Cracks visible in US defense industry

2,870 Views | 11 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Charles Hickson Knows
CT'97
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AG
Inside the monumental, stop-start effort to arm Ukraine

Quote:

"A conventional war … is an industrial war," said Seth Jones, a former adviser to U.S. Special Forces who now heads the International Security Program at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). There are "serious challenges" to current supplies in the U.S. arsenal, he said. "We are really low … and we're not even fighting."

Quote:


An upcoming CSIS report on American readiness, Jones said, concludes that "the U.S. defense industrial base is in pretty poor shape right now. If you identify China as the 'pacing' threat, and an 'acute' threat from Russia, we don't make it past four or five days in a war game before we run out of precision missiles."



A shift away from producing munitions to target big ticket items, a lack of production workers and supply chain issues with small components are all showing a major flaw in the US war fighting capacity and it's not going to get fixed easily. Running out of precision munitions in a few days or weeks after starting a major conflict would dramatically change how we fight.

One of the best outcomes from the war in Ukraine may be the US figuring out how to supply a modern fight.
ABATTBQ87
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Now let's look at our strategic reserves, which are at a 40 year historical low:

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_ending_stocks_of_crude_oil_in_the_strategic_petroleum_reserve

We are being set up for failure
La Bamba
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So how do we fix that? Bring supply chains back home, such as is the intent with semiconductors? The article also talks about the contracting strategy not being built for speed and simplicity. Seems like something that can be changed as long as the folks in the White House support quicker manufacturing/production.

I saw a video that argued the monopolization of US Defense contractors within the last 20-30 years (from 20+ smaller firms to just Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman) has made the industry sluggish.
CT'97
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ABATTBQ87 said:

Now let's look at our strategic reserves, which are at a 40 year historical low:

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_ending_stocks_of_crude_oil_in_the_strategic_petroleum_reserve

We are being set up for failure

I don't think we are set up for failure but definitely learning lessons with other countries soldiers blood.

The crude reserves can be replaced very quickly.
Eliminatus
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This was always going to be a problem with our growing level of tech.

We simply can't produce them in the numbers we need for sustained combat due to cost and intricacy of manufacture. We have multiple double digit billion weapons programs that will net us very low hundreds of platforms over a decade. That has always been kinda insane to me. We have been stacking our eggs in the "quality " basket for a generation now and ignoring the fact that in an actual war you HAVE to have quantity too. Honestly a little frustrating at times and the exact mindset that Nazi Germany had. Wasting untold amounts of resources on Uber weapons and were left with technological wonders that were prone to breakage and in such low numbers it was impossible to depend on actually having any when needed in the places they needed to be in.

And I don't know how active war burn rates on munitions are always underestimated. We are America! We have been fighting since our inception. How do we always get that wrong and are caught flat footed at the start of every conflict?!

Ok, the above statement is a little tongue in cheek but not completely. Again, just frustrating the oodles of cash we have spent on failed programs chasing starfighters and not covering supply stockpiles beyond basic training levels.

As far as current cost of procurement goes, I think we all realize the unbelievable amount of bloat that tacks on more and more to each "unit" of munition we make. That's an admin problem and could be at least alleviated somewhat with some aggressive pruning and new SOPs. And I say that as a defense contractor.

Well, this turned into a mini rant now didn't it…
bigtruckguy3500
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Agreed. There are a lot of industries that are just getting bigger and more bloated, and no one is willing to step up and trim the fat. We obviously need the military industrial complex, but there is so much corruption and padding of contracts, that we're not getting our money's worth. The same goes for other things, like healthcare, and companies that build our infrastructure.

It amazes me that we have been at war for 20 years, spending trillions of dollars, creating tons of jobs in the military industrial complex, in national security, sub-agencies like the TSA, and spending so much money on so many things, and yet our economy hasn't really boomed at all during this time. Comparatively, the US spent 4 trillion on WWII (inflation adjusted) and about 8 trillion in the war on terror. Granted it was over a different time span, but still. Look at what we got for that 4 trillion, and our economy after, and look at what the 8 trillion has gotten us.

Sorry if my post deviates off topic.

The key is going to be someone stepping up and taking some licks politically. It'll be tough, and it'll cost jobs in the short term, but if we can bring more high tech manufacturing jobs back, it'll be beneficial in the long term.
74OA
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On the upside, the war in Ukraine is a wakeup call which highlighted these issues just in time. Imagine if we'd instead waded into a major conflict with China.

Anyway, much of the short-term money for Ukraine is also to backfill donated US munitions/weapons stockpiles. Here's some of what is being done longer-term to revitalize the supporting industry: RELOAD

Our NATO allies are doing much the same: PRODUCTION
Bonus Hole
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Charles Hickson Knows
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"Beware of the military industrial complex."

I think Ike said something to that effect.

Petronazis and the war mongers.. We'd be so much better off without them.
monarch
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S
And I don't know how active war burn rates on munitions are always underestimated. We are America! We have been fighting since our inception. How do we always get that wrong and are caught flat footed at the start of every conflict?!

I have a husband/wife from my wife's side of the family that work in Huntsville Ala for our supply partners. The wife is a logistical manager and is in charge of getting things moved around the world for our needs and requirements. The hubby is on the financial end of the industry- cost evaluations, sourcing, etc, etc, etc. Both are long time employees in this industry with their prime responsibility of keeping our supply chains and our weapons systems in the best and most active state they can be to keep the production flow of material moving. They will agree 100% that all the crap we are going through right now started to slide downhill when Barry Boy got into office. All the agreements with the Chinese government where we kissed their arse by giving them info that we developed in return for nothing for promises that havent been kept was what really started the slide downhill. The big fear by those who watch this stuff is that we are getting closer and closer to having to defend Taiwan while are are draining our own defense and military systems feeding The Ukaine War. We have the best quality weapons in the world and will give anybody a good fight---for a short time, at which point we will get crushed. At the rate we are shipping stuff to other people right now and the rate we arent replacing anything is a big problem that will bite us in the ass real soon. A woke military? We wont even have one that can defend us sooner than you think.
Peace for Ukraine!
BBRex
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bigtruckguy3500 said:

Agreed. There are a lot of industries that are just getting bigger and more bloated, and no one is willing to step up and trim the fat. We obviously need the military industrial complex, but there is so much corruption and padding of contracts, that we're not getting our money's worth. The same goes for other things, like healthcare, and companies that build our infrastructure.

It amazes me that we have been at war for 20 years, spending trillions of dollars, creating tons of jobs in the military industrial complex, in national security, sub-agencies like the TSA, and spending so much money on so many things, and yet our economy hasn't really boomed at all during this time. Comparatively, the US spent 4 trillion on WWII (inflation adjusted) and about 8 trillion in the war on terror. Granted it was over a different time span, but still. Look at what we got for that 4 trillion, and our economy after, and look at what the 8 trillion has gotten us.

Sorry if my post deviates off topic.

The key is going to be someone stepping up and taking some licks politically. It'll be tough, and it'll cost jobs in the short term, but if we can bring more high tech manufacturing jobs back, it'll be beneficial in the long term.


You have to think about how different the policies around war are now vs. WWII. There isn't much stomach for casualties, ours or theirs. The generals in 1944 would have carpet bombed parts of Iraq and Afghanistan. Our soldiers wouldn't have had rules of engagement. Now we want war to be clean. That requires technology.

Also, the sheer scale of the mobilization for WWII is difficult to imagine now. We sent so many young men to fight that women and older men were called upon to work on assembly lines building tanks and planes. How much shorter would the GWOT have been if the government implemented wartime rationing? People would have been up in arms. It's a much different time.

I do get the concerns about the military-industrial complex, but you don't get the world's best military without the people who dream up and build the weapons.
Charles Hickson Knows
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Our thoughts on the current controlled EXTRATERRESTRIAL reality disclosure process and related US GOV cover-up? Once the uneasy, contagious giggling subsides, how will our civilization and the mislead sheep adapt to this publicly known reality? Are the good Shepherds withholding the truth in our best interest? Perhaps multiple species are involved?
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