Okay fine, how many teams that we would compare ourselves to around the country are in better shape in the front court?

quote:

---

quote:

---

I don't see how you can look at our post position (...) and think "yeah, we will be fine there."

---

My counter would be, what team do you look at around the conference and think they're in a better situation in the front court than we are?

Tyler Davis is probably the best returning big man in the league (though Kingsley might come back) and Trocha was making some big strides by the end of the year.

---

You're probably right. For me, the concerns I have down low are amplified by the concerns I also have on the wing. Honestly, I think right now we are more fragile and "worse" at the guard position than the post position due to lack of depth and experience (although the talent is there).

I'm harping on the post more, however, because I personally believe that the addition of one graduate post player (doesn't have to be tall, but a big body like the kid from Az State) would do a lot more for solidifying our roster for next year than a transfer/new body at the wing position. I am a bit surprised to read that update from Logan and not see any mention of a SG-type player that will provide depth for the future, because going forward over the next few years there is certainly a need at the 2/3 position (I'm not nearly as sold on Eubanks as some people, he seems to me like the classic type of player than Kennedy washes out after a year or two, before he can really show us anything, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed).

I would think that Hogg will play some at the 4, especially when Davis is in the game. If Hogg can put on some weight and strength over the summer we may see him at the 4 quite a bit.

Back to the posts, I am glad he doesn't need to start, but I don't see any reason why Robert Williams couldn't be as good as Jamel McKay or khadeem lattin if we needed him to play that role next year.

To which you might say; yeah but we don't have buddy hield or Georges niang. To which I would say;

1 and they didn't have Tyler Davis
2 our success will be determined by the big four anyway. If we are successfully it is because they step up and play at an all conference level. If we aren't it is because they don't. We aren't going to look back and say our failure was due to a lack of another plodder.

Could be, but I certainly hope not. I like JJ's tape better than the other three in terms of athleticism, court vision, and quickness. Branch lacked the physicality needed as a true freshman and left so soon we didn't get to see what he had, Robinson lacked the attitude but showed promise, and Reese showed promise as well.

Maybe I'm chugging too much maroon koolaid but JJ seems to have the most college-ready game of the bunch.

quote:

---

Okay fine, how many teams that we would compare ourselves to around the country are in better shape in the front court?

---

I won't act like I know the ins-and-outs of every other roster in the nation. And no team jumps out as a great returning front court. I do know I'd take Tyler over any returning post in the nation. He alone makes our top end potential extremely high. Beyond that, I think it's fair to be concerned about how the front court plays out.

Trocha was a great rotation player, but it's reasonable to wonder how he handles being the guy all season long at the 4. Is it fair to expect 26-28 mpg of high level production from him?

I love Tavario's effort, but can we get away with more than 10-12 minutes from him each night if his offensive game doesn't improve?

Robert Williams looks gifted athletically, but post players tend to take time to find their game in college.

Even Tyler has serious condition/foot concerns that will need to be resolved.

There's a massive gulf of production between Khadeem Lattin and Jameel McKay. McKay almost averaged a double double...

Anyway, that aside, I think we're in good shape in the front court. I fully expect Hogg to eat up some of the minutes at the 4 that Jones did.

The concern was, is, and seemingly always will be whether or not anyone on our team can handle the ball and score when the other team presses us. And I don't just mean full court press, but when they really get physical in man to man defense and start overplaying.

quote:

---

I would think that Hogg will play some at the 4, especially when Davis is in the game. If Hogg can put on some weight and strength over the summer we may see him at the 4 quite a bit.

---

Agree that he will play the 4, similar to this past year. But then the question is, who provides backup at the 3?

Eubanks? It's not like our positions are really all that important offensively anyway except center.

quote:

---

Back to the posts, I am glad he doesn't need to start, but I don't see any reason why Robert Williams couldn't be as good as Jamel McKay or khadeem lattin if we needed him to play that role next year.

---

Khadeem Lattin was pretty meh as a freshman. Much better as a sophomore.

And McKay was an elite player last year. Would be crazy to expect anything close from Williams next year.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Back to the posts, I am glad he doesn't need to start, but I don't see any reason why Robert Williams couldn't be as good as Jamel McKay or khadeem lattin if we needed him to play that role next year.

---

Khadeem Lattin was pretty meh as a freshman. Much better as a sophomore.

And McKay was an elite player last year. Would be crazy to expect anything close from Williams next year.

---

I expect Williams to be the same quality of player at the four as Hogg was at the three this year. That being a decent to pretty good college player with high upside.

Guys, half of our season is versus the SEC.

Other than Kentucky, who is going to have a better front-court than Trocha/Davis/Miller/Williams? Plus maybe 6'9" spanish kid Eric Vila who at least will be another body on the bench even if not ready for prime time as a fish.

Davis may very well finish with first or second team all-conference honors if he continues on his current arc. He is going to be a matchup problem for most other SEC teams. And Trocha was really starting to break out again at the end of last year. With increased minutes next season, won't surprise me if he has a solid season. Meanwhile Miller is what he is - an experienced hustle guy who can chip in at spots and then you have a top-50 4-star recruit in Williams who is very athletic and has plastic man arms with a 7'4" wingspan.

We are in good shape in the frontcourt IMO.

The biggest hole in our roster, IMO, is lack of an experienced lead guard. That seems by far the biggest roster question mark. If we just had a solid returning junior or senior PG right now, I'd be totally fine with our current roster. There are plenty of good pieces at the 2-5 positions.

quote:

---

Eubanks? It's not like our positions are really all that important offensively anyway except center.

---

If Eubanks lives up to the recruiting hype, then that's great. Just a big question mark at a lot of spots in the 2-deep rotation. And most of the answers are predicated on huge minute jumps across the board

Tyler 28 mpg instead of 20
Admon 30 instead of 20
Hogg 30 instead of 20
Tonny 28 instead of 16
Eubanks 15-20 instead 1

It's the result of graduating over half of all minutes played, and 1/2 the guys expected to fill in didn't play any meaningful minutes last year, or weren't even on the roster. If all the returning guys make the gains you reasonably expect, and all the newcomers can contribute Day 1, then everything is fine.

quote:

---

Guys, half of our season is versus the SEC.

Other than Kentucky, who is going to have a better front-court than Trocha/Davis/Miller/Williams? Plus maybe 6'9" spanish kid Eric Vila.

Davis may very well finish with first or second team all-conference honors if he continues on his current arc. He is going to be a matchup problem for most other SEC teams. And Trocha was really starting to break out again at the end of last year. With increased minutes next season, won't surprise me if he has a solid season. Meanwhile Miller is what he is - an experienced hustle guy who can chip in at spots and then you have a top-50 4-star recruit in Williams who is very athletic and has plastic man arms with a 7'4" wingspan.

We are in good shape in the frontcourt IMO.

The biggest hole in our roster, IMO, is lack of an experienced lead guard. If we just had a solid returning junior or senior PG right now, I'd be totally fine with our current roster. There are plenty of good pieces at the 2-5 positions.

---

Agree that the front court is in better shape than the backcourt. But catastrophic injury potential and/or foul trouble expectations would be higher for the front court, and we don't really have much room for either.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Guys, half of our season is versus the SEC.

Other than Kentucky, who is going to have a better front-court than Trocha/Davis/Miller/Williams? Plus maybe 6'9" spanish kid Eric Vila.

Davis may very well finish with first or second team all-conference honors if he continues on his current arc. He is going to be a matchup problem for most other SEC teams. And Trocha was really starting to break out again at the end of last year. With increased minutes next season, won't surprise me if he has a solid season. Meanwhile Miller is what he is - an experienced hustle guy who can chip in at spots and then you have a top-50 4-star recruit in Williams who is very athletic and has plastic man arms with a 7'4" wingspan.

We are in good shape in the frontcourt IMO.

The biggest hole in our roster, IMO, is lack of an experienced lead guard. If we just had a solid returning junior or senior PG right now, I'd be totally fine with our current roster. There are plenty of good pieces at the 2-5 positions.

---

Agree that the front court is in better shape than the backcourt. But catastrophic injury potential and/or foul trouble expectations would be higher for the front court, and we don't really have much room for either.

---

Well yeah, catastrophic injury will sink most teams. In today's college game, you often don't have really good players willing to sit on the bench so most teams suffer a ton if they lose their best big.

No doubt we were much deeper and more experienced last year but we were also an elite top-20 level team last season. I don't think anybody is expecting us to be as good as last year, are they? We just think we still have a decent shot to be an NCAA team. There are plenty enough pieces in place to make the tourney.

In terms of foul trouble, wac you got the statistics handy, did either Davis or Trocha show much tendency for foul trouble? I don't recall either being a consistent foul magnet. Sure they got into foul trouble here and there but not a ton. Now Miller on the other hand....

Well that's the problem with this one year strategy of rosters in college hoops is that basically anyone who isn't a blue blood team is going to have issues if they have injuries or foul trouble.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Eubanks? It's not like our positions are really all that important offensively anyway except center.

---

If Eubanks lives up to the recruiting hype, then that's great. Just a big question mark at a lot of spots in the 2-deep rotation. And most of the answers are predicated on huge minute jumps across the board

Tyler 28 mpg instead of 20
Admon 30 instead of 20
Hogg 30 instead of 20
Tonny 28 instead of 16
Eubanks 15-20 instead 1

It's the result of graduating over half of all minutes played, and 1/2 the guys expected to fill in didn't play any meaningful minutes last year, or weren't even on the roster. If all the returning guys make the gains you reasonably expect, and all the newcomers can contribute Day 1, then everything is fine.

---

When you intentionally put together a team with four seniors though, that's what's going to happen.

quote:

---

Well that's the problem with this one year strategy of rosters in college hoops is that basically anyone who isn't a blue blood team is going to have issues if they have injuries or foul trouble.

---

Last year we obviously were able to overcome injuries and MIA people because we had a far deeper team than normal.

Elijah Thomas transfers...eh, no problem, still won SEC and Sweet Sixteen.

House flies home morning before game @Miss State...it was ugly but we were still able to get a win.

Had to sit out Davis vs Mizzou. Still won.

And so forth.

But people judging next season's team vs. last year's are always going to find things lacking/wanting. Look, last year's team was arguably either the best or second best team we have had in 30 years. 28-9, SEC champion, Sweet Sixteen. It was loaded with talented seniors and lots of depth.

Next year's team probably won't be as good as last years. They still can be an NCAA team though and finish top-4 in the SEC conference IMO. What they seem to mostly be missing (I think) is a decent grad transfer lead guard. Add that piece, hire a good assistant, and throw in the Vila kid just for grins and I'm good. I think they should have a decent chance to make tourney again.

Yeah, that's the big thing people keep missing. We're not going to be as good next year as we were this year. And that's okay.

But we should be good enough to be a tournament team, which is the second thing people forget a lot. You don't have to be all that good to make the tournament.

quote:

---

When you intentionally put together a team with four seniors though, that's what's going to happen.

---

Definitely. And fortunately, we have 4 guys that averaged ~22mpg on a Sweet 16 run returning. So outside of PG, we are depending on huge jumps from guys that have shown something, instead of a huge group of freshmen.

quote:

---

Well yeah, catastrophic injury will sink most teams. In today's college game, you often don't have really good players willing to sit on the bench so most teams suffer a ton if they lose their best big.

---

I'm not just talking about Tyler. I'm not 100% confident we could deal with an injury to Tonny or even Tavario/Williams. I don't expect us to have equal caliber talent sitting on the bench in case of injury. But we don't even have extra bodies to throw at potential problems.

quote:

---

quote:

---

When you intentionally put together a team with four seniors though, that's what's going to happen.

---

Definitely. And fortunately, we have 4 guys that averaged ~22mpg on a Sweet 16 run returning. So outside of PG, we are depending on huge jumps from guys that have shown something, instead of a huge group of freshmen.

---

I think we should feel 'reasonably' good about Gilder, Trocha, Davis, and Hogg. They have been vetted and shown enough that we can see good players there. And we pretty much know who/what Tavario Miller is.

Eubanks, Caldwell, and Williams are TBD...now all 3 of those guys were 4-star Top-100 national recruits out of high school, and Eubanks is going to be 21 years old (he was class of '14 high school) because of his long winding road to get cleared...so maybe that will be a plus in that regard.

Need. Grad. Transfer. Lead. Guard. Though. Totally agree with everybody's comments that just counting on Caldwell/Gilder to run PG seems just waaaaay too iffy.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Well yeah, catastrophic injury will sink most teams. In today's college game, you often don't have really good players willing to sit on the bench so most teams suffer a ton if they lose their best big.

---

I'm not just talking about Tyler. I'm not 100% confident we could deal with an injury to Tonny or even Tavario/Williams. I don't expect us to have equal caliber talent sitting on the bench in case of injury. But we don't even have extra bodies to throw at potential problems.

---

If Tyler had gotten hurt last season, I don't think we win the SEC. So, yeah, totally agree that a major injury to Davis would probably be devastating. He is a unique asset in the post.

quote:

---

In terms of foul trouble, wac you got the statistics handy, did either Davis or Trocha show much tendency for foul trouble? I don't recall either being a consistent foul magnet. Sure they got into foul trouble here and there but not a ton. Now Miller on the other hand....

---

Tyler and Tonny had relatively normal foul rates (4.6 and 4.2 per 40 minutes, respectively). Tavario, for reference, was almost 50% higher at 6.8 per 40.

I bring up foul trouble because it's seems much more common for bigs to get into foul trouble through normal basketball play. There's not a stat that tracks time missed due to foul trouble, but it's reasonable to expect Tyler will have more than a few games where he picks up 2 quick fouls. Our roster last year was deep and versatile, so that really wasn't a huge problem for us. But now with the 1-4 positions likely to take a step back, can we absorb 10 minutes of inferior post play as well?

quote:

---

Yeah, that's the big thing people keep missing. We're not going to be as good next year as we were this year. And that's okay.

---

No one that is paying attention thinks we'll be the same caliber team next year.

I prefer Hogg at the 4 and to do that he needs to build strength and weight and work some more on both using his body to post up and on developing a runner or fade away.

He and Tonny can be stretch 4s or extra tall SFs though asking Tonny to guard a guard--even on a switch--is a too tall order. But neither is likely to do well on a true 4 either without more S&C and development. I think that's why we saw Tonny at high post so much and also explains why he developed and coaches let him shoot the 3: to truly stretch the floor and attempt to empty the key.

Yeah, but in these threads when we're comparing minutes and who's playing where and stuff like that it seems to get glossed over that compared to this year we're obviously going to have some holes because we simply aren't going to be as good.

quote:

---

Yeah, but in these threads when we're comparing minutes and who's playing where and stuff like that it seems to get glossed over that compared to this year we're obviously going to have some holes because we simply aren't going to be as good.

---

i think minute allocation/roster management is a different discussion from overall success expectations.

I agree that if we hold next year's roster to the standard set by this past year's team, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. I think most here don't have outrageous expecations - just get to the tournament and give yourself a chance at a decent run.

quote:

---

I prefer Hogg at the 4 and to do that he needs to build strength and weight and work some more on both using his body to post up and on developing a runner or fade away.

He and Tonny can be stretch 4s or extra tall SFs though asking Tonny to guard a guard--even on a switch--is a too tall order. But neither is likely to do well on a true 4 either without more S&C and development. I think that's why we saw Tonny at high post so much and also explains why he developed and coaches let him shoot the 3: to truly stretch the floor and attempt to empty the key.

---

Hogg seems like a prototypical 3. I get that it's advantageous to put him at the 4 in certain situations, but why would you prefer him to play at a different position?

I guess my point is that we're only in "questionable shape" when you compare us to a team like we had last year, most of the teams in our league and around the country would probably swap rosters with us without blinking.

quote:

---

I guess my point is that we're only in "questionable shape" when you compare us to a team like we had last year, most of the teams in our league and around the country would probably swap rosters with us without blinking.

---

Agree. So does that mean we should have top-3 in SEC and top-25 nationally expectations?

quote:

---

Hogg seems like a prototypical 3. I get that it's advantageous to put him at the 4 in certain situations, but why would you prefer him to play at a different position?

---

I agree with this completely. As it stands now, we're also deeper in the post so it makes sense to have all of his minutes at the three.

quote:

---

quote:

---

I guess my point is that we're only in "questionable shape" when you compare us to a team like we had last year, most of the teams in our league and around the country would probably swap rosters with us without blinking.

---

Agree. So does that mean we should have top-3 in SEC and top-25 nationally expectations?

---

I have top 4 in the SEC and top 35 nationally expectations.

quote:

---

Hogg seems like a prototypical 3. I get that it's advantageous to put him at the 4 in certain situations, but why would you prefer him to play at a different position?

---

I don't think I'd put him there all the time, but I could see him playing extended minutes there especially against smaller teams.

quote:

---

Agree. So does that mean we should have top-3 in SEC and top-25 nationally expectations?

---

I think we should be top 30-ish. And yeah, until someone else in the SEC actually proves they're worth half a crap, why not top 3?