Leather Tuscadero said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Bruce Almighty touched on it. The boneless skinless chicken breast you get it stores have you gotten way too big. Even butterflied, they tend to suck. I usually buy the whole organic chicken breasts and debone them myself. That will get you much closer to the 6oz size they serve in restaurants

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Even the heb organic fresh ones suck now.

We finally gave in and just started raising our own. Our local processor will clean and package our birds for $5 each. No mess no fuss.

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Must not be a hunter. $5 to clean and package seems like highway robbery to me but I understand not wanting to do that yourself if you're not used to such things.

And that is high for pork is my point, as is 165 too high for chicken.

yea, hunters never use processors.

RK said:

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yea, hunters never use processors.

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I get your point but cleaning and processing a few chickens is a lot different than cleaning and processing an entire deer where you need to understand some anatomy, might need saws, are grinding and making sausage, etc.

Simple pluck, gut and rinse of a chicken is like 10 min worth of work at best.

You are correct. 145 degrees for pork and 165 for chicken.

I don't believe the FDA Food Code says to cook to 145 for pork or 165 for chicken and then pull. As long as the internal hits that number one can easily pull it a few degrees below that number, and let the residual heat take it to the required temperature.

Me personally....I pull pork at 130-135 and chicken at 160.

schmendeler said:

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lazuras_dc said:

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Yeah pulling at 155 has been key for me. Someone with meat science background can correct me if I'm wrong but I figure most of the bad bugs are going to be on the exterior of the meat which will be well at 165 if the internal is 155 plus you'll get some carry over.

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Pasteurization is a combination of temperature AND time. At 160 degrees, it occurs virtually instantaneously. At 155, it's like 20 seconds to achieve the same reduction in pathogens.

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https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/bf3f01a1-a0b7-4902-a2df-a87c73d1b633/Salmonella-Compliance-Guideline-SVSP-RTE-Appendix-A.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Cook time/temp tables are starting on Pg 33 of the PDF

OP,

It's almost impossible to compare the juiciness of a chicken breast you've had at a chain restaurant to the juiciness of a regular chicken breast you cook at home.

I would venture to say that 95% of all chain restaurants (fast food and casual dining) are getting chicken that has been marinated in a brine containing sodium phosphate (or some combination of other ingredients used to achieve results similar to those achieved with phosphate).

Sodium phosphate is one of the most important ingredients in value added meat processing. It can simultaneously improve yield (profitability) for the processor while also improving the eating quality for the consumer.

It's is almost impossible to re-create the benefits of sodium phosphate because it literally uses chemistry to help improve the texture and moisture retention of the muscle.

However, as many others have suggested here, overcooking chicken breast is one of the most common issues when cooking at home. Investing in a decent meat thermometer will help you hit the target temp without going over and drying it out.

tsuag10 said:

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OP,

It's almost impossible to compare the juiciness of a chicken breast you've had at a chain restaurant to the juiciness of a regular chicken breast you cook at home.

I would venture to say that 95% of all chain restaurants (fast food and casual dining) are getting chicken that has been marinated in a brine containing sodium phosphate (or some combination of other ingredients used to achieve results similar to those achieved with phosphate).

Sodium phosphate is one of the most important ingredients in value added meat processing. It can simultaneously improve yield (profitability) for the processor while also improving the eating quality for the consumer.

It's is almost impossible to re-create the benefits of sodium phosphate because it literally uses chemistry to help improve the texture and moisture retention of the muscle.

However, as many others have suggested here, overcooking chicken breast is one of the most common issues when cooking at home. Investing in a decent meat thermometer will help you hit the target temp without going over and drying it out.

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I completely disagree with all of this only because I think I cook a better/juicier skinless/boneless chicken breast than any I've ever had in a restaurant. And I can do it hella consistently.

You might do a great job, but there is a lot of peer reviewed research that shows the benefits of using sodium phosphate. It's not really debatable. It's like telling me that you can cook a Select grade ribeye that eats as good as a Prime grade ribeye. I wouldn't call you a liar, but I would tell you that your results are in direct conflict with a mountain of data on the subject.


OP mentioned Whataburger. Almost all fast food restaurants are using chicken that is brined with phosphate. A decent portion of the casual dining chains are doing the same. Some of the upper end chains (think maybe Saltgrass, etc.) may not be using phosphate, but I'm not sure.

I think it's awesome if you can cook really juicy chicken breasts at home. I am just providing information/context for why the OP might have trouble achieving the same results.

honestly, I don't think I get a perfectly cooked chicken breast at a restaurant all that often.. maybe 1/3 of the time.

Don't know if it's crap in/crap out, or they just overcooked it.. but there is a lot of dry chicken out in the world. Even at higher end restaurants I've had dry chicken.

tsuag10 said:

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You might do a great job, but there is a lot of peer reviewed research that shows the benefits of using sodium phosphate. It's not really debatable. It's like telling me that you can cook a Select grade ribeye that eats as good as a Prime grade ribeye. I wouldn't call you a liar, but I would tell you that your results are in direct conflict with a mountain of data on the subject.


OP mentioned Whataburger. Almost all fast food restaurants are using chicken that is brined with phosphate. A decent portion of the casual dining chains are doing the same. Some of the upper end chains (think maybe Saltgrass, etc.) may not be using phosphate, but I'm not sure.

I think it's awesome if you can cook really juicy chicken breasts at home. I am just providing information/context for why the OP might have trouble achieving the same results.

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I wish I could read some of the numbers on this. I'm inclined to agree with the poster above about cooking chicken at home remarkably well and consistently. I mean a sous vide is idiot proof for perfect chicken, but I regularly roast whole spatchcocked birds with stellar results.

Perhaps the numbers in those studies do show better quality in the phosphate treated birds but the question is how much better? Is it tangible or just statistical?

i think "better" is subjective. the grilled chicken at whataburger has a clearly processed texture to it. it's weirdly tight, like it's been pumped with so much moisture it's going to pop.

i don't consider that to be the "best". even chick fila's chicken has a different texture relative to store bought chicken due to the brine they put it in.

kenji lopez-alt talks about trying to replicate it in his recipe for "better than chick fila chicken sandwiches" recipe.

I'll try to link to some papers when I get a chance.

The difference in cooking methods is a separate discussion. I'm just referring to phosphate vs no phosphate if they are cooked using identical methods.

Would we notice a difference if we compared phos vs no phos cooked using sous vide? Maybe not.

Would we notice a difference if we compared phos vs no phos cooked on a flat top grill? Highly likely.

The reason commercial meat processors and large restaurant chains use phosphate in chicken breast (and many other lean/dry cuts of meat) is to increase yields and create a more consistent product for the consumers every time. They want a kid on his first day at Whataburger to be able to cook an acceptable product even when he overcooks it a little. It's like insurance.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283385948_Effect_of_Salt_and_Phosphates_During_Tumbling_of_Turkey_Breast_Muscle_on_Meat_Characteristics/fulltext/5f5ae7334585154dbbc8792a/Effect-of-Salt-and-Phosphates-During-Tumbling-of-Turkey-Breast-Muscle-on-Meat-Characteristics.pdf?origin=publication_detail

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1056617119316022

*The first link is for an actual research paper. The 2nd link is for a conference proceedings paper (Alvarado is a former TAMU Poultry Science prof.).
Honestly I'm having a tough time finding some good papers due to not having full access to academic articles like I did in grad school.

It's a chicken breast. If you need a thermometer to
tell you when it's done-you're not very good.

Keep using your thermometer. You probably use it on a steak

Don't have one and haven't tried it, but guy at work claims that cooking chicken breast with Sous Vide is outstanding. Says he won't do it any other way.

Bruce Almighty said:

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lol on meat thermometer flexing.

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In my back yard we never use thermometers when making chicken fajitas. Mine are better than those at ::insert random teetery:: and I got the recipe from James Coney Island.