only one or two thirds of the statement is true
Has Buzz arrived?
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Last: 18 hrs ago by t - cam
Next year will tell. He looses alot of players
I'd say Buzz's first two years being Covid years can basically be lumped into one. The next 3 years have been where he started getting his team in place and almost won the NIT, dominated through SEC play and ran into a hot three-point shooting team in the tournament, and almost beat a good Houston team to make it to the sweet 16. This year we are set up for a strong season as a contender. 4 years of solid teams that can compete.
Next year will no doubt be a rebuild year. That's okay, having one rebuild year and then 3-4 years as a solid team is great given our level of support for basketball. We don't support basketball like Kentucky to expect a strong contender every year, there will be tough rebuild years mixed in unless we up our NIL and support for basketball which I hope we do.
The key will be limiting the rough rebuild year to one every 3-4 years. Even in our 3-4 year windows we can't always expect deep runs because it's basketball and anything can happen in the tournament.
Given our level of support for basketball, Buzz has been great. He does more with less for sure. I hope we as a program up our support for basketball.
Next year will no doubt be a rebuild year. That's okay, having one rebuild year and then 3-4 years as a solid team is great given our level of support for basketball. We don't support basketball like Kentucky to expect a strong contender every year, there will be tough rebuild years mixed in unless we up our NIL and support for basketball which I hope we do.
The key will be limiting the rough rebuild year to one every 3-4 years. Even in our 3-4 year windows we can't always expect deep runs because it's basketball and anything can happen in the tournament.
Given our level of support for basketball, Buzz has been great. He does more with less for sure. I hope we as a program up our support for basketball.
If we lump the Covid years together, we've had one season with a winning record in conference. Granted that one season was good, but let's not act like Buzz has been consistently good in his tenure here as this thread seems to be suggesting. He's barely over .500 in conference play. We've had to make magical runs in the SEC tournament to make the NCAAs twice. He's been mediocre at best. (which for us seems to be good enough)tcamp1111 said:
dominated through SEC play
He needs a deep tourney run this season in order to have "arrived" in terms of bringing A&M to a place of prominence at a national level. But like others have mentioned, next year we lose a ton of talent. If he can't replace that and we are rebuilding next year anyway, how is that an arrival?
Dominated through SEC play was specifically referring to the 2022-2023 season where he went 15-3 in conference play.
There's a lot battlefield for exactly how good Buzz has been here but this is a pretty one-sided way of looking at things.jc1402 said:If we lump the Covid years together, we've had one season with a winning record in conference. Granted that one season was good, but let's not act like Buzz has been consistently good in his tenure here as this thread seems to be suggesting. He's barely over .500 in conference play. We've had to make magical runs in the SEC tournament to make the NCAAs twice. He's been mediocre at best. (which for us seems to be good enough)tcamp1111 said:
dominated through SEC play
We didn't have to make "magical runs" in the SEC Tournament either year. In 2023 we were in the field even if we lose our first game at the SECT. You don't jump from "out" to a seven seed by beating Arkansas and Vanderbilt. And last year we were probably in once we beat Ole Miss. Nothing magical about beating a team you just beat four days earlier on their own court. Beating Kentucky sealed the deal, as proof we ended up a 9 seed, not an 11 in the play-in games, but that was also a team we'd already beaten, not exactly a miracle needed. And we didn't even make the championship game or anything.
But this is a topic to revisit after this season because you're right that this is a peak season, and we need to see what a peak season looks like.
With the victory over tu, Buzz tied Billy Kennedy for 200th on the all-time men's basketball wins list with
362 career wins
*** edit to clarify the all-time NCAA career wins list.
362 career wins
*** edit to clarify the all-time NCAA career wins list.
rlb28 said:
With the victory over tu, Buzz tied Billy Kennedy for 200th on the all-time men's basketball wins list with
362 career wins
*** edit to clarify - the all-time NCAA career wins list not the A&M career wins list
Yeah your post made me curious on how he stacked up at A&M
Add Gillespie's three years - 70-26 at 73% winning percentage.
Interesting to note that Gillespie's all-time winning percentage from UTEP, A&M, Kentucky, TxTech and Tarleton is a meager 56%.
Interesting to note that Gillespie's all-time winning percentage from UTEP, A&M, Kentucky, TxTech and Tarleton is a meager 56%.
LOL WTF is this horse****?jc1402 said:If we lump the Covid years together, we've had one season with a winning record in conference. Granted that one season was good, but let's not act like Buzz has been consistently good in his tenure here as this thread seems to be suggesting. He's barely over .500 in conference play. We've had to make magical runs in the SEC tournament to make the NCAAs twice. He's been mediocre at best. (which for us seems to be good enough)tcamp1111 said:
dominated through SEC play
He needs a deep tourney run this season in order to have "arrived" in terms of bringing A&M to a place of prominence at a national level. But like others have mentioned, next year we lose a ton of talent. If he can't replace that and we are rebuilding next year anyway, how is that an arrival?
We've played 4 full SEC regular seasons under Buzz Williams and our records are 10-8, 9-9, 15-3, and 9-9. "We've had one season with a winning record in conferece" is an INSANE level of twisting the facts,
If we combine all of the losses into just one game though he's like 45-1 in conference play.
LOL. I'm assuming he meant "throw out" the COVID years? He's actually wanting to combine a full season with winning record with the next year to make them both into losing seasons?
Agreed, the runs were magical (getting to CCG) but maybe not necessary to get in the tourney, so that may be hyperbole. But my point stands that we were bubble teams at the end of those regular seasons. Which in the grand scheme of CBB and given Buzz's reputation- is pretty meh.
So to the original point of this thread - we beat our rival which is great, but they are likely at the bottom of the barrel of the conference this year. There's no way to say he has "arrived" at this point. He has been mediocre overall, already lost two boneheaded games this season, and the toughest part of our schedule just started. We can't say anything until much later in the season.
So to the original point of this thread - we beat our rival which is great, but they are likely at the bottom of the barrel of the conference this year. There's no way to say he has "arrived" at this point. He has been mediocre overall, already lost two boneheaded games this season, and the toughest part of our schedule just started. We can't say anything until much later in the season.
If you get us to the tournament three straight seasons it doesn't matter how you did it or if you were the last team in the field all three years and it would take a monumental collapse for us to miss it this year.
Only two coaches have ever even gotten us into the tournament twice in a row, one of them was immediately hired by Kentucky, and the only coach that's ever gotten us to the tournament three (and four) times a in a row was hired by Maryland.
Whether we like it or not long-term, that's really the benchmark here at A&M.
Maybe that's mediocre nationally, but mediocre nationally over the course of several seasons makes you one of the best coaches in A&M history.
Only two coaches have ever even gotten us into the tournament twice in a row, one of them was immediately hired by Kentucky, and the only coach that's ever gotten us to the tournament three (and four) times a in a row was hired by Maryland.
Whether we like it or not long-term, that's really the benchmark here at A&M.
Maybe that's mediocre nationally, but mediocre nationally over the course of several seasons makes you one of the best coaches in A&M history.
The original person I responded to said to lump the covid years together, so I did.
2019-2020 10-8
2020-2021 2-8
That's 12-16
?
Overall his conference winning % coming into this season is 55%.
2019-2020 10-8
2020-2021 2-8
That's 12-16
?
Overall his conference winning % coming into this season is 55%.
I agree, and I've said it's good enough for us....
But the discussion of this thread is has Buzz "arrived" ? Arrived at what? Being a prominent program? No.
Met our standard of mediocrity? Sure, I guess.
But the discussion of this thread is has Buzz "arrived" ? Arrived at what? Being a prominent program? No.
Met our standard of mediocrity? Sure, I guess.
So what? Thats virtually identical to Rick Barnes' conference record in his first five years at Tennessee. Its way better than Bruce Pearl's first five at Auburn. Its a dumb stat, that if anything is pretty good and it was obviously twisted to sound like something it wasnt (ie that we've been having losing seasons)
I haven't read the entire thread. Has anyone thrown out the 1 tournament win in 6 seasons stat?
If after this season Buzz has us on a trajectory that Rick Barnes has Tennessee on (consistently a top program in the country), that would be great. But he hasn't yet... so back to original point of the thread... what has Buzz arrived at?
Buzz Williams "arrived" metaphorically, like, 15 years ago...and then almost 6 years ago he literally "arrived" here when we hired a legitimate established basketball coach for the first time...I dunno ever?
That's kind of my point- Buzz "arrived" nationally quite some time ago... he's been here for a while and our program under him has certainly not "arrived" in any meaningful way yet. I'd like to think this season will tell, but folks are already gearing up for a rebuild next season.... so idk that isn't sustained success compared to a Tennessee program like you mentioned..
jc1402 said:
That's kind of my point- Buzz "arrived" nationally quite some time ago... he's been here for a while and our program under him has certainly not "arrived" in any meaningful way yet. I'd like to think this season will tell, but folks are already gearing up for a rebuild next season.... so idk that isn't sustained success compared to a Tennessee program like you mentioned..
You have to make sure your expectations meet that of the athletic department he coaches under. We give buz limited resources of which I feel he overachieves.
2 out of Barnes' first 5 years at TN were good years. 1/5 of Buzz's were good years (in terms of conference record).
TN had a lot more talent to work with than Buzz did. It's apples and oranges.
Buzz has done better earlier in the year this year than he typically does, even though he had a more demanding schedule. His team is playing better than we usually do going into conference play. We gave waaay more options offensively than Hero-ball Wade.
Yes, the conference is the most difficult it's ever been. But, we only play the 5 teams who are ranked in the top 10 currently once, and 3 of these are at home. We get OU, t.u., LSU twice (I think OU is very overrated and t.u. plays sawft) - that's not too bad an SEC schedule for this particular year.
TN had a lot more talent to work with than Buzz did. It's apples and oranges.
Buzz has done better earlier in the year this year than he typically does, even though he had a more demanding schedule. His team is playing better than we usually do going into conference play. We gave waaay more options offensively than Hero-ball Wade.
Yes, the conference is the most difficult it's ever been. But, we only play the 5 teams who are ranked in the top 10 currently once, and 3 of these are at home. We get OU, t.u., LSU twice (I think OU is very overrated and t.u. plays sawft) - that's not too bad an SEC schedule for this particular year.
I mean the whole thread is kind of ridiculous. If we want to pick a specific date, the Buzz A&M basketball program probably "arrived" when we beat Tennessee in February of '22. Any time the student section is coordinating _______-outs (in that case black) and people are lining up hours before games you've arrived.
What Buzz has done that BK didn't do was establish a solid floor. We're onto four seasons in a row now of being at least a bubble team. That's no small feat here.
But what BK did that only BCG had ever done was put together a truly special season, and we'll see if this year is one of those.
What Buzz has done that BK didn't do was establish a solid floor. We're onto four seasons in a row now of being at least a bubble team. That's no small feat here.
But what BK did that only BCG had ever done was put together a truly special season, and we'll see if this year is one of those.
FTAG 2000 said:
Good lord. We beat a ****ty tu team BY 20, shooting 2-10 from 3 with best player having an off night, something we haven't done since 1993
FIFY
rlb28 said:
Add Gillespie's three years - 70-26 at 73% winning percentage.
Interesting to note that Gillespie's all-time winning percentage from UTEP, A&M, Kentucky, TxTech and Tarleton is a meager 56%.
He blew his wad at A&M. It makes you wonder what could have been for him and the program if he had simply stayed.
Im gonna guess they would be placing a statue of his right about now outside Reed arena
Is anyone going to address that .708 winning percentage?
Pretty good for having one foot out the door!Aggie Dad 26 said:
Is anyone going to address that .708 winning percentage?
FTAG 2000 said:zooguy96 said:
We've finally got multiple 6'5" to 6'8" defenders who can effectively run his defense (switch) - even on the bench. If your bench defense is Garcia, Hefner, Payne - that's pretty elite.
There is nothing elite about Hefner. He shouldn't be on this team let alone getting minutes.
Hefner leads the team this season in box plus minus. Try watching the games maybe.
That's definitely a sample size issue and/or some kind of calculation error, but there's no question he's been pretty good lately.
He was really good against Texas.
He was really good against Texas.
Lol. Making the 64-team tournament should not be the goal here. Lmao a reputable coach could win a title here, bc he could recruit good enough to do it.bobinator said:
If you get us to the tournament three straight seasons it doesn't matter how you did it or if you were the last team in the field all three years and it would take a monumental collapse for us to miss it this year.
Only two coaches have ever even gotten us into the tournament twice in a row, one of them was immediately hired by Kentucky, and the only coach that's ever gotten us to the tournament three (and four) times a in a row was hired by Maryland.
Whether we like it or not long-term, that's really the benchmark here at A&M.
Maybe that's mediocre nationally, but mediocre nationally over the course of several seasons makes you one of the best coaches in A&M history.
4 seasons of at least a bubble team is not the bar. LOLbobinator said:
I mean the whole thread is kind of ridiculous. If we want to pick a specific date, the Buzz A&M basketball program probably "arrived" when we beat Tennessee in February of '22. Any time the student section is coordinating _______-outs (in that case black) and people are lining up hours before games you've arrived.
What Buzz has done that BK didn't do was establish a solid floor. We're onto four seasons in a row now of being at least a bubble team. That's no small feat here.
But what BK did that only BCG had ever done was put together a truly special season, and we'll see if this year is one of those.
He better make a deep tourney run.
Ag1188 said:Lol. Making the 64-team tournament should not be the goal here. Lmao a reputable coach could win a title here, bc he could recruit good enough to do it.bobinator said:
If you get us to the tournament three straight seasons it doesn't matter how you did it or if you were the last team in the field all three years and it would take a monumental collapse for us to miss it this year.
Only two coaches have ever even gotten us into the tournament twice in a row, one of them was immediately hired by Kentucky, and the only coach that's ever gotten us to the tournament three (and four) times a in a row was hired by Maryland.
Whether we like it or not long-term, that's really the benchmark here at A&M.
Maybe that's mediocre nationally, but mediocre nationally over the course of several seasons makes you one of the best coaches in A&M history.
But, making the tournament at A&M is the goal, because A&M largely doesn't care about basketball. They care more about baseball. If they cared about basketball, Reed would be a basketball-only facility, rather than a multi-use facility, and we'd throw a lot more $ into basketball.
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