Buzz is now 16-20 in conference play in year 3, and recruiting dead last in the conference.

Bruce Pearl was 16-38 in conference after three years. Looks like Buzz needs to lose some more…

Not to mention the sec was not near the level that it is now with depth and quality.

I was really pumped when we hired buzz and am not ready to give up on him yet. But the recruiting is the scary part. I don't see a path to getting better if the recruiting doesn't pick up. And I don't have much hope that it will.

He just needs to get his guys. There are some that are so invested in Buzz being great that they will be posting soon about his past glory. They need to at least recognize that we are not where we should be. COVID or no COVID.

Speaking of COVID, did Buzz have COVID? Cognitive issues post COVID is a real thing. Maybe he forgot how to coach.

Why can't we crank up the NIL machine for basketball like we did with football? Recruiting doesn't have to suck.

mavsfan4ever said:

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I was really pumped when we hired buzz and am not ready to give up on him yet. But the recruiting is the scary part. I don't see a path to getting better if the recruiting doesn't pick up. And I don't have much hope that it will.

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This

The lack of recruiting is alarming

I understand buzz needs his "system". Guys and all, but it's really damn hard to consistently beat teams significantly more talented than you are with a "system"

Who are you going to replace him with? Start naming names.

college basketball doesnt take 3+ years to see improvement

Double Diamond said:

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Who are you going to replace him with? Start naming names.

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First, I don't think he's going anywhere until after next season at the earliest. But I wouldn't waste money going after another 'name'. I'd prefer to pay an up & coming assistant at a big school (or HC at a smaller school)... with the idea that they come from a Texas school with good recruiting ties to the state. I think we're seeing what happens when you hire someone who can't recruit the state.

Bad point.

Method Man said:

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Bad point.

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It's the only point. This has to work. And is still way to early to press the eject button on a coach like Buzz.

We talked about Buzz for years before he was hired. You might even say the fans got what they asked for…

My understanding is that Buzz's system is at a severe disadvantage in the current game because the transfer portal and NIL emphasize loading up on guys who will give you 1/2 years max with constant need for turnover and not the stable teams of heavy upperclassmen he prefers

Some of y'all are trying really hard to make all of us miserable.

Texas A&M said:

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Double Diamond said:

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Who are you going to replace him with? Start naming names.

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First, I don't think he's going anywhere until after next season at the earliest. But I wouldn't waste money going after another 'name'. I'd prefer to pay an up & coming assistant at a big school (or HC at a smaller school)... with the idea that they come from a Texas school with good recruiting ties to the state. I think we're seeing what happens when you hire someone who can't recruit the state.

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I agree he isn't going anywhere but I would have Grant McCasland on any list. Played at Baylor under Drew and the guy can flat out coach. What he's done at UNT is nothing short of amazing. This guy is in line to get a big time job.

Maroon Dawn said:

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My understanding is that Buzz's system is at a severe disadvantage in the current game because the transfer portal and NIL emphasize loading up on guys who will give you 1/2 years max with constant need for turnover and not the stable teams of heavy upperclassmen he prefers

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I actually think the transfer portal helps Buzz a lot. I haven't seen him recruit very many high quality HS players. Most of the guys he has had on his teams that have done extremely well and stayed around are transfers. If we can get guys who fit his system that he has seen can play at the D1 level after their Fr. year, I think he'd be okay. Those guys would have already used their 1 free transfer and would be more likely to stick it out until their time is up. As for NIL, I doubt he cares for that at all but hopefully, the athletic department will handle the NIL part of it for him...

phatty26 said:

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That fraud BK was 19-35 his first three years. That includes b12 and sec. I'm not a buzz defender but we kept that bum around for 8 seasons. Buzz had Covid to deal with I'm sur if Kennedy had that he'd still be here screwing the school out of a check.

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BK took our basketball program as far as they've ever been in the tournament, and he did it twice. Oh, and he won a conference title, something that even Bill G and Turgeon couldn't do.

Buzz is making like $4 million a year for...... this.

NyAggie said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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I was really pumped when we hired buzz and am not ready to give up on him yet. But the recruiting is the scary part. I don't see a path to getting better if the recruiting doesn't pick up. And I don't have much hope that it will.

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This

The lack of recruiting is alarming

I understand buzz needs his "system". Guys and all, but it's really damn hard to consistently beat teams significantly more talented than you are with a "system"

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Yep. BK at least got guys like Tyler Davis to come here and on talent alone they took us far.

^That recruiting class we got out the (pre NIL) checkbook. Program was totally in the tank and then we pull an amazing class out of our rear.

It was a genius move recruiting Avery Johnson's son- I'll give BK that. He was friends with all the good Dallas players. Kinda like Bobby Taylor was huge for this class for football... Except Avery had no business being recruited otherwise...

Aggies2009 said:

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phatty26 said:

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That fraud BK was 19-35 his first three years. That includes b12 and sec. I'm not a buzz defender but we kept that bum around for 8 seasons. Buzz had Covid to deal with I'm sur if Kennedy had that he'd still be here screwing the school out of a check.

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BK took our basketball program as far as they've ever been in the tournament, and he did it twice. Oh, and he won a conference title, something that even Bill G and Turgeon couldn't do.

Buzz is making like $4 million a year for...... this.

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And BK killed all the momentum Turge and BG built... and then rebuilt through incredible recruiting/still mediocre coaching (completely embarrassed when lost in the tournament each time)..

Back to now- The bottom line is Buzz has not recruited good enough. Since he's been here he hasn't signed one mega/prized recruit. Historically, our coaches are able to nail one at least every few years. Also, coaching strategy has been questionable- to me he has strayed too far from fundamentals on defense to try to give us an edge doing stuff other teams don't do... While the offense lacks movement and good enough playmakers. He's got to pick it up.

I'm pretty shocked that Buzz is going to end up less successful than Billy Kennedy at Texas A&M. I thought he was going to be a great fit.

Still time but it's not looking good.

Aston04 said:

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Aggies2009 said:

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phatty26 said:

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That fraud BK was 19-35 his first three years. That includes b12 and sec. I'm not a buzz defender but we kept that bum around for 8 seasons. Buzz had Covid to deal with I'm sur if Kennedy had that he'd still be here screwing the school out of a check.

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BK took our basketball program as far as they've ever been in the tournament, and he did it twice. Oh, and he won a conference title, something that even Bill G and Turgeon couldn't do.

Buzz is making like $4 million a year for...... this.

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And BK killed all the momentum Turge and BG built... and then rebuilt through incredible recruiting/still mediocre coaching (completely embarrassed when lost in the tournament each time)..

Back to now- The bottom line is Buzz has not recruited good enough. Since he's been here he hasn't signed one mega/prized recruit. Historically, our coaches are able to nail one at least every few years. Also, coaching strategy has been questionable- to me he has strayed too far from fundamentals on defense to try to give us an edge doing stuff other teams don't do... While the offense lacks movement and good enough playmakers. He's got to pick it up.

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Turge and BCG combined for 1 Sweet Sixteen and 0 conference titles.

BK had 2 and 1. Being "embarrassed" in the Sweet Sixteen is better than going 1 and done in my book.

To me, Buzz has a good system but hasn't had players to execute that system. Basically the opposite of the later BK years (poor Xs and Os with good players making up for it). Sadly his system hasn't made up for the lack of talent. I'm not saying Buzz should be fired, and I'm hoping he can land 1-2 big recruits soon. Iif he does that, we'll be just fine.

This team has been maddening given their consistent penchant for getting big leads and then seeing then evaporate.

I know we got some talented transfers coming over this last offseason in guys like Radford and Coleman, but I'm concerned that pipeline isn't one we can duplicate and the lack of recruiting so far is frightening. We need better big man play.

Aggies2009 said:

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phatty26 said:

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That fraud BK was 19-35 his first three years. That includes b12 and sec. I'm not a buzz defender but we kept that bum around for 8 seasons. Buzz had Covid to deal with I'm sur if Kennedy had that he'd still be here screwing the school out of a check.

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BK took our basketball program as far as they've ever been in the tournament, and he did it twice. Oh, and he won a conference title, something that even Bill G and Turgeon couldn't do.

Buzz is making like $4 million a year for...... this.

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Buzz's teams are ahead of any schedule BK was on.

Recruiting looks pretty weak. If we get the three that are currently committed, it doesn't appear any of the three will upgrade the talent level to any degree. In fact, they look like the kind of talent one would see being recruited to Tarleton State.

Need a top PG in the absolute worst way. Will have to come through the portal, I would guess. While we have several weaknesses on the roster, PG stands out as the #1 need.

Aggies2009 said:

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Aston04 said:

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Aggies2009 said:

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phatty26 said:

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That fraud BK was 19-35 his first three years. That includes b12 and sec. I'm not a buzz defender but we kept that bum around for 8 seasons. Buzz had Covid to deal with I'm sur if Kennedy had that he'd still be here screwing the school out of a check.

---

BK took our basketball program as far as they've ever been in the tournament, and he did it twice. Oh, and he won a conference title, something that even Bill G and Turgeon couldn't do.

Buzz is making like $4 million a year for...... this.

---

And BK killed all the momentum Turge and BG built... and then rebuilt through incredible recruiting/still mediocre coaching (completely embarrassed when lost in the tournament each time)..

Back to now- The bottom line is Buzz has not recruited good enough. Since he's been here he hasn't signed one mega/prized recruit. Historically, our coaches are able to nail one at least every few years. Also, coaching strategy has been questionable- to me he has strayed too far from fundamentals on defense to try to give us an edge doing stuff other teams don't do... While the offense lacks movement and good enough playmakers. He's got to pick it up.

---

Turge and BCG combined for 1 Sweet Sixteen and 0 conference titles.

BK had 2 and 1. Being "embarrassed" in the Sweet Sixteen is better than going 1 and done in my book.

To me, Buzz has a good system but hasn't had players to execute that system. Basically the opposite of the later BK years (poor Xs and Os with good players making up for it). Sadly his system hasn't made up for the lack of talent. I'm not saying Buzz should be fired, and I'm hoping he can land 1-2 big recruits soon. Iif he does that, we'll be just fine.

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we went to the tourney every year following the miracle nit run in year 1 of bcg. Turge and bcg routinely got their heart broken IN the tourney year after year-but they put us in position to do really well.. Just repeatedly had bad luck at end of the game to teams that went far (I think all but one year.. One year Turge did lose a crap game to fsu, I think) . Bk coached horribly in 6 of 8 seasons - underperformed in all. Gtfo selling bk. Nobody wanted bk post a&m.. It wasn't just about the illness. Even tiny d1 schools said thanks but no thanks to bk. but keep selling your crap coach.

It's not the only point. I'm not for getting rid of him right now at all but who are you going to replace him with is a dumb question. You don't keep a coach that is not going to get it done because you don't know who you're going to hire. You get rid of the coach at the right time and do a coaching search. There are no guarantees ever in coaching hires but you don't hold onto a mediocre or bad coach just becuase there isn't an obvious replacement.

The point is any "up and coming" coach is going to be a crapshoot, and there aren't many you'd be more confident in succeeding the next 3 years more than Buzz Williams the next 3 years.

I'm highly critcal of the job Buzz has done here, but if you ask me if I'd rather have 3 more years of Buzz or 3 years of "[insert assistant coach or small school coach here]", I'd take Buzz.

Now, it's when you have coaches that have zero skins on the wall that you've given a shot to that you should be quick to the hook after 3 years if there's no tournament. Those guys it's about seeing if you found a good one and if not taking another roll (reference: Tech missing a few times before Beard).

If we end out letting Buzz go in a couple of years b/c we still aren't where we should be, I think it's time to no longer look to pay a coach a top 10 salary when we likely aren't able to be consistently top 10. Better off hiring an up and comer and give them a few years and move on if necessary. Us paying coaches top salaries and then not having them really win much just doesn't make sense.

And it is really odd to see so many people wanting to give Buzz 6 years when they have said over and over before his hiring that it doesn't take 6 years to build a program. Like they give Buzz a do over due to COVID when it was clear that it wasn't COVID that was the problem. If it were COVID he wouldn't have had to start over with all new players.

I'm hoping it's one of those, "Buzz sees something the others don't..." type of scenarios, but it's thoroughly underwhelming nonetheless. Maybe he's just planning to marry himself to the transfer portal, and one could make the argument that's the way of the future - intake frosh who are full buy-ins on the overall culture and develop them slowly, and then snag talented, unsettled players from other schools to fill immediate needs.

Ag_EE_88 said:

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If we end out letting Buzz go in a couple of years b/c we still aren't where we should be, I think it's time to no longer look to pay a coach a top 10 salary when we likely aren't able to be consistently top 10. Better off hiring an up and comer and give them a few years and move on if necessary. Us paying coaches top salaries and then not having them really win much just doesn't make sense.

And it is really odd to see so many people wanting to give Buzz 6 years when they have said over and over before his hiring that it doesn't take 6 years to build a program. Like they give Buzz a do over due to COVID when it was clear that it wasn't COVID that was the problem. If it were COVID he wouldn't have had to start over with all new players.

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The last two coaches and arguably all three previous coaches were up and comers. The claim of any specific time to reach success is just an Internet "truth" unless you get someone like a Calipari, Pitino or so forth and correctly support their approach. Texas A&M has a history of economically funding sports for solid but rarely championship-level outcomes with some exceptions with the notion being post-season runs aiming for top-ten outcomes but settling for top-25 is acceptable.

Buzz has on his resume two power conferences and in both cases did well but never reached the E8. He was never going to be an instant sizzle coach. The folks on this forum discussed him several times over the years and generally (not consensus) though he got Texas A&M.

The Covid year is what it is. If you hold it against him you basically are blaming "some dude" for something it isn't clear he controlled. He DID turn over his roster after the Covid year possibly in response to the irresponsible behavior of his players without coming out and saying that. I won't say this year one, but might as well look at it that way.

In his original year one he surprised everyone with growth during the year and a strong finish like EVERYONE that is a good coach does. No good coach ends weaker than they started. So just watch and see.

If he doesn't finish his contract and isn't given a real chance to make progress the next hire is either harder or more expensive. But I'd discard the notion some specific frame is the right one without seeing how it plays out. That's just chicken daring tough guy BS. Which we endure a lot of here.

Aggies2009 said:

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Aston04 said:

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Aggies2009 said:

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phatty26 said:

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That fraud BK was 19-35 his first three years. That includes b12 and sec. I'm not a buzz defender but we kept that bum around for 8 seasons. Buzz had Covid to deal with I'm sur if Kennedy had that he'd still be here screwing the school out of a check.

---

BK took our basketball program as far as they've ever been in the tournament, and he did it twice. Oh, and he won a conference title, something that even Bill G and Turgeon couldn't do.

Buzz is making like $4 million a year for...... this.

---

And BK killed all the momentum Turge and BG built... and then rebuilt through incredible recruiting/still mediocre coaching (completely embarrassed when lost in the tournament each time)..

Back to now- The bottom line is Buzz has not recruited good enough. Since he's been here he hasn't signed one mega/prized recruit. Historically, our coaches are able to nail one at least every few years. Also, coaching strategy has been questionable- to me he has strayed too far from fundamentals on defense to try to give us an edge doing stuff other teams don't do... While the offense lacks movement and good enough playmakers. He's got to pick it up.

---

Turge and BCG combined for 1 Sweet Sixteen and 0 conference titles.

BK had 2 and 1. Being "embarrassed" in the Sweet Sixteen is better than going 1 and done in my book.

To me, Buzz has a good system but hasn't had players to execute that system. Basically the opposite of the later BK years (poor Xs and Os with good players making up for it). Sadly his system hasn't made up for the lack of talent. I'm not saying Buzz should be fired, and I'm hoping he can land 1-2 big recruits soon. Iif he does that, we'll be just fine.

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I can't believe we have someone making pro-BK arguments, maybe that's the most shocking thing I see here.

After 6 straight NCAA appearances for the Aggies, the BK led Aggies missed it four straight and finally made an appearance in his year 5. That was a very good team with 3 players who've had time in the NBA and another 4 who have played professionally after college, and was a 3 seed, but we needed a freaking bizarre miracle to beat the #11 seed in the round of 32. I don't know if it's fair or not, but many seemed to attribute that team's success to Stansbury. In addition to the talent increase it was the first Aggie team under BK I saw play with any sense of structure and purpose on offense.

BK's 2nd NCAA appearance in his 8 years was in 2018, an Aggie team that went 9-9 in conference despite having Robert Williams and 5 other players who went on to play professionally. The UNC win to make the Sweet 16 was fun, no doubt about that - but a fluke. We got blown out by Michigan similar to how we got beaten badly by OU in prior Sweet 16.

BK was WELL BELOW .500 in conference play over 8 season. Buzz actually went 10-8 in conference, better than BK's second "sweet 16 team", in his first year. Last year was a disaster in performance and with our Covid "luck". This year he completely rebuilt the team in the new world order of transfer rule changes and Covid eligibility changes and through early conference play it seemed to be going OK. Lots of youth and lack of game experience. I really didn't have a problem - disappointment, sure - with the 3 close losses to top SEC teams but that USC loss was a big blow, no doubt. Despite this we are still sitting at .500 in conference, BK only finished .500 or above in conference play 3 times in 8 years and if we finish .500 or better this year it will be 2 times in 3 years for Buzz.

We all had high expectations for Buzz - I sure did. Prior to getting hired by A&M he made the tourney in 8 of his 11 years as a head coach, which is a great stat. He did things at Virgina Tech, in the ACC, that the VT basketball program had never experienced. He was a great hire. It's possible he has changed in a way that prevents him from the same success at A&M, or it's possible the SEC has changed in ways that make it very difficult for the A&M program to compete, but to be honest I doubt it. I still believe he will get done what we hoped he would when hired, but I'm also disappointed if we don't make the tourney by year 3, no question. Year 3 is still in progress.

greg.w.h said:

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Ag_EE_88 said:

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If we end out letting Buzz go in a couple of years b/c we still aren't where we should be, I think it's time to no longer look to pay a coach a top 10 salary when we likely aren't able to be consistently top 10. Better off hiring an up and comer and give them a few years and move on if necessary. Us paying coaches top salaries and then not having them really win much just doesn't make sense.

And it is really odd to see so many people wanting to give Buzz 6 years when they have said over and over before his hiring that it doesn't take 6 years to build a program. Like they give Buzz a do over due to COVID when it was clear that it wasn't COVID that was the problem. If it were COVID he wouldn't have had to start over with all new players.

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The last two coaches and arguably all three previous coaches were up and comers. The claim of any specific time to reach success is just an Internet "truth" unless you get someone like a Calipari, Pitino or so forth and correctly support their approach. Texas A&M has a history of economically funding sports for solid but rarely championship-level outcomes with some exceptions with the notion being post-season runs aiming for top-ten outcomes but settling for top-25 is acceptable.

Buzz has on his resume two power conferences and in both cases did well but never reached the E8. He was never going to be an instant sizzle coach. The folks on this forum discussed him several times over the years and generally (not consensus) though he got Texas A&M.

The Covid year is what it is. If you hold it against him you basically are blaming "some dude" for something it isn't clear he controlled. He DID turn over his roster after the Covid year possibly in response to the irresponsible behavior of his players without coming out and saying that. I won't say this year one, but might as well look at it that way.

In his original year one he surprised everyone with growth during the year and a strong finish like EVERYONE that is a good coach does. No good coach ends weaker than they started. So just watch and see.

If he doesn't finish his contract and isn't given a real chance to make progress the next hire is either harder or more expensive. But I'd discard the notion some specific frame is the right one without seeing how it plays out. That's just chicken daring tough guy BS. Which we endure a lot of here.

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What is your definition of a 'real chance'? And what does 'seeing how it plays out' mean to you? We are seeing how it plays out. If we are in the bottom of the SEC next year, he should be gone.

Edit: And I actually do like what I've seen this year but we don't have the players to win and you have to have better talent than we have to do that. You can only get so much out of motivational speeches.

Even if this team finished dead last next year it would be a major mistake to fire Buzz. Though I doubt the team finishes last.