Well, today about did it for me.
I'm officially ready to jump off the Buzz train.

He's had his time. For whatever reason, it's not working

For all of BK's flaws, he had us performing much better than Buzz to date, and even though BK always had that same unchanging, Turgeon was just a Much better fit for the culture. Buying pizzas for the reed towdies, you kidding? Running on campus outside when he could be inside, but he prefers to be be one with the community

It's time to move on. Not working

There are a lot of holes in this post.

So many it just gave up a wide open three.

yea but have you been reading your daily books bro? its not all about winnin' bro, you gotta inspire the kids, bro. please. you gotta.

Sumlin's winning percentage is higher.

Not sure about everything you wrote, but I think I'm in the verge of fully losing hope that buzz will get it done
I was very happy we brought him on, and was sure he would have us tourney regulars by year 3.
The teams just look lost so often

It used to be universally understood here that it shouldn't take 5 years to get to the tournament. Hopefully, we'll get there this year.

The tournament is obviously still mathematically possible regardless, but if we don't beat Memphis - and it's gonna be hard to beat them on the road - then at best we'll finish non-con with 2 bad losses and zero quality wins. And Oregon State could surprise us with the way we're playing. Puts us far, far behind on resume building.

Next two games aren't "the season," but barring a 12-6 or 13-5 SEC season, they kind of are.

Buzz gets us way behind the eight ball every year leaving us to scratch and claw our way out of the mess. A high caliber coach will find a way to build up tourney resume equity early on a regular basis. Until Buzz finds a way to make that happen, he'll just be another over-hyped and over-paid A&M coach.

I love the dude...I really do...but the results are not there based on expectations and what we're paying him. We can say "but we're close!!!"...but when you have 8-game losing streaks and virtually zero impressive non-conference wins, you're not "close".

Kennedy didn't make the tournament until year five. Buzz is ahead of schedule in that regard but this rate I'm skeptical he makes the tourney this season.

Turgeon wasn't a cultural fit at A&M. He was a Chardonnay at a school of Shiner Bocks.

Aggie87 said:

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Turgeon wasn't a cultural fit at A&M. He was a Chardonnay at a school of Shiner Bocks.

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Turgeon wasn't great at a basketball school either. He was great for us, but meh to a program that expects to make Elite 8's and beyond.

GrayMatter said:

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Aggie87 said:

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Turgeon wasn't a cultural fit at A&M. He was a Chardonnay at a school of Shiner Bocks.

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Turgeon wasn't great at a basketball school either. He was great for us, but meh to a program that expects to make Elite 8's and beyond.

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Similar to BCG. Great turnaround guy. Not so much at taking a good program to the promised land.

One of the toughest spots is being a no history basketball school in a football dominated power 5 conference. No matter how the landscape of recruiting changes it remains a challenge.

Trying do it in the south where basketball isn't king makes it even tougher.

That's no excuse, just reality. I want Buzz to succeed so badly but if he can't make the tourney this year we need to move on. However, as I say that I'm not sure why I do... Why move on if the administration won't hire someone who can really turn it around? And then I ask turn what around? So who would actually come here?

Vicious circle is vicious.

Yeah the problem is to move on means you're going back to the up-and-comer crapshoot that is going to leave you if he succeeds ala bcg and turgeon.

Buzz really was a great fit here in a lot of ways which makes the gross underachieving even more frustrating.

Bunk Moreland said:

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One of the toughest spots is being a no history basketball school in a football dominated power 5 conference. No matter how the landscape of recruiting changes it remains a challenge.

Trying do it in the south where basketball isn't king makes it even tougher.

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Eh, this is teetering on the GoM brink.

Texas, Baylor, Tech, LSU, Arkansas (though getting old), Houston, Auburn, Florida, Georgia Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, South Carolina have all made a modern Final Four. Baylor, Arkansas, and Florida won the stupid thing

Alabama, Florida State, Kansas State, Miami, Tennessee, and Mizzou have all made the E8 in the past 20-ish years.

It's not unfathomable. A&M has made some bad decisions about retaining coaches. It's ok to whiff once in a while, as long as you don't double down and keep a losing coach past when it's obvious (Melvin, Barone, Kennedy, Fran, Gillom, etc).

Buzz was the home run hire of all time A&M basketball home run hires. But, this is year 4 and it's another mostly-bad basketball team that is out of contention for an at large bid on December 5

Bunk Moreland said:

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One of the toughest spots is being a no history basketball school in a football dominated power 5 conference. No matter how the landscape of recruiting changes it remains a challenge.

Trying do it in the south where basketball isn't king makes it even tougher.

That's no excuse, just reality. I want Buzz to succeed so badly but if he can't make the tourney this year we need to move on. However, as I say that I'm not sure why I do... Why move on if the administration won't hire someone who can really turn it around? And then I ask turn what around? So who would actually come here?

Vicious circle is vicious.

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Florida won it all in 2006 and 2007, and was runner-up in 2000.

Tech was runner-up recently, and Baylor won a championship.
(Edit I should have finished the thread - already posted.)

However your point is good.
Here is the SEC's Final Four history:

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/final-four-history-every-sec-basketball-team/

7 teams have never been to the Final Four, and 3 only once. I'm surprised Kentucky is only at 17, and none since 2015 (but with 8 championships out of those 17 trips).

I'm not saying it can't be done. Obviously it can, but it's difficult to do and much harder to sustain.

I'd rather be better later, but being better sooner and even better later would be nice.

The team has lost three games and you all act like the season is over.

"The car is on fire but you all act like the road trip is over"

Double Diamond said:

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The team has lost three games and you all act like the season is over.

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The season is over.

Even if we make a miraculous sec run, the narrative of early season collapse will be there.

I'm as big a believer as any but I don't see this team dancing

Fire him

Definitely over we don't have a Q to carry us, we have a bunch of brick layers. I'm glad we got Garcia instead of a shooter and took another kid that Arkansas doesn't need or want who sucks just as much as the one last year.

Sick of the performances ranging from mediocrity to sucking. With our resources there is no excuse not to be very good in EVERY sport.

Maroon Flash said:

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Sick of the performances ranging from mediocrity to sucking. With our resources there is no excuse not to be very good in EVERY sport.

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This guy gets it.

phatty26 said:

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Definitely over we don't have a Q to carry us, we have a bunch of brick layers. I'm glad we got Garcia instead of a shooter and took another kid that Arkansas doesn't need or want who sucks just as much as the one last year.

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Q wasn't really carrying anything at this time last year. He emerged as a leader later in the season. We could still have that. At this time last year he was merely a solid player and we have several of those to work with.

Ghost of Bisbee said:

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Double Diamond said:

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The team has lost three games and you all act like the season is over.

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The season is over.

Even if we make a miraculous sec run, the narrative of early season collapse will be there.

I'm as big a believer as any but I don't see this team dancing

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The season is definitely not over, and no, you're not as 'big a believer as any' if you truly believe we have no chance to get there.

phatty26 said:

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Fire him

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Do you donate anything whatsoever to the program?

Do you even have season tickets?

How big is the check you have already sent to Bjork for the expenses of the buyout or hiring a new coach?

If your answers are all 'no' to these questions, then your 'fire him' post makes you sound like a spoiled child.

Aggie87 said:

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Turgeon wasn't a cultural fit at A&M. He was a Chardonnay at a school of Shiner Bocks.

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Turgeon is chardonnay? Dude, Turgeon is from freaking Kansas. You spent much time in Kansas?
He's closer to Dorothy and the freaking Scarecrow than chardonnay. Turgeon left here of his own accord, but he made the NCAA Tournament every year. Now, he was no question in a downturn trajectory, but had he had the right character to see the potential we have and chose to stay, I think he could have seen success. He would have had to change his approach on recruiting and developing better relationships with HS coaches, but I think he had the skills to get it done.

Buzz Hasn't been dominant at any of his previous stops. He improved every year. He was only one game over. 500 in conference play in years 2-4 at VT.

If you take away the Covid19 season of 2020-2021 here, he's about the same as Billy Gillespie and Turgeon. That includes his 1st year taking over a team that finished 6-12 14- 18 and putting up a winning record in his 1st year. I know you can't just take it away but you have to at least understand what an effect a season like that can have on our program.

Buzz is a guy who builds a program his way. None of us liked the 8 game L streak last year, but I saw a ton of Aggies take back all the negative stuff they said about him at the end of last year. The team was clicking on all cylinders later in the season.

You don't have to show any patience whatsoever. You can be a pot banger and talk about how bad we suck or how bad he sucks but it won't change a damn thing.

Buzz has improved every program he's coached year over year. We are clearly not yet where we want to be, but I don't think it's because Buzz forgot how to coach. If he doesn't get it done here, it'll be the first and only place he didn't. It's still early in the year. I choose to show some patience and lean on the fact that he knows what he's doing. It's really dumb and immature to start calling for him to be canned, IMHO. Let's watch and see.

rwtxag83 said:

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Buzz has improved every program he's coached year over year. We are clearly not yet where we want to be, but I don't think it's because Buzz forgot how to coach. If he doesn't get it done here, it'll be the first and only place he didn't. It's still early in the year. I choose to show some patience and lean on the fact that he knows what he's doing. It's really dumb and immature to start calling for him to be canned, IMHO. Let's watch and see.

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Of the 3 schools he's been at multiple years, only one (Virginia Tech) could you clearly state he improved the program year over year.

At Marquette his last year was by far his worst.

So far this is his worst start at Texas A&M, and that's not even mentioning the convenient "oh that COVID year doesn't count" exclusion.

You may believe he gets it done here, but acting like there's overwhelming data that his programs get better year-after-year is simply made up.

We are playing a marginally tougher OOC than we did last year and that is good. However, we have 3 bad losses vs unranked teams that we were favored to beat. That's not good and doesn't give any hope that we will be even .500 in conf play.

We've lost zero conference games this season.

Therefore, there is still hope we go above .500 in conference play.

I can still see us getting to or even above 0.500 in conference play. I think we have the roster to go 9-9 or even 10-8 even with the results we've seen so far.

Problem is we need to get to 11-7 (and likely 12-6 unless we win next Saturday).