Who are your top five role players since BCG era

I apologize if I've made this thread before. The internet has fried my brain.

Andy
Kirk
Roland
Walker
Bobby Leach

Replace Bobby Leach with Nathan Walkup. I like the rest of the lineup.

Method Man said:

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Andy
Kirk
Roland
Walker
Bobby Leach

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Like the list, but would suggest BJ Holmes and Admon Gilder.

1) Alex Caruso - Put as a role player because he only averaged 8 points a game but excelled in other roles. Most probably don't consider him a "role player" but it's my list - deal with it
2) Derrick Rolland - What a defensive beast!
3) Nathan Walkup - Favorite role player from my time at A&M.
4) C.J. Wilcher - I think we have underutilized his talent.
5) Admon Gilder

ETA #5 - Uncle Jimbo had a good point.

Wilcher feels like an odd choice, especially given that he is on the same team as an all-time great role player.

He probably was underutilized as a specialist, but he otherwise doesn't create much on either end of the floor.

Since "favorite" is the qualifier and how good they are doesn't matter, here are some guys that were just fun to watch for various reasons:

1) Marlon
2) Ray Turner
3) Henry Coleman
4) Fabyon Harris
5) Josh Carter

Solo might be up theee

I almost put Solo in my top 5 but he's still got another year to become a feature player. I feel like once you become a feature player you're no longer eligible for this list even if you were a role player for most of your career right? Though I guess by that logic Josh Carter is probably ineligible as well.

Tonny Trocha-Morelos
Andy
Josh Carter
Marlon
Walkup

Kirk
Solo
D-Ro
Andy
Kavaliauskas
Jalen Jones
Walker

I did 7, shoot me

bobinator said:

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I almost put Solo in my top 5 but he's still got another year to become a feature player. I feel like once you become a feature player you're no longer eligible for this list even if you were a role player for most of your career right? Though I guess by that logic Josh Carter is probably ineligible as well.

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Yes freshman Carter is eligible?

Andy
Solo
BJ Holmes
AK
Kirk

bobinator said:

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I almost put Solo in my top 5 but he's still got another year to become a feature player. I feel like once you become a feature player you're no longer eligible for this list even if you were a role player for most of your career right? Though I guess by that logic Josh Carter is probably ineligible as well.

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Carter is a weird one (that I have on my list as well), because even though he was either a Top 3/4 scoring option or the teams leading scorer, it just kinda feels like he was never "top-billed" player on any of those teams, maybe because he was kind of a gap/bridge guy between BCG and Turgeon and there were other "big names" on each of those teams.

He definitely was behind Acie/Joe/AK on the last two BGC teams (from a "top billing" standpoint), and then when it moved to Turge, you had senior Joe Jones, the sophomore trio of Sloan/Roland/Davis and DeAndre Jordan in that first year, and then his senior year, the Dallas 3 were established stars on that team.

With respect to what he did at A&M and how long he was there (and consistently good), he should not be a "roll player," but it just feels that way.

Scotts Tot said:

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Wilcher feels like an odd choice, especially given that he is on the same team as an all-time great role player.

He probably was underutilized as a specialist, but he otherwise doesn't create much on either end of the floor.

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I would not have him on my top 5 if it was a list of best instead of favorite, and he'll probably fall off the list quickly once gone. He was nice to my son in person and so I have a soft spot for Wilcher. Hope he goes off and get's a crazy 8/10 from 3 game (or something to that effect) in the next month!

He did lead the 2009 team in both scoring and minutes played per game, but yeah I agree that it felt like the stars of that team were more Sloan and Davis for sure.

Method Man said:

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Andy
Kirk
Roland
Walker
Bobby Leach

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I'm not sure I can consider Andy a role player. He's too integral a piece and too exceptional at the thing he does well.

When your entire team is based on rebounding and you have a guy on the team who's the best rebounder in the country, can he still be a role player because he doesn't score much?

I'm more inclined to consider Solo a role player than Andy.

If Andy and Solo are both role players, then we have two of the best in the country at doing the one thing they do really well.

The fact that you said "at the thing he does well" is what makes him a role player.

bobinator said:

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The fact that you said "at the thing he does well" is what makes him a role player.

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Is it? Because you can have a supporting guy who does multiple things well but none of them really well. Henry rebounds, provides some complementary interior scoring,and is a defensive lynchpin with his ability to switch and communicate/set the defense, but I would call him a role player.

Andy would still be useful as a versatile defender and complementary facilitator if he was 60% of the rebounder he is, and I would call him a role player. But he's one of the best rebounders in the country and our team is built on that particular skill.

If we had a dominant interior defender and shot blocker who we funneled everyone towards, and we won based on that, that dude is a star not a role player.

What if the one thing your guy does well is score the ball?

Scoring the ball is different, surely we can all agree on that.

Also, Andy's not the best rebounder in the country. By the numbers he's not even the best rebounder on our team, Payne is. (Total rebounds per 40 mins).

But yes, the "at the thing he does well" is the difference. If you say someone is a great player, people are going to expect that player to be great at multiple aspects of the game, and usually that includes scoring the ball.

This isn't a knock on Andy, but someone who comes off the bench and is mostly a rebound specialist is definitely a role player. A very important role player, but a role player.

I think Taylor and Phelps are definitely feature players and everyone else is definitely a role player except maybe Payne, he's the one where I think the debate is.

DTP02 said:

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bobinator said:

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The fact that you said "at the thing he does well" is what makes him a role player.

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Is it? Because you can have a supporting guy who does multiple things well but none of them really well. Henry rebounds, provides some complementary interior scoring,and is a defensive lynchpin with his ability to switch and communicate/set the defense, but I would call him a role player.

What if the one thing your guy does well is score the ball?

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Being that its the most impactful component of basketball and winning, I'd say a guy that really scores the ball well is going to be a star player (not a role player) almost every time, unless he's not playing enough minutes.

You'd never use the phrase "at the thing he does well" if you are talking about an elite scorer, because thats the most fundamental "thing to do well" to be an elite basketball player, and it has the highest impact on the game.

Also, IMO, part of what differentiates a "role player" and a "star player" has to be attention/exposure/mass recognition of said player, both by the other team during scouting and from a marketing/pr standpoint. I think that part of the definition is why I personally have Josh Carter on my role player, just because when you think about him, the entirety of who he was as a player at A&M doesn't scream "star player."

He was overshadowed by different guys on each team he was on, wasn't a major portion of the marketing and/or promotion for those teams (except maybe his senior year) and wasn't an outspoken guy.

But when you look at the numbers, you'd be like "holy crap, this guy was the best or second best player on every A&M team he was on."

Now "comes off the bench" is a factor? We bring Andy off the bench because he likes it better. He's third on the team in minutes.

And it's his offensive rebounding which is exceptional and which is what our offense attack is built around. He's a good defensive rebounder but an elite offensive rebounder- best in the SEC and #2 in the nation last year. We could probably pad his defensive rebounding stats too if we used him a little differently defensively.

If Andy is just a role player then he probably belongs in the role player HOF, which probably means he's not just a role player in my mind.

bobinator said:

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I think Taylor and Phelps are definitely feature players and everyone else is definitely a role player except maybe Payne, he's the one where I think the debate is.

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Payne doesn't feel like a role player to me because he's our best (by a long shot) inside scorer and, as you mentioned, the best rebounder on the team this year. Next year he will probably be in the conversation for best big man in the league.

Talent and talent-potential also has to come into play, right? Payne has the talent and potential to take over a game on any given night (if we could just get him the freaking ball) and yet still will get a lot better in the offseason. His ceiling is way higher, from an impact perspective, than Andy or Coleman or even Solo.

1. Marlon Pompey
2. Marlon Pompey
3. Marlon Pompey
4. Andy Garcia
5. Deandre Jordan (wasted so much talent by not playing him enough)

Also one more thing, Andy does more than just rebound the basketball. He has a high basketball IQ on the defensive side of the ball; he almost seems to be at the right place at the right time. I don't think you could just label him as a rebounder.

However, I've yet to hear a "star" player whose specialty is defense in college basketball. Typically a star player is who can take over the game and affect the outcome by scoring and/or creating for teammates.

In my mind a role player affects the game in one or two ways.

It's definitely a factor. How many star players come off the bench? Some, but not many.

I don't even think this is debatable. Raw stats aren't very good for much but a guy that sixth on the team in scoring and averaging 6 boards a game can't be a star player. He might lead us in rebounds per game, but the only way you can be a star player at 5.6 points per game is if you're putting up like Tsheibwe numbers on the boards or something and also racking up blocks maybe.

We all love Andy, and you're not wrong, he might be the best role player in school history, but he is a role player.

"DeAndre Jordan didn't play enough" is an interesting new take.

Yeah I tend to think Payne is a featured player. There's definitely a vibes aspect of this that's hard to exactly pin down. By the numbers he looks like a role player, but he doesn't feel like one. Probably because about once a game he punches a dunk on someone's head.

I recall Turgeon being pretty candid about wishing he could play DeAndre more, but he was just too raw of a product and error prone. Talent was clearly there, he just wasn't ready.

Does Bryan Davis fit in here?

Was not a high stats guy, just played selfless, mean, physical defense down low.

I remember watching him a lot on teams that had Kirk and D-Ro.

bobinator said:

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"DeAndre Jordan didn't play enough" is an interesting new take.

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He didn't play enough because he went pro after being here only a year… maybe? If my memory serves me correctly, he started and played a major role defending the rim and could only score inside 5 feet. His foul shooting was Shaq-esque. That said, he was not a "role player" in the traditional sense of the word. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he our only one and done player we've ever had?

He was given every opportunity to play early but his minutes dwindled as it became clear he had no idea how to play basketball.

cutter said:

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I recall Turgeon being pretty candid about wishing he could play DeAndre more, but he was just too raw of a product and error prone. Talent was clearly there, he just wasn't ready.

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I've been like the team captain of "DeAndre was actually quite a bit better than people remember" and even I don't think he needed more minutes. He played 20 minutes a game, that's more than Payne is currently playing and he was sharing a front court with Joseph Jones and Bryan Davis.

Andy
Shanne Jones
BJ Holmes (imagine if we had someone of his shooting ability)
Marlon
DRo