Hazing incident

5,175 Views | 22 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by Aggie1
HillCountry15
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https://www.kbtx.com/2023/12/12/lawsuit-alleges-degrading-humiliating-hazing-acts-within-am-corps-cadets/

Just saw this on the GB, figured I'd post here. What happened to the good ole smoking/crap out session?!
OldArmyCT
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AG
If the school/Trigon knew about this and the perps are still in school then there is more to the story. Never take a newspaper article at face value.
TheGreatEscape
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They need Christ and his moderation.

Also, I'm not sure that the breaking down part of the military tradition is the best thing to implement at the university leve.

Educate me, please? Does the Corps have a merit system like West Point?

Is there a three strike rule and we kick you out rule?

What other ways does the Corps of Cadets implement discipline in order to conform to combat order and mentality for future service?
CharlieBrown17
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AG
OldArmyCT said:

If the school/Trigon knew about this and the perps are still in school then there is more to the story. Never take a newspaper article at face value.


I didn't see anything in the article to say if they're still in school or not.


Beginning says all 10 were members of the Corps at the time of the incident and the lawsuit was a different county because someone resides there now.

Also mentions that there was a conduct investigation with no yes/no on what happened.
HillCountry15
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TheGreatEscape said:

They need Christ and his moderation.

Also, I'm not sure that the breaking down part of the military tradition is the best thing to implement at the university leve.

Educate me, please? Does the Corps have a merit system like West Point?

Is there a three strike rule and we kick you out rule?

What other ways does the Corps of Cadets implement discipline in order to conform to combat order and mentality for future service?
When I was there (2011-2015) we had a merit system, cadet review board, etc. Not exactly sure how the cadet review board worked (never had to stand before one), but did have a few buddies kicked out of the corps for various reasons.
AggieBaseball06
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AG
OldArmyCT said:

If the school/Trigon knew about this and the perps are still in school then there is more to the story. Never take a newspaper article at face value.


According to a few posters on Reddit, everyone involved was kicked out of the Corps and a couple were even expelled. K-2s leadership basically went through a complete overhaul as a result.

Edit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/aggies/comments/18hpbxn/10_texas_am_corps_cadets_face_1m_lawsuit_from/

https://www.reddit.com/r/aggies/comments/18gd0u0/wtf/

A comment from the 2nd thread from a current Senior:

"Thankfully none of these guys are still around

I've never seen higher powers move faster on a case than this one"
CharlieBrown17
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AG
Hope it wasn't K-2. Always had a lot of good friends in K-2 and wouldn't hate to see them to get integrated.
HillCountry15
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CharlieBrown17 said:

Hope it wasn't K-2. Always had a lot of good friends in K-2 and wouldn't hate to see them to get integrated.
Yup. I was shocked when I was in that there were still all male outfits. Shocked that there are still some around today.
Get Off My Lawn
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So the allegation is 2 significant parts:
1. that someone stripped naked and humped (then bear hugged) him
2. that the group stripped him, duct taped him to a pole they hung between beds, forced an apple into his mouth, and closed his nose (roast pig)

The lawyer is clearly trying to milk the allegation ($1M, a Dallas -attempted- venue, and maximized-framing of other benign elements) but if the allegations are legit - I don't see anyone excusing that type of gross misconduct.
CharlieBrown17
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AG
K-2 and C-2 were really solid outfits during my time. I don't see a reason there can't be all males, but it hurts the cause when stuff like this (allegedly) happens
HillCountry15
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CharlieBrown17 said:

K-2 and C-2 were really solid outfits during my time. I don't see a reason there can't be all males, but it hurts the cause when stuff like this (allegedly) happens
I agree. Have a buddy and a cousin that we're both in C-2. Really good dudes
TheGreatEscape
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Thank you, HillCountry.
TheGreatEscape
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My next question is whether or not hazing is what cadets do at our country's military academies?
CT'97
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TheGreatEscape said:

They need Christ and his moderation.

Also, I'm not sure that the breaking down part of the military tradition is the best thing to implement at the university leve.

Educate me, please? Does the Corps have a merit system like West Point?

Is there a three strike rule and we kick you out rule?

What other ways does the Corps of Cadets implement discipline in order to conform to combat order and mentality for future service?
Just to be clear there is nothing that was done in this incident that remotely reflects anything of military tradition. It's not taught to the cadets that way.

Nobody at A&M is being told to break cadets down via any system. The freshman cadets are made to do a lot of things but none of that is intended to break them down. That is something that happens at basic training, but it's conducted by trainers, non-commissioned officers usually, who have been through school to learn how to do it and who are following a specific training schedule.

What you see in this article has no place in the Corps at A&M or in the military.

Quote:

My next question is whether or not hazing is what cadets do at our country's military academies?
Unfortunately, yes our military academies have had trouble with hazing unfortunately sometimes even resulting in the deaths of cadets/midshipmen.

I think this has a lot to do with people wanting to build their self worth by making others prove their willingness to join or be a part of their organization. This puts value on their organization because look what people will do to simply join us. So what starts as a simple initiation ceremony or task gets stepped up by the next class who want to make it harder to be a part of their organization and thus increase their self worth. Then decades later people are doing things so far beyond what the initiators of the ceremony intended that it's not even recognizable as the same ceremony any more.
Get Off My Lawn
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TheGreatEscape said:

My next question is whether or not hazing is what cadets do at our country's military academies?
Theres "hazing" and then there's HAZING.

Put through a hardship or random stressor which isnt part of a command approved training schedule = "hazing"

Being sexually assaulted = HAZING.
CharlieBrown17
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AG
The academies get less leadership training than the Corps.

There's NCOs and Officers running the show there and the cadets are just part of the game, because of this they are also way more limited on what they're allowed to do training wise than the Corps.

The academies have their benefits, but there's no reason to ask what they're doing compared to the Corps. They're different beasts and both provide a quality product in different ways.
Get Off My Lawn
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CharlieBrown17 said:

The academies get less leadership training than the Corps.

There's NCOs and Officers running the show there and the cadets are just part of the game, because of this they are also way more limited on what they're allowed to do training wise than the Corps.

The academies have their benefits, but there's no reason to ask what they're doing compared to the Corps. They're different beasts and both provide a quality product in different ways.
Having rubbed shoulders with quite a few Naval Academy guys… the academies clearly underperform when you consider their applicant base.

The few academy rockstars I crossed paths with were going to be rockstars regardless where they went, while the average grad just hadn't been given nearly as much room to develop (I.e. make mistakes) despite being heavily resourced and poured into.
TheGreatEscape
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It's not just alcohol hazing that goes on…

I spent a year in sober living with an Ag who spent all four years in the Corps. He didn't want to try to be commissioned or enter the military. He said that it left a bitter taste in his mouth. He is a good man. He couldn't stand the hazing.

Short story. We took a trip up to Oklahoma for a retreat with our sober home people.

We threw the football around in the lake. His Aggie ring came off into the lake when he threw the football. He was devastated. And I felt for him.
So we were made to leave. And I was determined to try to hunt for it. We went to the dollar store and bought some cheap goggles. Everyone said that there was no way we were going to find the silly Aggie ring. "Why does it mean that much?" And I just told them that they just would never understand. So myself, my Aggie friend, and another were given a ride back to the lake. After about 30 minutes, I created diving system of my own. I saw the gold shine and you cannot believe the joy I felt when I came up out of the water with the ring to see my Aggie brother's face!
I shouted in joy. Hallelujah! It was awesome that everyone could not believe that I had found the ring when the other two with me had already quit and were on the shore. Aggie fight never dies…

Anyway, I'm just sharing that story because whatever you all decide on hazing is not for me to have any final say or anything.
I look up to Aggies everywhere, especially the Corps of Cadets because they are the keepers of the school spirit.
God bless.


Edited for grammar.
Pro Sandy
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AG
Get Off My Lawn said:

CharlieBrown17 said:

The academies get less leadership training than the Corps.

There's NCOs and Officers running the show there and the cadets are just part of the game, because of this they are also way more limited on what they're allowed to do training wise than the Corps.

The academies have their benefits, but there's no reason to ask what they're doing compared to the Corps. They're different beasts and both provide a quality product in different ways.
Having rubbed shoulders with quite a few Naval Academy guys… the academies clearly underperform when you consider their applicant base.

The few academy rockstars I crossed paths with were going to be rockstars regardless where they went, while the average grad just hadn't been given nearly as much room to develop (I.e. make mistakes) despite being heavily resourced and poured into.
OCS is where the superior officers are made. We do in 3 months what it takes cadets 4 years. Leadership training? Pfft! Underwear folding is what truly matters.
sharpdressedman
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I attended a social event at which several Aggies were present, and this incident became part of our conversation. I knew only what I had read on this forum and in one newspaper article, so I had little to contribute, other than my disdain and disappointment regarding the incident. Never in my corps experience, albeit it decades ago, did I ever witness or even hear about a situation as ugly as this one.

How the incident was initially reported to A&M authorities was a point of serious disagreement among two Ags in the conversation. One claimed that a single cadet, not the aggrieved person, reported the incident, and another said it was made public inadvertently through boastful comments made by the perpetrators to persons outside the outfit and the corps.

Can anyone confirm or refute either of these conflicting claims, without revealing any identities or otherwise personally indicative information?

My interest is only in knowing if the incident was quickly and appropriately reported.

Thanks in advance.
bigtruckguy3500
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sharpdressedman said:


How the incident was initially reported to A&M authorities was a point of serious disagreement among two Ags in the conversation. One claimed that a single cadet, not the aggrieved person, reported the incident, and another said it was made public inadvertently through boastful comments made by the perpetrators to persons outside the outfit and the corps.

I don't know the answer to this, but two points that I am not sure if is lost to the two Ags that told you this.

1) Even if the victim did not report this, it doesn't change the fact that it was inappropriate and should never have happened. Just because the victim was willing to tolerate it, doesn't mean those that perpetrated it should have gotten off scot free.
2) The fact that the perpetrators were boasting about this to anyone is even worse, especially to someone outside of the Corps.
sharpdressedman
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I agree with both points you make. Perhaps the answer to my question cannot be revealed.
Aggie1
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AG
Whether athletics or fraternities/sorotities, military - initiation rites have been around "forever".
Going too far is in the eye of the beholder.
During my day 1960-61 if a candidate for the corps did not measure up he was driven out - often forcefully! On the other hand I witnessed keepers who could not help their actions and were kept in spite of their frailties.
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