NE PA Ag said:

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Long article on ESPN men's homepage about realistic and unrealistic IU replacement possibilities, starting with Brad Stevens (highly unlikely of course).

Buzz is listed as the best candidate that would listen if the top targets say no. I'd take it with a grain of salt of course, but IU is (kind of?) still a blueblood with better support than A&M, but I do feel like Buzz likes being home in Texas.

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There is no world where the Indiana Hoosiers are not blue bloods despite the color on their uniforms. I question their AD for how they manage it though. This seasons NIL budget (if it's as reported) is encouraging. [/IU grad school alum from the end of the Knight tenure]

They have one final four in the last 30 years. If they're still considered a blue blood then there's like 30 blue bloods. They made a title game run in '02 and since then they've basically been us.

OP updated with Indiana officially in the game

Five national championships and eight final fours. Yep. Basically the same as us. Carolina has six. Kansas has six. Duke also with five. UCLA has 11 but one in 95 since Wooden in the 70s and 2 FF in those same 30 years. Kentucky has eight.

What exactly is a blue blood then? Walk on the court at Assembly Hall and say Indiana isn't one.

I said "since then", not of all time. Obviously our history is nothing like theirs but don't you have to do something to maintain blue blood status?

Since most college basketball players were alive they have the same number of tournament appearances (10), the same number of Sweet 16s (3), and neither of us have made it past that.

Their last national championship was almost 40 years ago.

I'm not saying we're Indiana, I'm saying Indiana isn't on the same level as other "blue bloods."

CapCityAg89 said:

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Five national championships and eight final fours. Yep. Basically the same as us. Carolina has six. Kansas has six. Duke also with five. UCLA has 11 but one in 95 since Wooden in the 70s and 2 FF in those same 30 years. Kentucky has eight.

What exactly is a blue blood then? Walk on the court at Assembly Hall and say Indiana isn't one.

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You left one out, who did you leave out?

We need to do some research on potential replacements if Buzz were to leave or retire. I haven't kept as close an eye on the lower ranks as I used to.

UConn always gets left out, probably because they don't have the history, all of their success has come in the last 30 years, whereas the other blue bloods date back 100 years.

UConn is a blue blood in my book, they've done more in 30 years than several "blue bloods" have done in those 100 years.

Hell, Villanova was knocking at the door until Wright walked away. But Nova and even Florida have been FAR better than Indiana since the 1985 (tournament era).

_lefraud_ said:

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UConn always gets left out, probably because they don't have the history, all of their success has come in the last 30 years, whereas the other blue bloods date back 100 years.

UConn is a blue blood in my book, they've done more in 30 years than several "blue bloods" have done in those 100 years.

Hell, Villanova was knocking at the door until Wright walked away. But Nova and even Florida have been FAR better than Indiana since the 1985 (tournament era).

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You're exactly right, people would always make the argument that UConn doesn't have the extended history, but they must be included. I'd argue them against Duke for more distant history, though Duke did have a few Final 4 appearances before their first title in 1991.

You have to have won a 'ship in at least the last 38 years to maintain blue blood status

Surely you gotta make at least a decent run at it in the last 20 years right? I guess we could call it 25 and say their blue blood status is on life support.

Yeah. I realized after the post that I'd left UConn off. With that said, does BB come with success automatically? I'd say a good chunk is first mover - who invested and got passionate first. History. I've been to Cameron, Rupp and obviously Assembly Hall. Only real destination arena I'm missing is Fogg-Allen.

I'm telling you, those places hit harder. I loved and miss GRW but (and granted it might've been over-familiarity) but it was just old. Not historic.

I don't know man. Maybe I am just old but the teams everyone knew when I was a kid - that's a blue blood to me.

bobinator said:

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Surely you gotta make at least a decent run at it in the last 20 years right? I guess we could call it 25 and say their blue blood status is on life support.

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****ing Myles Brand. I'd say, you have to be a spare for as long as you were a blue blood. IU won its first NC in 1940, weakened after firing coach night and probably tapped to spare level with 2002 FF. So they have another 35 years.

UConn is definitely a blue blood.

With Indiana, while their on-court results in the last 25 years don't support it, for various reasons that have nothing to do with wins and losses they still remain an iconic college basketball brand.

I don't know what category that falls into, but blue bloods seems appropriate.

So IF IU is a blue blood, who is the "best" coach in the country - is there a Bill Self out there where a blue blood might poach a NC or that caliber coach?

Gotta be Dan Hurley, right? Self and Izzo are too old. Sheyer and Davis are unproven and no NC. Wright and Donovan aren't coming back. Drew?!

I hadn't really thought about it but the star hoops coach is at kindof a low right now.

I should be working at Indiana starting next year, so I'll take the pulse while I'm there and let you know if it's a Blue Blood or not.

It'd be my good fortune if they could somehow pull a top coach and revitalize the program when I arrive. I was able to fix A&M in 2004 with BCG, so maybe I can bring some more good vibes.

CapCityAg89 said:

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So IF IU is a blue blood, who is the "best" coach in the country - is there a Bill Self out there where a blue blood might poach a NC or that caliber coach?

Gotta be Dan Hurley, right? Self and Izzo are too old. Sheyer and Davis are unproven and no NC. Wright and Donovan aren't coming back. Drew?!

I hadn't really thought about it but the star hoops coach is at kindof a low right now.

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I think the best coach out there without a NC that they could realistically poach is Beard. They just have to be willing to overlook his baggage.

This is mostly just me hating the "blue bloods" debate. Who cares?

20 years ago Oklahoma State was a powerhouse and people thought GIA was one of the best/most historic/loudest/whatever arenas in the country and now they absolutely suck and nobody cares about them at all,

Your program is only as good as your ability to keep good coaches and/or hire new ones year to year. Nobody cares about the old dusty banners up in your rafters.

Yeah I mean the old guard mostly all retired in the last few years. Pitino and Izzo are still in the game.

I also think there's two trends that have changed things lately, I think great coaches at second level jobs are staying put more often (imagine telling someone in like 1996 that the Baylor coach would turn down Kentucky) and too many programs are trying to "think outside the box" and are hiring former players or NBA guys. Put that in quotes because it's not really thinking outside the box if a handful of programs are doing it every year.

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Nobody cares about the old dusty banners up in your rafters.

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I disagree with this. A school's pedigree plays a role in their ability to lure coaching talent.

If it didn't, there would be absolutely zero talk about Buzz going from Texas A&M to Indiana.

I don't know if he's been mentioned but if I were Indiana I'd take a pretty hard look at Chris Jans. His style of basketball fits well in the Big 10 and he has taken New Mexico St and Miss St to the tourney seemingly every year.

Eh, it's not surprising to see Buzz floated here. He doesn't stay anywhere all that long, people don't think we're super competitive with NIL, he's a coach a top ten team that doesn't have an absolutely insane contract/buy out already. I get why he's mentioned and don't think it has a ton to do with how good Indiana was 40 years ago.

It's more about how much they're willing to do to be competitive again and that the other really good coaches at schools like ours (Oats, Pearl, for example) are prohibitively expensive.

Your reasoning isn't wrong as to why Buzz's name is being proposed. My point I guess is that the only reason I might think Buzz would listen to them is what they did 40 years ago. If it was Northwestern I wouldn't even consider Buzz (or someone of Buzz's caliber) to be realistic.

I don't see Buzz dragging his family back to the midwest. He makes a lot at TAMU.
He is from a small town in Texas. He is under contract thru 2028. I think he is likely to retire from coaching
here, and maybe teach if he still wants employment.

Yeah but even the last 10-20 years they've been a lot better than a Northwestern. I get what you're saying, but I guess my perspective is that if, say, Oklahoma were to come open. Are we confident Indiana would land the coach they want if Oklahoma wants the same coach?

(I realize that 15 years ago Indiana hired Oklahoma's coach, but the game has changed a lot in those 15 years..)

I'm not remotely worried about Buzz going to Indiana, but neither would it completely surprise me. Buzz is an odd guy. He left Marquette for Virginia Tech of all places.

Yeah I'd be more surprised if Indiana wants him than if he wants to go to Indiana.

Doubt much interest from either party!

CBS

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/indiana-coach-candidates-michigans-dusty-may-texas-a-ms-buzz-williams-lead-options-to-replace-mike-woodson/

I think the Indy Star has a good read on this. Sounds like they'd need to miss on quite a few other people first.

I don't agree with you here. There is a number out there (dollars and years) that would make almost any coach listen on any program. Northwestern isn't in these discussions because the numbers they are willing to pay aren't huge. All they are willing to do is to match what guys are currently making or a slight raise and unsurprisingly that isn't going to let them poach a top name.

If DePaul or St. Bonaventure suddenly decides they want to win and want to pay Oats 20 million a year, he'd listen. Any of us would.

BYU just bought the number 1 recruit in the country, so even what we thought we knew about talent acquisition doesn't really mean much anymore. Rutgers bought the 2 best players last year. So as a coach, you don't have to worry about being at a talent deficit almost no matter where you go if the NIL funds are there to support you.

As Bob stated, the idea that the Baylor coach would still be at Baylor despite success would have been insane 20 years ago. But now, he makes pretty much max money, has the NIL to pull top guys, and isn't really at a competitive disadvantage at all by staying at Baylor. Any school in the country can create these conditions for a top coach if they are willing to pay. The only lure that the 'blue bloods' have at this point is that some of those programs might be dream jobs for some guys. But those jobs also come with pressure to win every year which likely outweighs whatever lure the dream job might have had.

I mean, yeah. If Sam Houston State offered Dan Hurley a billion dollars he'd listen, right?

Money is always a game changer, always has been. I'm sure Wooden could have been pried away from UCLA for the right amount of money.

This isn't new.

I just hope we can enjoy this ride and not turn every thread into a Buzz/Indiana thread. Trying to guess what's really going on inside Buzz's head is basically astrology.

He could retire or leave for Miami and neither would surprise me.

bobinator said:

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I just hope we can enjoy this ride and not turn every thread into a Buzz/Indiana thread. Trying to guess what's really going on inside Buzz's head is basically astrology.

He could retire or leave for Miami and neither would surprise me.

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They're already talking about Buzz leaving on the Mizzou post game press conference thread.