New OOC scheduling rule

5,319 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by LawHall88
wacarnolds
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I guess this was announced at the SEC meetings today...

@marcweiszer
SEC requiring hoops teams to schedule nonconference opponents with three-year RPI average of 175 or better.
greg.w.h
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Hard to avoid decent opponents...how can we emulate football cupcakes if we keep that up?
TXAggie2011
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What a high standard...
Hop
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I don't have a problem w having a minimum standard for the league, but not this one. Sometimes a team will need to schedule a 175+ opponent for timing purposes to make the schedule work. Like last year for A&M, they needed to schedule four quick games before the Bahamas. The standard should be an overall OOC RPI minimum, not a single game minimum. This takes a lot of flexibility out of OOC scheduling.
mikesyracuse1
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One drawback will be that OOC opponents in the "good" range will now be charging the SEC schools more for these guarantee games. I still think this is a good decision and will help the overall rpi of the conference.

mikesyracuse1
mdanyc03
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Meh, not really. You still have 161 teams to choose from.
Method Man
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I agree with hop that it will be hard to skirt around the rules if we have to worry about ApR.
mikesyracuse1
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We should see more common OOC opponents with other SEC teams in the future as all 14 teams will be looking for home games with the same 100 teams each year.

mikesyracuse1
mikesyracuse1
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quote:
Meh, not really. You still have 161 teams to choose from.
I had the opportunity to work with schedulling OOC opponents in the past and coaches and AD's have no shame on the things they ask for on these guarantee games.

I still think its a good move.

mikesyracuse1
Hop
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quote:
Meh, not really. You still have 161 teams to choose from.


It will be a lot harder than you think with 14 SEC teams going after the same opponents in the 90-175 range. These teams will also jack up their guarantee because the "demand" from the SEC will give them a lot more leverage.

I agree w the sentiment, but this rule really handcuffs the SEC teams in the timing and logistics of scheduling. This rule in essence removes the pool of potential opponents by 50%.

I'm also curious how the league will enforce such a rule.
mikesyracuse1
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quote:



I'm also curious how the league will enforce such a rule.
and what about the contracts of games already agreed upon for next year with teams above 175.

mikesyracuse1
Tango Mike
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I like a rule about OOC quality, but 175 seems pretty high for an entire schedule. Not the SEC's problem, but it will also crush the small schools and SWAC schools that use guarantee games to fund their whole AD
Pumpkinhead
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Wow. Did ya'll see that second tweet about Mizzou as well?

@marcweiszer

SEC requiring hoops teams to schedule nonconference opponents with three-year RPI average of 175 or better.

@marcweiszer

SEC allowing hoops teams to optionally replace Missouri on their conference schedule with a non-conference opponent that has a three-year RPI average of 175 or better.
Tango Mike
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What? That can't be serious. How is that even an idea?
mdanyc03
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quote:
What? That can't be serious. How is that even an idea?


It is a joke because Missouri wouldn't meet the standard.
mdanyc03
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I agree it is high. Considering Missouri had and RPI of 224 last year.
bobinator
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quote:
I don't have a problem w having a minimum standard for the league, but not this one. Sometimes a team will need to schedule a 175+ opponent for timing purposes to make the schedule work. Like last year for A&M, they needed to schedule four quick games before the Bahamas. The standard should be an overall OOC RPI minimum, not a single game minimum. This takes a lot of flexibility out of OOC scheduling.
I'm with Hop here for a few reasons.

1) And most obvious... Auburn and Missouri were both worse than 175 last year, so should the SEC really be grandstanding on a limit that our own teams could fall below? What if every league adopted this rule? Could Missouri play anyone?

2) This hurts those lower conference teams. So now nobody from the SEC can play anyone from the SWAC? If every league did this, who are SWAC teams supposed to play?

and 3, as Hop said, sometimes you need an emergency team to fill in a game and it's not going to bury your whole schedule. We played two teams worse than 300 last year and still had a top 50 non-con RPI.
GrayMatter
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I think the RPI minimum should be the last team's RPI in conference standings from the previous year.

It does put schools in a bind for scheduling. We're gonna end up seeing common opponents for every SEC school each year and the potential to schedule less games due to this RPI requirement.
Chuck Gay
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Is this even a real thing? There are 351 Division 1 teams and 14 in the SEC. So, excluding the conference teams, you are down to a pool of 161 of the 337 teams that you could schedule for non-conference games. If this is accurate, based on last year's RPI (I'm not calculating a 3 year average), teams such as Oklahoma St., TCU, Wyoming, Harvard, Sam Houston St., DePaul, Army, Navy, Air Force, Loyola Marymount, Charlotte, Tulane, St. John's, Boston College, Minnesota, Rice, North Texas, Southern Miss, etc. could not be scheduled. It just seems too restrictive to have NO teams below 175.
bobinator
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Also, for what it's worth, playing teams with crap RPIs hasn't been the SEC's biggest problem in recent years, it's that some of our members (ourselves included actually...) keep losing to them.

If you're going to play a crap team, you better freaking beat them.
GrayMatter
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quote:
Also, for what it's worth, playing teams with crap RPIs hasn't been the SEC's biggest problem in recent years, it's that some of our members (ourselves included actually...) keep losing to them.

If you're going to play a crap team, you better freaking beat them.
Very good point.
LawHall88
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quote:
Is this even a real thing? There are 351 Division 1 teams and 14 in the SEC. So, excluding the conference teams, you are down to a pool of 161 of the 337 teams that you could schedule for non-conference games. If this is accurate, based on last year's RPI (I'm not calculating a 3 year average), teams such as Oklahoma St., TCU, Wyoming, Harvard, Sam Houston St., DePaul, Army, Navy, Air Force, Loyola Marymount, Charlotte, Tulane, St. John's, Boston College, Minnesota, Rice, North Texas, Southern Miss, etc. could not be scheduled. It just seems too restrictive to have NO teams below 175.
Do we know how many schools we can choose from given it is a three year rolling average of 175? Does that increase or decrease the number of schools that meet the standard? Presumably the conference has researched this. I doubt they just pulled 175 out of the air.
burlesona
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Well, I think this is great

You say it drops the pool to ~160 teams to pick from, but that's more than the entire 128 in FBS. Yeah you have to schedule more games but it's still enough to pick from.

As for hurting the lower conferences, sorry but when did it become our job to take care of them? They aren't our farm league or anything. It's on them to find a way to pay their bills.

As to the comment, the problem isn't scheduling those teams it's beating them: yeah that's true. But I think that's missing the point.

This should have been called the South Carolina rule. That's what this is really about. The conference RPI has been so bad lately, people don't respect us in hoops. I see this scheduling rule as throwing down a gauntlet to the schools and coaches, saying we are *serious* about being a hoops league, either get up to par or get humiliated when you can't eat cupcakes to get to .500 for the year with a crap team.

This rule is a statement about the SEC's commitment to becoming a hoops power - and THAT is reason enough to like it.
mallen
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It would still be 175 teams to choose from minus the 14 teams in the SEC.
LawHall88
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quote:
One thing the league has to improve to change perception, is to schedule tougher games and win those games. Sankey said a specific expectation has been put in place for non-conference scheduling.

"We use a three-year RPI average at the selection date for the NCAA committee and expect our teams for the coming year to have an opponent's average RPI that is 175 or better," Sankey said. "Then we'll move that to 150 or better in the future."


http://www.knoxnews.com/sports/vols/football/alabamas-nick-saban-pounds-home-point-on-satellite-camps-3415da33-345d-6dc0-e053-0100007fb64f-381460561.html
mallen
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I guess the next reasonable question to ask is what penalties does a school face for scheduling an opponent who is ranked lower than the threshold? I would assume this is bound to happen.
Chuck Gay
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The article from the link above (quoted below) is quite different from the tweet in the OP. This says an opponents's average RPI of 175 or better - not every opponent with an RPI of 175 or better.
quote:
Talking Hoops: The conference's men's basketball coaches had an extensive conversation Tuesday with Sankey and Mike Tranghese, the former Big East commissioner who serves as the Special Advisor to the Commissioner for Men's Basketball in the SEC. Tennessee coach Rick Barnes said the discussion was a helpful big picture conversation necessary for a league that sent just three teams to the NCAA tournament in March.

"There's nobody that knows the lay of the land of college basketball any better than Mike," Barnes said. "Where he's been and what he's done. I just think we all realize there's a perception we need to change and things we need to do to do that. ... He made some great comments today. He understands from a perspective of where we are in terms of changing perception."

One thing the league has to improve to change perception, is to schedule tougher games and win those games. Sankey said a specific expectation has been put in place for non-conference scheduling.

"We use a three-year RPI average at the selection date for the NCAA committee and expect our teams for the coming year to have an opponent's average RPI that is 175 or better," Sankey said. "Then we'll move that to 150 or better in the future."

bobinator
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There would be 172 eligible teams this season, and five major conference teams (interestingly one from each conference) would fall below the cutoff: TCU, Virginia Tech, Washington State, Mississippi State, Rutgers,
greg.w.h
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I think P5 with 200 or other schools with 175 or better averaged over the past three years. The funds availability is a proxy for quality even when RPI is drooping and 25 places isn't that horrible to be able to establish home and home series with other P5 conference members.
bobinator
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Well, I did mine from the end of the year, not the selection date, so there could be some minor variation.
bobinator
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quote:
The article from the link above (quoted below) is quite different from the tweet in the OP. This says an opponents's average RPI of 175 or better - not every opponent with an RPI of 175 or better.
quote:
Talking Hoops: The conference's men's basketball coaches had an extensive conversation Tuesday with Sankey and Mike Tranghese, the former Big East commissioner who serves as the Special Advisor to the Commissioner for Men's Basketball in the SEC. Tennessee coach Rick Barnes said the discussion was a helpful big picture conversation necessary for a league that sent just three teams to the NCAA tournament in March.

"There's nobody that knows the lay of the land of college basketball any better than Mike," Barnes said. "Where he's been and what he's done. I just think we all realize there's a perception we need to change and things we need to do to do that. ... He made some great comments today. He understands from a perspective of where we are in terms of changing perception."

One thing the league has to improve to change perception, is to schedule tougher games and win those games. Sankey said a specific expectation has been put in place for non-conference scheduling.

"We use a three-year RPI average at the selection date for the NCAA committee and expect our teams for the coming year to have an opponent's average RPI that is 175 or better," Sankey said. "Then we'll move that to 150 or better in the future."


Well that certainly changes things then, and obviously makes a lot more sense.
JJxvi
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quote:
Do we know how many schools we can choose from given it is a three year rolling average of 175? Does that increase or decrease the number of schools that meet the standard? Presumably the conference has researched this. I doubt they just pulled 175 out of the air.
It can be more or greater depending on random variation because 175 is also roughly the median RPI since there are 351 D1 schools.

If it was top 200, there would likely generally be more than 200 available teams, and if it were 125, there would likely generally be less than 125 available teams.
agsalaska
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Yep. I figure Hops suggestion was actually reality. It appears to be.
LeFraud
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quote:
I don't have a problem w having a minimum standard for the league, but not this one. Sometimes a team will need to schedule a 175+ opponent for timing purposes to make the schedule work. Like last year for A&M, they needed to schedule four quick games before the Bahamas. The standard should be an overall OOC RPI minimum, not a single game minimum. This takes a lot of flexibility out of OOC scheduling.

They wanted to schedule four quick games, they didn't need too
Chuck Gay
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Our schedule to start last year was in the best interest of our basketball program and the entire SEC. I doubt the conference will ever mandate anything other than an average.
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