I'm not one to nitpick when things are going well or try to diminish any success the team is currently having but I'm going to nitpick on this certain topic. Yesterday, we blew their asses out of the gym, however, as a team we still continue to give open looks from the 3. Now it didn't matter yesterday because they couldn't hit **** and they shot an horrible %, 2-21 or something, but that team averaged about 10 3's per game made, so give about 21-24 points and it's a new ball game. Of course, not every shot was a great shot that should go in regardlessly, but a lot of the missed 3's were wide open. Not every team is going to shot that bad, and unfortunately I think it's going to bite us in the ass one game. Thoughts?
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An area of improvement going forward.
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Last: 6 yr ago by AgGrad99
As long as we aren' consistently giving their best three point shooters open looks I am fine with it. Overall defense has been excellent.
Oklahoma State kind of sucks at shooting threes, so maybe that was on purpose?
I have a feeling we're not going to guard teams that shoot the ball well the same way.
I have a feeling we're not going to guard teams that shoot the ball well the same way.
We have always under Kennedy given the other team three point shots in the beginning of the game to see if they can hit them while focusing on an elite shooter more closely. This season we can do the same but have the length and size on perimeter to close a gap quicker against a hot shooter or two
Yeah, the key is who is shooting them, and we'll do a good job on that.
We're also already showing that we're going to take some risks on defense to try and get in transition.
So between the way we normally play defense anyway, and being a little more risky, players are going to get some open threes. It's just making sure it's the right players.
But getting an opponent to shoot a shot they probably won't make is the entire idea. Last night OSU couldn't throw it in the ocean so we let them keep shooting it. Don't see a problem with that. If they'd have started to make them we'd have done something different.
We're also already showing that we're going to take some risks on defense to try and get in transition.
So between the way we normally play defense anyway, and being a little more risky, players are going to get some open threes. It's just making sure it's the right players.
But getting an opponent to shoot a shot they probably won't make is the entire idea. Last night OSU couldn't throw it in the ocean so we let them keep shooting it. Don't see a problem with that. If they'd have started to make them we'd have done something different.
I don't think that is in my top 10 for areas of improvement.
What are yours?
I agree with the defense's overall progress, I just feel that it's going to bite our ass one of these games.
The other thing that was interesting to me was that we either forced them late into the shot clock (or that was their plan) for a lot of possessions in the first half. OSU was forced into a bunch of garbage shots to start the game. That changed as the game progressed.
Turnovers and giving up too many offensive rebounds would be mine.Ajm1115 said:
What are yours?
Yeah, offensive rebounds would be #1 for me, but it's also not something I'm overly concerned about yet, I think we'll get a lot better at it.
We always give up a ton of open 3s. Most college kids can't really shoot them though
My biggest concern going forward is lack of offensive execution in doing what we do best. Tyler Davis has had a pretty rough 3-quarter stretch since the second half of UCSB, and some of that is due to foul trouble, but I think some of that is also due to us not feeding him the ball and letting him go to work.
It is a bit of a double-edged sword in that our guards - Starks, Caldwell and Wilson - are really attacking the basket and playing fast (which I like to see), but have gotten out of control and turned aggression into turnovers and bad shots. Starks especially needs to slow down, set up the offense and feed Tyler Davis when he is in the game.
We have been shooting really well from beyond the arc (and jumpers in general) thus far, and the right guys are taking those shots, so I don't expect us to drop off the map for a long period of time, but we are going to have games where 3s aren't falling and Starks misses those pull-up jumpers from 18 feet. If we don't feed Davis, we will lose those games.
I think it is a freshman thing, which will change with experience and time, so its really not that huge of a concern, but it is what I have noticed the most so far.
The offensive rebounds don't concern me yet, as last night was just one game, and we still killed them on the total boards. Turnovers ... well, that is going to come with young players.
It is a bit of a double-edged sword in that our guards - Starks, Caldwell and Wilson - are really attacking the basket and playing fast (which I like to see), but have gotten out of control and turned aggression into turnovers and bad shots. Starks especially needs to slow down, set up the offense and feed Tyler Davis when he is in the game.
We have been shooting really well from beyond the arc (and jumpers in general) thus far, and the right guys are taking those shots, so I don't expect us to drop off the map for a long period of time, but we are going to have games where 3s aren't falling and Starks misses those pull-up jumpers from 18 feet. If we don't feed Davis, we will lose those games.
I think it is a freshman thing, which will change with experience and time, so its really not that huge of a concern, but it is what I have noticed the most so far.
The offensive rebounds don't concern me yet, as last night was just one game, and we still killed them on the total boards. Turnovers ... well, that is going to come with young players.
This is why the NCAA tournament almost always comes down to guard play though. In college, if teams decide to take away the post they can do it and there isn't much you can do about it. Oklahoma State decided they were going to make sure we couldn't get the ball on the low block, and they had long enough guards to make sure we couldn't.
Now, there was a stretch of the game where I think we let them off the hook by not making them defend Tyler, but for the most part that was a conscious decision that they made which allowed other guys to get open.
What I mean though is that if a team is going to deny the post, you have to actually make them do it so that you get your openings. If they're going to sag/double/whatever, you still have to go through the motions to get them overcommitted or overloaded depending on what they're doing so that you get your opening.
For a while last night it seemed like we knew they weren't going to let us get it inside, so we didn't even pretend like we wanted to, which let them stay in their normal assignments.
Now, there was a stretch of the game where I think we let them off the hook by not making them defend Tyler, but for the most part that was a conscious decision that they made which allowed other guys to get open.
What I mean though is that if a team is going to deny the post, you have to actually make them do it so that you get your openings. If they're going to sag/double/whatever, you still have to go through the motions to get them overcommitted or overloaded depending on what they're doing so that you get your opening.
For a while last night it seemed like we knew they weren't going to let us get it inside, so we didn't even pretend like we wanted to, which let them stay in their normal assignments.
Geez, I couldn't be more tired of the posts that complain about giving guys open 3s even though they are missing them. Also, we only gave up a handful of wide open 3s yesterday. I would say for the most part our perimeter defense has been much improved and we are contesting most shots. Just because they are shooting them doesn't mean they are good shots.
OSU was 3 for 24.
OSU was 3 for 24.
You're right. There will be some games where teams get hot from 3 and we may lose. That happens at every level of the sport.Ajm1115 said:
I agree with the defense's overall progress, I just feel that it's going to bite our ass one of these games.
Even though Hogg is a good 3-point shooter, he is just as lazy as last year on defense. That type of thing will bite you in the ass in big games.
I think we can all agree that defense isn't Hogg's biggest strength, but he's doing a little better by basically every metric so far this season.
hmmmQuote:
I'm not one to nitpick when things are going well or try to diminish any success the team is currently having but I'm going to nitpick on this certain topic.
I literally told you I'm not the type to nitpick but that I was going to nitpick on their topic lol reading comprehension on Texags a its finest.
Limiting turnovers and rebounding are my big areas to improve.
Turnovers. Especially in the form of low bounce passes to the bigs.
Complacency is one of my biggest concerns and limiting silly turnovers. We need to continue to attack the hoop and make plays for Williams and Davis. We can't settle for shooting outside jumpers late in the shot clock instead of letting Williams and Davis go to work. Williams looked uncomfortable on the block last night and must continue to get better.
Why nit pick the defense when the opponent is shooting 13% from 3 point land and 29% overall??
I'll take those numbers any day! At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if they're wide open.
If they can't hit the side of the barn and they continue to shoot, isn't that just good defensive strategy??
Why nit pick the defense when the opponent is shooting 13% from 3 point land and 29% overall??
I'll take those numbers any day! At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if they're wide open.
If they can't hit the side of the barn and they continue to shoot, isn't that just good defensive strategy??
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
Yea, I don't mind - it's finally hoops season. Pick a topic and let's discuss. I really like these kinds of threads.boboguitar said:hmmmQuote:
I'm not one to nitpick when things are going well or try to diminish any success the team is currently having but I'm going to nitpick on this certain topic.
1 - Opinion: too many open threes
2 - Counter opinion: not horrible because it's mainly by design
3 - Follow-up: what do you think is an issue?
4 - Response: consensus mainly offensive rebounds and not getting to Tyler enough
That, my brothers, is good conversation.
Oh, and offensive boards and turn-overs for me. BUT, I'm hoping Rob gets his legs under him (he was a good offensive rebounder last year) and JJ helps with the turnovers. One point on turns - there haven't been a bunch of live ball turnovers like we had last year. I can only really think of one "break-away" for OSU last night and Rob responded quickly with the 3/4 court pass for a layup on the other end.
Oklahoma State had some length at the wing that helped them on the boards also. I think we'd be a lot better if we were facing a more traditional lineup but we have to get better at facing non-traditional lineups because I can't imagine anyone is going to try and go big with us.
USC will be a good test for this also. They're going to spread things out.
USC will be a good test for this also. They're going to spread things out.
BrandoC said:
Even though Hogg is a good 3-point shooter, he is just as lazy as last year on defense. That type of thing will bite you in the ass in big games.
Gonna disagree with you there for this season so far. He's one of the few guys boxing out, for one. He also seems to have learned to use his length. I remember him being on their top player that just came back and essentially shut him down.
Quote:
What are yours?
mine would be being excessively intoxicated in public before sundown
Best way to be in public imo!
I agree with this.miller0926 said:Turnovers and giving up too many offensive rebounds would be mine.Ajm1115 said:
What are yours?
We are so dang talented, but are really sloppy with the ball. Turnovers are the only way opponents have been able to stay in the game against us. I don't want this to cost us a game later in the season when it matters. Our entry passes have got to be better, and we've got to break the press better.
If we can do that, there isn't a lot that holds this team back.
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