They're dumb camps.

I'm in the third camp: "BK was okay, he got dealt a bad hand when he started because the roster had no depth, injuries and obviously the Parkinsons' diagnosis. That said, it took him too long to build it back up, we never should have given him that insane contract in 2016, pulling off an upset of North Carolina doesn't excuse the insane discipline problems we had in 2018, and the fall off was way too bad in 2019 so it was definitely time to move on."

True.

bobinator said:

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So we're not gonna count Buzz's COVID year, which affected every school, but we are going to count BK's first year when he got a Parkinsons diagnosis right before the season, which only affected us. And then Khris Middleton was hurt (only played 20 games and clearly wasn't himself), and Kourtney Roberson only played 9 games.

Then we're going to give Buzz partial credit for almost making the NCAA Tournament last year, but not give BK the same credit in 2015. Last year we were the third team left out, and in 2015 we were a 2 seed in the NIT which means we were one of the 5-8 teams left out. When you're picturing an entire season, that's not much difference. We can cry foul on the selection committee, but you either make it or you don't.

Buzz is a better coach than Kennedy, and it's not even close, but we don't have to juke the stats to help him.

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So was there a situation where the vast majority of brackets had the Ags in the field in 2015 and the committee was in the minority?

And how did that 2015 team do in the NIT? Are you saying just making the NIT versus coming one made basket away from winning the whole thing in the finals "not much better"?

With regard to comparing a Parkinsons diagnosis to COVID - those are completely different situations as one impacts the person while the other impacts the team.

Parkinsons disease is a dysfunction of the brain and thus is directly related to the quality of decision making and coaching.

This made BK a below average coach - though he might have been a decent recruiter during a few years when combined with Stansbury and perhaps "pre-NIL resources".

COVID impacted different teams differently based on the status of the pandemic in any particular locale and luck of the draw as far as individuals on our team or opponents being unable to practice or play - wiping out the month of February as far as Aggie basketball was cocerned I believe.

COVID did not temporarily make Buzz a below average coach.

See... I didn't use the word "bad" when describing BK's coaching.

bobinator said:

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Just a thought, but maybe he sits somewhere between "good" and "bad."

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Do you even internet bro?

Method Man said:

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He didn't make the tourney until his fifth season. It was a great season though but he was awful his first four seasons and even his best team needed a miracle to make the sweet 16 and got obliterated by OU. Then with a stud team we needed a late rally to make the tourney. The UNC win was huge. Huge! Then we lost by a million points to Michigan.

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That Michigan game popped up on my twitter timeline the other day. No one in America was beating them that day. They couldn't miss, even when we played good defense. They had a 7 footer hitting contested 3 pointers consistently.

bobinator said:

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And then Buzz called BK a "top five human being ever employed as a head coach in any sport." Said he left books and notes in his desk drawer for the next coach to read.

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I talked to BK and he said when he arrived at A&M there were 3 envelopes in the drawer, labeled, "Read after 1st bad season," "Read after 2nd bad season," and "Read after 3rd bad season."

After the 1st bad season, he opened the 1st. It read, "Blame the previous staff."
After the 2nd bad season, he opened the 2nd. It read, "Blame the process."
After the 3rd bad season, he opened the 3rd. It read, "Prepare 3 letters."

Disclaimer: This isn't true, but based on a joke about being CEO.

I'm not comparing at all how they did in the NIT, just that the regular seasons were similar. The 2022 team was obviously closer to the field, but not by a ton. Just one or two games. So when you look at the regular season judging the coach, the results were similar. That's all I'm saying.

And obviously anything that affects the head coach affects the whole team, especially in the preseason of his first season, surely you can see that.

You're as much all-in on Buzz being a builder and leader of men and all of the intangibles as anyone, if he had some kind of terrible diagnosis before the season that made him have to rethink how he was living his life, don't you think it would impact the entire team?

BCG Disciple said:

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At the end of the day it breakdown to two camps:

BK was not a good coach: he only made the tournament in 2 of 8 seasons.

BK was a good coach: he made 2 of 3 sweet 16s, the most sweet 16s in our school history (in less than 1/3 of the time as the other guy with 2).

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Right or wrong, I view BK as one great recruiting class that was responsible for almost all his success here. And I give a lot of credit for that class to Avery Johnson.

BK got dealt an incredibly tough hand with the timing of the hire, the roster, and then his diagnosis. I wish it had gone better, but it didn't. I wish him nothing but the best.

Quote:

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Right or wrong, I view BK as one great recruiting class that was responsible for almost all his success here. And I give a lot of credit for that class to Avery Johnson.

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I mean it's definitely wrong. You're going to give a bunch of freshmen "almost all" the credit for the 2016 season and not House, Caruso, J. Jones and Anthony Collins?

The freshman combined for 37 starts, 34 of which were Tyler Davis. They were important role players that season, but the stars were the seniors.

Complete Idiot said:

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Rather than use the words "was a poor coach", which isn't fair given the diagnosis and how it may have impacted him professionally and personally, how about we say "the team did not have the results we expect". Who knows what would have happened if the head coach didn't have a devastating diagnosis.

The Ags had 6 straight NCAA tournament appearances, 5 straight years of 24+ wins, and 7 straight years of .500 or above in conference play, when Turgeon left. That last Turgeon team was 24-9, and 11-5 in the Big 12, and many players returned for BK's first year - Ray Turner, Kourtney Robinson, Middleton, Elston Turner, Naji Hibbert, Dash Harris, David Loubeau. That first BK team went 14-18, 4-14 in the Big 12.

In 8 years under BK the Ags only made the tourney twice, 6 of the 8 years had conference records of .500 or below, only won more than 22 games once.

The 2015-2016 team was very, very strong - 4 players that were taken in the NBA draft. I'm always curious about the Rick Stansbury impact, the only two years a BK team finished over .500 in conference was when Stansbury was there, but that was also by far our best roster.

All 3 (real) years under Buzz we have gone .500 or better in conference. We were one 2022 win away from being able to say we made the tourney in 2 of 3 (real) years under Buzz.

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Robert Williams in 2018 is our only drafted player since Middleton in 2012. House, Caruso and Jalen Jones all played, but none were drafted.

MarcAg said:

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Kennedy was not telling him these things when he was considering transferring to A&M. The story has been presented multiple times on this board like Dexter was considering A&M and Billy encouraged him or told him it would be a good place for him to go. People have created that story and Dennis has never said that. Dennis said previously that once he made the decision to go to A&M, Billy Kennedy reached out to him and wished him best of luck and told him A&M is a great pace and it was a good choice. He also said that when he played at Wichita, Kennedy would talk about his time at A&M in conversations they had.

Billy is a great dude. But the story that he helped steer him to A&M is not accurate.

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The way you said it is the way I read it.

bobinator said:

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Quote:

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Right or wrong, I view BK as one great recruiting class that was responsible for almost all his success here. And I give a lot of credit for that class to Avery Johnson.

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I mean it's definitely wrong. You're going to give a bunch of freshmen "almost all" the credit for the 2016 season and not House, Caruso, J. Jones and Anthony Collins?

The freshman combined for 37 starts, 34 of which were Tyler Davis. They were important role players that season, but the stars were the seniors.

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Yes and no and yes.

Yes, I am not giving BK much credit for that season.

No, I'm not giving the freshman class more credit than the starters.

Yes, I give most of the credit for that season to the players.

I don't count covid year as an excuse nor do I give as much credit as others for narrowly missing the tourney. Buzz didn't need to lose all of those eight games we lost and BK didn't have to lose to Bama with two starters out and a lame duck coach.

So you just refuse to give BK credit for anything. That's fine I guess, but it's different than giving one class of players credit for everything good that happened while he was here.

bobinator said:

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So you just refuse to give BK credit for anything. That's fine I guess, but it's different than giving one class of players credit for everything good that happened while he was here.

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For anything?

I give BK credit for being a great person. That's more important than coaching. I mean, I guess I should reply in bobinator style: "so you think coaching is better than being a good human being".

As for coaching, he had good success before he came here. But not enough success here to keep his job.

mfers really still arguing about BK?

go read a book or something *******

No one coached by BK was winning that day.

DallasAg 94 said:

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bobinator said:

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And then Buzz called BK a "top five human being ever employed as a head coach in any sport." Said he left books and notes in his desk drawer for the next coach to read.

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I talked to BK and he said when he arrived at A&M there were 3 envelopes in the drawer, labeled, "Read after 1st bad season," "Read after 2nd bad season," and "Read after 3rd bad season."

After the 1st bad season, he opened the 1st. It read, "Blame the previous staff."
After the 2nd bad season, he opened the 2nd. It read, "Blame the process."
After the 3rd bad season, he opened the 3rd. It read, "Prepare 3 letters."

Disclaimer: This isn't true, but based on a joke about being CEO.

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You joke - but BK had a running narrative he would use after each sh*tty, poorly coached season 1-4 to deflect blame. At this point, I can't remember all.. One was related to some sort of ncaa points bs thing hampering recruiting... another was the middleton being out first year... another deflector (after year 4) was promise ncaas the next year, etc...

APR was one.

I appreciate Bob's effort here

The board was getting a little too excited and unified in its support of the Aggies so on the day of a huge game he skillfully uses comments from the recent press conference and crafts a thread to start a classic Billy Kennedy debate.

Gotta make sure the board remembers it's roots and remains humble (pronounced "um-bull" like Buzz does and the town).

Method Man said:

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No one coached by BK was winning that day.

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No one coached by Coach K was winning that day either

Appropriate comparison. Basically the same guy.

wacarnolds said:

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mfers really still arguing about BK?

go read a book or something *******

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Irony is seems we feel the same about BK

We've got one of the biggest home games in recent Aggie bball history and we're still arguing about Billy Kennedy? Who we fired…. 3 years ago!

https://247sports.com/college/texas-am/Article/Former-Texas-AM-Aggies-basketball-coach-Billy-Kennedy-reflected-on-his-time-in-College-Station-Texas-Buzz-Williams-205292910/

I was high on BK when we hired him. wish it would have worked out.

Lt. Joe Bookman said:

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We've got one of the biggest home games in recent Aggie bball history and we're still arguing about Billy Kennedy? Who we fired…. 3 years ago!

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We aren't playing in the game and the topic came up. People talk about past coaches in every sport at every school all the time. Also we talk ad nauseum about all games .

BK's win against UNC in the round of 32 was a top 5 borderline erotic win in A&M sports history

The man is a legend