PatAg said:

---

Deputy Travis Junior said:

---

Quote:

---

They do. They get a free education, room and board, and myriad other benefits. Most students go into debt for as much as decades to get a FRACTION of what these guys get. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of kids who compete for these scholarships--completely voluntarily.

---

Communist dreck. The market values for some of these guys are far higher than the values of their scholarship packages.

Quote:

---

Nobody holds a gun to their head.

---

The NCAA is a monopoly; there aren't really alternatives (though foreign ball is finally starting to emerge as one).

---

To me, that is the issue here. SOME of the players are absolutely worth paying. Then there are the other 80% or so of the college athletes. Do you pay them all equally? How would you decide what rates to pay which players.

---

There is also the whole Title IX issue, which "might" make it difficult for schools to provide stipends to some athletes and not others.

I guess the purist in me doesn't like it, but the solution is probably to allow athletes to obtain "sponsorships" from third parties, with the understanding that no money can go to coaches or anyone else affiliated with the school, and the sponsorships cannot be tied to attending a particular school. There might need to be other restrictions in place that don't occur to me right now.

Free market, as you say.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

---

Quote:

---

They do. They get a free education, room and board, and myriad other benefits. Most students go into debt for as much as decades to get a FRACTION of what these guys get. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of kids who compete for these scholarships--completely voluntarily.

---

Communist dreck. The market values for some of these guys are far higher than the values of their scholarship packages.

Quote:

---

Nobody holds a gun to their head.

---

The NCAA is a monopoly; there aren't really alternatives (though foreign ball is finally starting to emerge as one).

---

Lavar ball is an option

If he throws in a pair of his Big Baller shoes, we're now reaching a level of compensation befitting the players' mint-like powers.

I don't think some of the players are worth as much as they think they are.

Obviously there would be a tier of players who could cash in on millions.

Quote:

---

There is also the whole Title IX issue, which "might" make it difficult for schools to provide stipends to some athletes and not others.

---

Title IX really messes it up. Sponsorships, or just a general right to cash in on their names, is probably the easiest solution.

Honestly, in the world of modern college athletics (where some sports are HUGE business), Title IX needs to disappear.

Title IX isn't going anywhere.

It certainly isn't going anywhere if your argument is a few sports teams at a few schools make a lot of money.

LawHall88 said:

---

PatAg said:

---

Deputy Travis Junior said:

---

Quote:

---

They do. They get a free education, room and board, and myriad other benefits. Most students go into debt for as much as decades to get a FRACTION of what these guys get. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of kids who compete for these scholarships--completely voluntarily.

---

Communist dreck. The market values for some of these guys are far higher than the values of their scholarship packages.

Quote:

---

Nobody holds a gun to their head.

---

The NCAA is a monopoly; there aren't really alternatives (though foreign ball is finally starting to emerge as one).

---

To me, that is the issue here. SOME of the players are absolutely worth paying. Then there are the other 80% or so of the college athletes. Do you pay them all equally? How would you decide what rates to pay which players.

---

There is also the whole Title IX issue, which "might" make it difficult for schools to provide stipends to some athletes and not others.

I guess the purist in me doesn't like it, but the solution is probably to allow athletes to obtain "sponsorships" from third parties, with the understanding that no money can go to coaches or anyone else affiliated with the school, and the sponsorships cannot be tied to attending a particular school. There might need to be other restrictions in place that don't occur to me right now.

Free market, as you say.

---

I like this because, as people have said, only a few of these athletes are actually worth more money than the benefits they are currently getting.

I agree with everyone saying that the scholly benefits are great, the problem is a ton of money being made and the people most responsible for making that $ (the players) are getting a very small fraction of it. That money has to go somewhere and the players naturally feel that it is unfair that people with no skin in the game are getting so much of it.

I struggle to see anything wrong with a player taking a loan from an agent. I know it's against the rules, but they are certainly stupid rules. The silliest thing is that the rules will change in a couple of years just like the texting stuff and now all the sudden the same that got you suspended or expelled is totally legal. The concept is no different than the legal system but the quickness of the change and severity of punishment going from excessive to zero is what gets me. Like how the same texting rule that got a lot of coaches in major trouble was abolished & the same thing is now totally legal a few years later. I just watched a thing on the Wyoming 14 and it reminds me of how the Mormon church all the sudden decided black people are cool through "divine intervention". Welp, we had a nice run of racism but it's over, someone better have some divine intervention!

I can't stand LaVar Ball but I do wish there were a domestic minor-league option and elimination of the mandatory one year of college so that the ones that want to make money can go do that.

Harry Dunne said:

---

LawHall88 said:

---

PatAg said:

---

Deputy Travis Junior said:

---

Quote:

---

They do. They get a free education, room and board, and myriad other benefits. Most students go into debt for as much as decades to get a FRACTION of what these guys get. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of kids who compete for these scholarships--completely voluntarily.

---

Communist dreck. The market values for some of these guys are far higher than the values of their scholarship packages.

Quote:

---

Nobody holds a gun to their head.

---

The NCAA is a monopoly; there aren't really alternatives (though foreign ball is finally starting to emerge as one).

---

To me, that is the issue here. SOME of the players are absolutely worth paying. Then there are the other 80% or so of the college athletes. Do you pay them all equally? How would you decide what rates to pay which players.

---

There is also the whole Title IX issue, which "might" make it difficult for schools to provide stipends to some athletes and not others.

I guess the purist in me doesn't like it, but the solution is probably to allow athletes to obtain "sponsorships" from third parties, with the understanding that no money can go to coaches or anyone else affiliated with the school, and the sponsorships cannot be tied to attending a particular school. There might need to be other restrictions in place that don't occur to me right now.

Free market, as you say.

---

I like this because, as people have said, only a few of these athletes are actually worth more money than the benefits they are currently getting.

I agree with everyone saying that the scholly benefits are great, the problem is a ton of money being made and the people most responsible for making that $ (the players) are getting a very small fraction of it. That money has to go somewhere and the players naturally feel that it is unfair that people with no skin in the game are getting so much of it.

I struggle to see anything wrong with a player taking a loan from an agent. I know it's against the rules, but they are certainly stupid rules. The silliest thing is that the rules will change in a couple of years just like the texting stuff and now all the sudden the same that got you suspended or expelled is totally legal. The concept is no different than the legal system but the quickness of the change and severity of punishment going from excessive to zero is what gets me. Like how the same texting rule that got a lot of coaches in major trouble was abolished & the same thing is now totally legal a few years later. I just watched a thing on the Wyoming 14 and it reminds me of how the Mormon church all the sudden decided black people are cool through "divine intervention". Welp, we had a nice run of racism but it's over, someone better have some divine intervention!

I can't stand LaVar Ball but I do wish there were a domestic minor-league option and elimination of the mandatory one year of college so that the ones that want to make money can go do that.

---

The one year rule is an NBA rule...nothing to do with NCAA. And watch what players want to play in the Ball minor league.

Yes, it's an NBA rule that was put into place to appease the NCAA. Adam Silver wants it abolished and it's a ridiculous rule. Why do you think he meets with NCAA folks to talk about getting rid of it? Do you think it's a one-way street?

I should have been more clear I wish that the NBA one and done were abolished so that players good enough to go straight in the NBA could do so, AND I wish there were a minor-league option available. Going to China for an 18-year-old is not a viable option for 99% of these kids.

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

Pay the players, remove their scholarship. Problem solved.

Certain players (top 1% perhaps) are worth a significant amount more than a scholarship. The amount a top player may be worth is correlated to the sports profitability. The NCAA themselves sold the tournament broadcast rights for billions of dollars as of 2010. This doesn't even take into account shoe deals, ticket sales, commercials, advertising and concessions. Discussions regarding the "purity" of amateur athletics against this tapestry of commercialization is laughable. Perhaps things were different in the early 1900's when the NCAA was founded.

Truthfully most players don't move the needle and a scholarship plus room and board would be a fair deal. However I will never act surprised (or even disappointed) that an elite athlete is attempting to circumvent arbitrary rule's set by a monopoly in order to get what they are worth.

94chem said:

---

Still sad that he didn't take the ball from Webber.

---

They were losing anyway... that just sealed it.

jeffdjohnson said:

---

Certain players (top 1% perhaps) are worth a significant amount more than a scholarship. The amount a top player may be worth is correlated to the sports profitability. The NCAA themselves sold the tournament broadcast rights for billions of dollars as of 2010. This doesn't even take into account shoe deals, ticket sales, commercials, advertising and concessions. Discussions regarding the "purity" of amateur athletics against this tapestry of commercialization is laughable. Perhaps things were different in the early 1900's when the NCAA was founded.

Truthfully most players don't move the needle and a scholarship plus room and board would be a fair deal. However I will never act surprised (or even disappointed) that an elite athlete is attempting to circumvent arbitrary rule's set by a monopoly in order to get what they are worth.

---

It's a monopoly. However, that monopoly shouldn't have ANY rights or say so about your image or signature. Let them sell it if they can, through a regulated marketplace. One that gives back to the colleges struggling to provide for their athletes. NCAA execs would make even more money... win win.

If a one year scholarship is worth $50k, then do the following:

a) offer the student athlete the regular scholarship
b) offer the 50k as a "salary", and let the athlete pay everything themselves (except tuition)


A realistic option would be to allow athletes to "earn" a certain amount every year, but cap it monthly. Let an athlete "earn" 20k (or a max amount) a year by whatever means (side job, autographs, donors, etc), but make it capped at 2k a month. Also, tax the amount they "earn". This money could be "earned" on top of their scholarship, with not many restrictions.

Harry Dunne said:

---

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

---

Have you ever heard of the G-League?

You know, affiliated with the NBA. HS grads can declare for draft.

Viable option. Able to market themselves as much as they want.

Few kids go for that because the fact is, most kids want to play in front of thousands at Kentucky for an NCAA championship instead of the minor leagues.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

---

I can't give you an exact solution, but I think variable payments would have to be part of it. I did some club sports at A&M and while the university gave us some money (usually gas and vans when we traveled for competition) we paid for a lot of stuff ourselves. Which I think is fair because very few people were willing to pay to watch us (sorry star soccer player, but you aren't going to make what the starting QB does).

The injuries are a big thing for me. For example, Ryan Swope was absolutely talented enough for the NFL, yet he ate a bunch of concussions and was never able to earn a dime on his value. Meanwhile, the coaches, athletic directors, and NCAA administrators made millions. That's bull*****

---

Sometimes life is a kick in the crotch. Ryan is taking advantage of the education he received while attending A&M. If others don't then it's on them.

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

---

Have you ever heard of the G-League?

You know, affiliated with the NBA. HS grads can declare for draft.

Viable option. Able to market themselves as much as they want.

Few kids go for that because the fact is, most kids want to play in front of thousands at Kentucky for an NCAA championship instead of the minor leagues.

---

G-League? Never heard of it.

Have you ever heard of knowing what the **** you are talking about before running your mouth?

Do you know what the level necessary to get a G-League roster spot is? Average scholarship player even for a good P5 team has zero chance of getting a G-League roster spot out of high school.

The actual fact is, few kids go because they are not good enough. Regarding Kentucky, the soon to be well-known fact there is few kids good enough to play at UK choose G-League because they get paid more at Kentucky.

Perhaps all college students should get paid. The university benefits from successful students.

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

---

Few kids go for that because the fact is, most kids want to play in front of thousands at Kentucky for an NCAA championship instead of the minor leagues.

---

One last word on this: Most kids could give a flip about playing in the NCAA championship when you throw $100k at them. Wasn't Ayton 87% Kansas 13% Kentucky until Sean Miller set up 100 large for him? You think he all of the sudden thought Arizona had a better chance of winning it all?

Harry Dunne said:

---

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

---

Have you ever heard of the G-League?

You know, affiliated with the NBA. HS grads can declare for draft.

Viable option. Able to market themselves as much as they want.

Few kids go for that because the fact is, most kids want to play in front of thousands at Kentucky for an NCAA championship instead of the minor leagues.

---

G-League? Never heard of it.

Have you ever heard of knowing what the **** you are talking about before running your mouth?

Do you know what the level necessary to get a G-League roster spot is? Average scholarship player even for a good P5 team has zero chance of getting a G-League roster spot out of high school.

The actual fact is, few kids go because they are not good enough. Regarding Kentucky, the soon to be well-known fact there is few kids good enough to play at UK choose G-League because they get paid more at Kentucky.

---

So now we have to worry about the elite athletes AND the mediocre ones. Any kid that is good enough for the NBA right out of HS can make a G-League team.

But now we want a special minor league where pretty good athletes can participate and people will pay them money. I've seen this script, it fails....repeatedly.

If you can't make the G-League, you aren't talented enough to be driving TV revenue that gets the NCAA millions of dollars.
You're just another good player that is easily replaceable by the next kid.

LOL at the sustainability of a basketball minor league where the pretty good guys go to play.

The strive for utopia kills everything.

Harry Dunne said:

---

Wasn't Ayton 87% Kansas 13% Kentucky until Sean Miller set up 100 large for him? You think he all of the sudden thought Arizona had a better chance of winning it all?

---

Mo. Bamba.

Harry Dunne said:

---

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

---

Few kids go for that because the fact is, most kids want to play in front of thousands at Kentucky for an NCAA championship instead of the minor leagues.

---

One last word on this: Most kids could give a flip about playing in the NCAA championship when you throw $100k at them. Wasn't Ayton 87% Kansas 13% Kentucky until Sean Miller set up 100 large for him? You think he all of the sudden thought Arizona had a better chance of winning it all?

---

You don't think Ayton plays in front of thousands at Arizona?

The choice wasn't which school, the question was about choosing NCAA basketball or minor leagues.
Both paths get you to the NBA if your good. He was already resolved to play NCAA basketball.

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

---

Have you ever heard of the G-League?

You know, affiliated with the NBA. HS grads can declare for draft.

Viable option. Able to market themselves as much as they want.

Few kids go for that because the fact is, most kids want to play in front of thousands at Kentucky for an NCAA championship instead of the minor leagues.

---

G-League? Never heard of it.

Have you ever heard of knowing what the **** you are talking about before running your mouth?

Do you know what the level necessary to get a G-League roster spot is? Average scholarship player even for a good P5 team has zero chance of getting a G-League roster spot out of high school.

The actual fact is, few kids go because they are not good enough. Regarding Kentucky, the soon to be well-known fact there is few kids good enough to play at UK choose G-League because they get paid more at Kentucky.

---

So now we have to worry about the elite athletes AND the mediocre ones. Any kid that is good enough for the NBA right out of HS can make a G-League team.

But now we want a special minor league where pretty good athletes can participate and people will pay them money. I've seen this script, it fails....repeatedly.

If you can't make the G-League, you aren't talented enough to be driving TV revenue that gets the NCAA millions of dollars.
You're just another good player that is easily replaceable by the next kid.

LOL at the sustainability of a basketball minor league where the pretty good guys go to play.

---

I wish that you were trolling me but I'm pretty sure your reading comp just sucks.

We already have a special minor league making a lot of money where pretty good athletes are playing. It's called the NCAA and it's hiding behind amateurism in order to give it's employees a gift-in-kind rather than actual money. It's not just stars out there. How many eyeballs tuned in to A&M Vandy vs. how few of those guys are going to play pro basketball much less in the NBA.

Minor league baseball works because it's been in place since long before the NCAA, and because it existed, NCAA baseball never got as big. Minor league basketball can no longer happen at that level because college is already taking the loyalties and dollars of prospective fans.

Why can't the kids like Ayton go to the G league straight (where they'll have a worse life than in college bball) and leave college bball to the Admon Gilders?

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

Iowaggie said:

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

And players won't want to play in the Ball minors because he is a bush league ass clown and hopefully kids and families know better than to put their faith in him. But if there were a viable option, I think a lot of kids would go for that. I don't even mean a high dollar pathway, just something similar to MLBs minor leagues where the pay might not be that great at the beginning for most but there is a strong structure and definite path to the majors.

---

Few kids go for that because the fact is, most kids want to play in front of thousands at Kentucky for an NCAA championship instead of the minor leagues.

---

One last word on this: Most kids could give a flip about playing in the NCAA championship when you throw $100k at them. Wasn't Ayton 87% Kansas 13% Kentucky until Sean Miller set up 100 large for him? You think he all of the sudden thought Arizona had a better chance of winning it all?

---

You don't think Ayton plays in front of thousands at Arizona?

The choice wasn't which school, the question was about choosing NCAA basketball or minor leagues.
Both paths get you to the NBA if your good. He was already resolved to play NCAA basketball.

---

You're really good with the idiotic rhetorical questions, aren't you?

A guy that would be swayed by $100,000 seems like the perfect candidate to play minor league basketball to me. He is one of the guys that could actually have played in the G-league, but the typical G-league salary is around $20,000 (I think Caruso made 50 at the start of the year). So in this case it's not a joke, he was actually getting paid better at Arizona!

I understand where you are coming from, I really do, but do yourself a favor and do a little research on the numbers and the history of all of this before coming at this argument so strong. I think you might not be so blindly aggressive if you could for two seconds stop thinking of them as spoiled athletes and think of at least some of them as basketball players who will never have better earning potential than they do as young basketball players. We have 1M way worse problems than this in society, but that doesn't mean that the NCAA shouldn't be a little more generous with the people that generate the money they are living so fat off of.

Method Man said:

---

DP

---

Harry Dunne said:

---

Method Man said:

---

Why can't the kids like Ayton go to the G league straight (where they'll have a worse life than in college bball) and leave college bball to the Admon Gilders?

---

He could, but see above. Arizona paid him more and gave him a better chance to compete and develop. In the G league would be competing against grown men that have played college ball and some seasoned pros too. I think he would have done fine, but as long as Arizona is going to get you untaxed revenue under the table and you get to play in front of thousands LOL, why not take the traditional path?

I don't think anyone is worried about the Aytons or Mudiays of the world. I'm definitely not.

---

i don't. I guess we can give them a paycheck and make them pay for food, parking, training, housing etc. Most of them are doing way better than they would in some minor league imo.

Method Man said:

---

i don't. I guess we can give them a paycheck and make them pay for food, parking, training, housing etc. Most of them are doing way better than they would in some minor league imo.

---

I agree with this, but we are the minor league - especially for the guys that leave early. The whole academic thing is a charade for the one and done guy.

Quote:

---

Most of them are doing way better than they would in some minor league imo.

---

Of course they are, because the NCAA has all of the financial resources right now.

wacarnolds said:

---

Method Man said:

---

Why can't the kids like Ayton go to the G league straight (where they'll have a worse life than in college bball) and leave college bball to the Admon Gilders?

---

Why do you assume Admon (or any other player) would choose NCAA basketball over a legitimate paycheck?

---

I won't assume anything about any particular player but a ton of athletes choose NCAA sports over a "legitimate paycheck" every year, including male basketball players.

The "problem" for the players seems to be those "legitimate paychecks" don't pay a lot. And they sure as heck don't pay enough to make up for the worse facilities and coaching they'd be getting.

And I say boohoo, that's not Texas A&M's problem.