Im afraid that people outside our A&M circle don't generally view the historic peak of our success under Gillispie and Turgeon as the baseline expectation at all.

Do you judge Kansas football coaches, for example based on whether or not they can be Mark Mangino? No you and everybody else has much lower ones because thats not anywhere near what you think is typical for them.

JJxvi said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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texasaggies987 said:

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We need to recruit better. Buzz is a hell of a couch but we need more talent especially down low. Hopefully he can do that in the offseason and we will have a better roster for next year. We can still make the dance just need to go 10-8 in conference.

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There is zero evidence at this point that he is a hell of a coach. Paid like one yeah. But our on court product says he's more of a middling guy who dresses well and chirps hard about all the off court stuff to keep the Brazos valley blue hairs happy.

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There is "zero evidence" only if you're a casual A&M basketball only fan who watches a few games every year. There is no question he is a good coach for anybody who has followed the sport closely for 15+ years. I guarantee across the country there are probably more people who think he's "too good" to be coach at A&M than the opposite opinion. They dont keep voting him SEC coach of the year even while here because they think A&M deserves to be in final fours…

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I don't care what he did before he got here. We hired him to win and do better than sweet 16s that Kennedy was delivering. This guy can't even sniff the second weekend of the tourney so far.

If you ranked coaches by ncaa wins since buzz got here he wouldn't even rate top 75. It's ridiculous people continue to defend him. I feel like I'm talking to the same people who defended Jimbo because he won a title back at FSU.

Either win when it matters or go find someone else who can. We are going on half a decade of zero ncaa wins now. Unless you want to start hanging Marquette and Va Tech banners in Reed for buzz.

JJxvi said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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No one is doubting the guy has/had the skins on the wall -- that's why he was hired and paid a Top 10 national
But that doesn't change that his performance here as head coach has been underwhelming at best. People who think that aren't crazy, they are looking at actual performance at Texas A&M -- not performance at Marquette/VTech.

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this is what Im talking about. An A&M fan judges only on A&M results like you do here. However, all that other stuff is more data that is just as valid that an unbiased observer wouldn't simply dismiss. It is choosing to judge on the small sample and not based on the largest possible sample or the whole set of data and that is bad for decisions.

He also hasnt been that bad here, someone not an A&M could probably be forgiven for thinking he's actually overachieved at this program. Something we would never admit.

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You'd be right if this was year one or two. At this point in his stay here, the only relevant data comes from his time at A&M.

JJxvi said:

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Im afraid that people outside our A&M circle don't generally view the historic peak of our success under Gillispie and Turgeon as the baseline expectation at all.

Do you judge Kansas football coaches, for example based on whether or not they can be Mark Mangino? No you and everybody else has much lower ones because thats not anywhere near what you think is typical for them.

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So you are saying that because A&M Basketball prior to our last 3 coaches (meaning prior to 20 years ago) was bad, that we shouldn't expect success like other major conference schools around the nation have?

To the extent that in four seasons one at-large-berth-caliber team (which results in a Game 1 blowout) should possibly even be viewed as over-achieving?

We hired him because he's a good coach that actually wanted to come here. Kennedy was fired because he sucked. We had one great year out of eight under Kennedy. That is my reality. Making sweet sixteens is not a real accomplishment that anybody except small conference programs cares about.

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That is my reality. Making sweet sixteens is not a real accomplishment that anybody except small conference programs cares about.

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You tout a SEC Coach of the Year award but then say making Sweet 16's is not a real accomplishment?

That's your reality?

Everyone entitled to their opinion, but maybe best not to tell others they are just "casual fans".

I dont care at all about SEC coach of the year, either. That was brought up, follow me here since you obviously didnt before, as an example of how others viewed his performance.

JJxvi said:

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I dont care at all about SEC coach of the year, either. That was brought up, follow me here since you obviously didnt before, as an example of how others viewed his performance.

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It's tough to follow you because instead of answering any of the questions posed you just post something new.

Should we have kept Jimbo?

Do you think Buzz is performing better than his major conference peers?

What are we more interested in -- actual results, or what results other people think we should be achieving?

Finally -- since something like a Sweet 16 is not an accomplishment -- what would you consider accomplishments?

Buzz is not doing as well as I would hope based on his track record, but unfortunately it seems that only two extreme positions are allowed on anything anymore. If you aren't "fire his ass" then you must be "he's the most amazing coach ever"

Im not sure if I would have fired Jimbo when we did, but I disliked Fisher and his performance way more. He performed much worse than Buzz Williams has when compared to expectations.

A&M football is not in the same place that A&M basketball is and therefore you can't directly compare them. I was not pleased in the slightest with Buzz's first two years. But the last three have been good, so I dont see the problem maybe that all the rest of you do, because thats all I judge by, not by whether we win a game in the tournament, but like simply whether we had a good team or not the whole season.

Jimbo is a guy that was given a national championship trophy in his press conference and then was terrible in year five and not getting better. Its easy to see why it went south.

Football can also afford the luxury of believing we can go out and hire anybody we want. Basketball would not generally be able to hire even a Buzz Williams from Virginia Tech without Buzz Williams wanting it for non basketball reasons. We can get a Turgeon from a good mid-major if the team is expected to be amazing as our roster was then, but off of firing our coach? I think people over estimate what we can get. Its gonna be a small conference or low mid major dice throw.

I actually agree with most of those points.

I just don't feel like that those who start questioning whether this is the right guy for the job should be viewed as "casual fans".

I dont have a problem with like, discussing things with some like you or some of the others. If we just always agreed it wouldnt be fun to discuss. But lets be real about most posts. Its just whiners whining. Doing what they want would be a tantrum, like throwing the xbox controller, and you regret it if you find out its now broken afterwards.

Agree with this. Buzz hasn't led us to being perennial contenders but the program is better and never has been a non competitive joke even when the talent level was pretty low. The up and down is frustrating i I don't see who we could hire that would clearly be an upgrade. I really don't get people that groan about his pay. We hired him at market rate and if he went elsewhere he'd get paid the same imo.

Sometimes I wonder if many posters really understand nationally how often other major conference teams make the NCAA Tournament.

It's a lot more often than you think.

If over 5 years you've produced one at-large berth caliber team (and won 0 tourney games), then 85% of major conference school coaches are doing better than you.

To put in football terms that many seem to understand better, here's what we've done:

Year 1: 6-6
Year 2: 3-9
Year 3: 7-5
Year 4: 8-4
Year 5: Sitting at 7-5


Let that sink in when you say he's done a good job here.

halfastros81 said:

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Agree with this. Buzz hasn't led us to being perennial contenders but the program is better and never has been a non competitive joke even when the talent level was pretty low. The up and down is frustrating i I don't see who we could hire that would clearly be an upgrade. I really don't get people that groan about his pay. We hired him at market rate and if he went elsewhere he'd get paid the same imo.

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and they would expect him to perform better than he has

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If over 5 years you've produced one at-large berth caliber team (and won 0 tourney games), then 85% of major conference school coaches are doing better than you.

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The problem with this argument is that we have actually produced three at large berth quality teams in five years, not only one, and in addition those three years are the current one and the previous two, so 3 out of the last 3 (yeah, yeah, I know lots of yall are preemptively predicting our collapse for some reason).

This is another case of needing to make a black line distinction where you're either great or you suck ass with no possibility of in between. In this case, I guess leaving that distinction solely up to the committee I guess. But thats not how it works. In reslity, we had a good team three years ago.

Sure, I dont think anybody thinks we are where we want to be, but the metrics and results are not those of some terrible team with a bad coach who doesn't know what he's doing.

Also :::eyeroll::: at the attempt at a football equivalency. Even if you accept these ideas, the problem is, again, that texas A&M basketball is not Texas A&M football. Texas A&M football would fire its coach with those results sure, and Iowa State basketball would probably fire a coach who got our results the last five years there. However, Iowa State football is not immediately firing, say, Matt Campbell for example. The calculus on results and potential replacements are totally different between their football and basketball programs.

JJxvi said:

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If over 5 years you've produced one at-large berth caliber team (and won 0 tourney games), then 85% of major conference school coaches are doing better than you.

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The problem with this argument is that we have actually produced three at large berth quality teams in five years, not only one, and in addition those three years are the current one and the previous two, so 3 out of the last 3 (yeah, yeah, I know lots of yall are preemptively predicting our collapse for some reason).

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Sorry, if your evaluation and analysis of the current A&M coach includes:

1) Saying we will receive an at-large berth this year when it is still very much undecided.
2) Saying that we produced an at-large caliber team in 2022 when we did not receive an at-large bid.
3) Saying that "Making sweet sixteens is not a real accomplishment that anybody except small conference programs cares about."


Then I can't take any of your evals or analysis seriously. You're not only giving a coach credit for things that didn't actually happen, but simultaneously seem to have this pre-BCG era opinion of the basketball program that we should just be happy to have a team that competes and are lucky to have any coach.

We just view the program in two completely different ways. We didn't get lucky with the BCG, Mark Turgeon and Billy Kennedy hires. You don't have to be afraid to try something different due to a fear of going back to the Melvin Watkins days.

and so should we but imo moving on is not the best answer for the good of our program.

May I suggest a hike during our next games? I feel so much more at peace than I would if I had stayed home in front of the TV.

halfastros81 said:

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and so should we but imo moving on is not the best answer for the good of our program.

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It's year five. We know what Buzz can produce here. Fringe bubble team if everything goes right.

We can do better. Or just cut his salary by theee million and let's adjust our expectations accordingly.

I fear going back to the Billy Kennedy days, but I guess some of ya'll loved it.

He had more Sweet 16s than BCG. He was the GOAT.

frenchtoast said:

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He had more Sweet 16s than BCG. He was the GOAT.

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That was Rick Stansbury's recruits.


If we continue to play like the last week and miss the NCAAT, next year Buzz will be on the hot seat.

The Arkansas game is now a must game and he need to beat both Mississippi schools.

JJxvi said:

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If over 5 years you've produced one at-large berth caliber team (and won 0 tourney games), then 85% of major conference school coaches are doing better than you.

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The problem with this argument is that we have actually produced three at large berth quality teams in five years, not only one, and in addition those three years are the current one and the previous two, so 3 out of the last 3 (yeah, yeah, I know lots of yall are preemptively predicting our collapse for some reason).

This is another case of needing to make a black line distinction where you're either great or you suck ass with no possibility of in between. In this case, I guess leaving that distinction solely up to the committee I guess. But thats not how it works. In reslity, we had a good team three years ago.

Sure, I dont think anybody thinks we are where we want to be, but the metrics and results are not those of some terrible team with a bad coach who doesn't know what he's doing.

Also :::eyeroll::: at the attempt at a football equivalency. Even if you accept these ideas, the problem is, again, that texas A&M basketball is not Texas A&M football. Texas A&M football would fire its coach with those results sure, and Iowa State basketball would probably fire a coach who got our results the last five years there. However, Iowa State football is not immediately firing, say, Matt Campbell for example. The calculus on results and potential replacements are totally different between their football and basketball programs.

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So, when would you move on from Buzz?
What I hear from you is that A&M should know their place in basketball and be happy we have Buzz. We can't get a better coach.

Well, we'd have to actually have a bad team before I'd consider it.