Or in the very least stop reviewing the play.

Player A has the basketball securely in two hands. Player B slaps at ball knocking it out of Player A's hands and out of bounds.

I think this rule should be changed and the ball should be awarded to the team of Player A (just like we would do as kids playing a pick up game at a rec center).

If you don't change the rule, stop reviewing the play and award the ball to the team of Player B. The ball will always roll off the hand/finger tips of Player A, whether you can see that on replay or not. Player A will always be the last player to actually touch the ball.

It was so obvious during the replay of the A Garcia play that he had been hacked on the arm, but the tv guys never mentioned the foul. I assume you can't call a foul on replays?

Horse with No Name said:

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It was so obvious during the replay of the A Garcia play that he had been hacked on the arm, but the tv guys never mentioned the foul. I assume you can't call a foul on replays?

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Actually they did mention Garcia got hit in the wrist but they still agreed with the overturn.

Horse with No Name said:

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I assume you can't call a foul on replays?

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That is correct

This. I thought they'd give us the ball as a concession for missing the foul but obviously not

Agreed. I don't care if the ball rolled off the electrons on the tip of a dude's fingers. Ludicrous.

Yup, they basically painted themselves into a corner.

The rule somehow needs to be adjusted, because ultimately you've got referees not calling ticky-tack fouls late in the game that don't really impact the game... That was one of them... Was a minor foul, but was A&M's ball so no need to call it.

But then when pushed into the review, suddenly not calling the ticky-tack foul winds up forcing A&M to give up the ball... which had that been the outcome the foul likely would have been called.

The best recourse would be to give each coach 2-3 challenges per game and just deal with the calls on the floor. Refs shouldn't be reviewing anything other than deciding if a foul was flagrant or not.

A player should never have the power to initiate a ref review. That was outrageous tonight.

Kampfers said:

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Horse with No Name said:

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I assume you can't call a foul on replays?

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That is correct

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Except for when they did against Dexter Dennis last week in the Arky game.

Proposition Joe said:

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Yup, they basically painted themselves into a corner.

The rule somehow needs to be adjusted, because ultimately you've got referees not calling ticky-tack fouls late in the game that don't really impact the game... That was one of them... Was a minor foul, but was A&M's ball so no need to call it.

But then when pushed into the review, suddenly not calling the ticky-tack foul winds up forcing A&M to give up the ball... which had that been the outcome the foul likely would have been called.

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Refs are put in a tough spot with the rule book, not really sure how you can change the rules to solve these issues and not create a bunch more


My best solution would be to put a 15-20 second time limit to go through each angle once on the review. If you need more time or need multiple replays or 10x digital zoom, you don't have a clear enough case to overturn and the play stands as called.

Horse with No Name said:

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It was so obvious during the replay of the A Garcia play that he had been hacked on the arm, but the tv guys never mentioned the foul. I assume you can't call a foul on replays?

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They mentioned the foul a lot. Just nothing you can do in that moment.

I don't understand. You can reverse a foul to call it on the other team but if you don't call a foul you are stuck with no foul. That makes no sense.

Kampfers said:

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Horse with No Name said:

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I assume you can't call a foul on replays?

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That is correct

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Exhibit A for why replay in all sports is ******ed. If you can't correct all the bad or missed calls in a game, you don't need to correct any of them. It completely alters the fabric of the game to reviews calls half ass. Leave it alone and the calls will usually even out.

I think they should rework the out of bounds rule so that if it's close, it's out on whoever's action made it go out.

bobinator said:

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I think they should rework the out of bounds rule so that if it's close, it's out on whoever's action made it go out.

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Maybe that allows the ref to rule within the spirit of the law, but it also opens the door too much to the ref determining whose action made the ball go out, and thus causing as many or more issues than it solves. "Player A knocked the ball out, I know it grazed Player B's finger but that wasn't why the ball went out"... how does that get fairly adjudicated?

I appreciate the black and whiteness of the OOB rules, but I don't like the game being called differently live and during replay, so you can't let excessive replays create a different dynamic. If it's obvious after a 2nd look, call whatever you want. Otherwise move on.

I like this. If the person who has the ball knocked out of his hands makes some other move, touches it on a reach for it, or it goes off his body after leaving his hands that's one thing. But in the course of a player dislodging the ball and sending it on an out of bounds trajectory, the fact it grazes your finger last as it was being dislodged,shouldn't make it out on you.

I think you'd have far fewer reviews and they wouldn't take as long. You'd occasionally have plays where both guys were reaching for the ball but this swatting and it maybe grazing a guys fingertips thing takes way too long.

And again, the action rule would only come into effect if it was close.

If it's close, the answer isn't "use alternate criteria to determine ruling"

It's "call stands"

I just mean you wouldn't even have to go to the replay. If some dude swipes at the ball and it's out but maybe the offensive players fingertips were still on it, it's out on the defense and you don't even have to look at it.

It's not perfect but I think it would be an improvement over what we have now.

Either that or take two timeouts and give the coaches two challenges.

bobinator said:

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I think you'd have far fewer reviews and they wouldn't take as long. You'd occasionally have plays where both guys were reaching for the ball but this swatting and it maybe grazing a guys fingertips thing takes way too long.

And again, the action rule would only come into effect if it was close.

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I agree that less reviews overall is the primary solution the NCAA needs to be pursuing

bobinator said:

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I just mean you wouldn't even have to go to the replay. If some dude swipes at the ball and it's out but maybe the offensive players fingertips were still on it, it's out on the defense and you don't even have to look at it.

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Yeah I agree with this completely. They should not be overturning, or even reviewing some of these plays.

Do that, ban charges by help defenders, and make it so that the fouled team gets to pick the shooter when it's in the one-and-one and the sport would be 15% better.

If 3 referees are not gonna be expected to make calls in the flow of a game, without unlimited reviews, quit paying 3 guys $3500 a game. Hell, refs ought to speak up as well.

gkaggie08 said:

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The best recourse would be to give each coach 2-3 challenges per game and just deal with the calls on the floor. Refs shouldn't be reviewing anything other than deciding if a foul was flagrant or not.

A player should never have the power to initiate a ref review. That was outrageous tonight.

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100% agree and let's do this for college football too. Way too many interruptions in play in both sports. If they are going to continue with this nonsense at least limit it to the last 2 minutes of the game. It's gotten ridiculous.

The lead ref that looks like Eric Bienemy was absolutely clueless most of the night. He was under the basket most of the night and has numerous non calls that were obvious heavy contact fouls. Boots got mauled on those 2 that he thankfully finished at the rim. Both were easy and 1 calls. While Marble technically got 9 fouls committed against him the actual # was closer to 15-20. He got hammered almost every time he secured a defensive rebound.

So how does the power of texags help get some momentum on this? It truly is such a terrible abuse of replay. Look no further for an example of the stakes involved than the 2019 title game. Tech down 2 in OT with 1:06 left has a breakaway and Virginia player knocks it out of bounds to stop break. But of course slomo replay shows it off Tech player pinky. Virginia ball. Would tech have won? Who knows but this shouldn't be happening.
Start at 1:30:50

I'd forgotten this crucial call in a title game!

I think vast majority of people would agree whose ball it should be. Before replay, the "right" call was always made.

Really surprised this hasn't been fixed given how stupid the result is and how arbitrary its application. One game it is reviewed and the camera angle doesn't quite pick up ball rolling off fingertip and another game it does.