D1-3 or G League to play 4.

Yeah, I think the US system is more or less fine. Plus an American player is going to be aware that opting into any pro league is going to void your college eligibility (say a high school senior opts for Europe over college, they'd know that that choice forfeits their eligibility.) An International player doesn't have that awareness.

The one thing I can't quite decide how I feel about is Juco seasons. I think my current feeling is that Juco seasons, no matter how many of them you played, count as one year against your eligibility.

This would also all get a little simpler if they'd move to a 5-to-play-5 model and scrap non-medical redshirts completely.

bobinator said:

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We've been going around on this since it first started and he refuses to acknowledge the difference between voluntarily forfeiting your college eligibility and never having it to begin with.

That said, there do need to be stricter rules for European professionals as well.

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This is not true. I refuse to acknowledge that only American born players are subject to this idea of forfeiting eligibility by going pro. I have cited multiple times the statement directly from the NCAA where they themselves state that "they maintain that anyone who signs an NBA contract (either after playing college ball or directly out of high school) is permanently ineligible. This part bothers me. Why not say anyone with professional experience is ineligible? Why have an exception carved out for Euro players that play pro ball first?

True that Bediako's situation includes the idea of playing college ball, then playing pro ball, and then trying to come back. But even if he'd never played at Bama, the NCAA would have ruled him ineligible for playing in an NBA affiliated league on a 2-way.

I 100% understand that he "forfeited" his eligibility by signing a contract. I actually care very little about him in particular. I care about fairness in the sport and a consistent application of rules no matter where you are born.

But there are now dozens of Europeans playing NCAA ball that are held to a different standard than US players.

Also, the NCAA's asinine statement about "protecting high school athletes" opportunity to get scholarships does not jive with the reality of allowing older European professional players to play.

This article should be worrisome, but apparently losers like Bediako are what worry you all. Just look at the quotes from those coaches. Everyone is in a tizzy about Bediako but we have like 50-75 professional Euros out there. Clearly a bigger issue for protecting high school athletes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox32chicago.com/sports/college-basketball-has-influx-international-talent-teams-like-illini-benefit.amp

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New Virginia coach Ryan Odom started two players from top European pro leagues in 6-9 Belgian forward Thijs De Ridder (played in Spain) and 7-footer Johan Grnloh (Germany), getting a combined 33 points and 17 rebounds in Monday's win against Rider.

"The guys that we have, they've played. They're not typical freshmen," said St. Bonaventure coach Mark Schmidt, who added players from Russia, Italy and Ireland this offseason.

"Over there they've played against men for a number of years. So we're getting guys that are schooled. ... Not that the American isn't well-coached. But just fundamentally, they're so advanced, (more) than the typical 17-year-old high school kid."

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Muy said:

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TombstoneTex said:

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Sucks but he really wasn't even that good against us. Another fresh body vs our depth has to have helped though. Damn.

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He scored 5 points, and we lost by 3.

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. And a block.

Luke The Drifter said:

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The Bama wins may eventually be "vacated" but they won't count as forfeits. This sort of thing happens all the time in all leagues across all sports. It even happened to A&M several years ago. "Touchdown" Tiki Hardeman was academically ineligible, but we played him anyway. He scored 3 TDs against Louisiana Tech, I believe, and the Ags won something like 28-7. Granted, all 3 of his TD runs were 3 yards or less, but still...we knowingly played an ineligible player so we later had to "vacate" the win. All of the official scorebooks still show an A&M victory, so ultimately nothing happened to us.

Sammy Morris at tech was a similar situation. He scored the game winning TD against us at Kyle field then a few days later (coincidentally, of course...wink...wink...) tech revealed he had a GPA similar to Blutarski from Animal House.

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I was standing in the south end zone as I watched Morris catch that deep pass and run for the TD. God I hate tech!