Anyone involved in the recruiting world currently? Are things as bad as they seem? I understand to have the need to have a steady stream of incoming recruits to develop up, but why aren't we focusing on better retention? Or are we trying but it's just not working?

Should we lower standards for non-combat MOS nerds? Do we just need to pay better? Let more junior enlisted live out of the barracks?

I will say, it sometimes feels like a lot of the current recruits we're getting are pretty soft. They don't want to deploy, they don't want to be told what to do, and they spend a significant amount of time trying to maximize their VA benefits when they've done nothing but boot camp, their MOS school, and chopped out of their actual job half the time.

We had a men's retreat at church and one of the guys on the trip was a Marine Corps recruiter. He was telling me this most difficult issue that is effecting recruiting is a new method of medical background checks. I can't recall all of the details, but if a young man/woman had ever taken any ADHD meds it was almost impossible to get them in. They would have to be off of the meds for at least a year then would have to get letters from their teachers.

He was injured in combat about 9 years ago and has been able to extend his career in the recruiting field. His opinion that our biggest difficulties in recruiting are created by the politicians putting these crazy restrictions in place. This is the primary reason that all branches are not hitting their numbers.


Edited to say that it wasn't just ADHD meds, it included just about all juvenile meds out there.

OldArmyCT said:

---

I hear fat guys are excluded now. When I was in BCT there were a dozen or so fatsos and by the time graduation rolled around they were skinnier than me.

---

I was over army ht/wt and body fat% when I enlisted. But this was 2006 so as long as I passed the ARMS test by knocking out some push-ups and staying in step with a metronome for 5 minutes I was in. I also came out of basic and AIT thinner than even after my fish year, to the point I looked sick.

I was talking to a senior airmen the other day...he was 320lb , got down to 200lb to join the AF and now backup to 320lbs.

aznaggiegirl07 said:

---

I was talking to a senior airmen the other day...he was 320lb , got down to 200lb to join the AF and now backup to 320lbs.

---

Yeah, see this all the time. Kids lose the weight either before, or during boot camp. Then they get out of boot camp, and no one is telling them to hurry up and get out of the chow hall, and they get to sit around and eat, and eat crappy food from the exchange.

What makes it difficult is that the DoD has contracts with these unhealthy fast food chains.

When I was at Cannon, they got a new Popeyes in on base. Holy crap. So freaking busy for at least a month.

aznaggiegirl07 said:

---

What makes it difficult is that the DoD has contracts with these unhealthy fast food chains.

When I was at Cannon, they got a new Popeyes in on base. Holy crap. So freaking busy for at least a month.

---

Yeah. Also a lot of these kids don't have cars, and the commissary can be miles away on some bases. Their barracks also don't have much in the way of ability to cook. Chow hall food can be healthy, but they often opt for the pizza line instead of the salad line. And many even skip the chow hall, despite already paying for the food, and go for fast food.

It amazed me how much they spend on fast food when they can essentially eat for free.

Will say though, the majority of kids that lose the weight keep it off.

Were you at Cannon as part of the medical there? Or were you part of a human performance program with their equivalent of body composition failure program?

I was the dietitian at their med group, technically a part of the med group but a wing asset as well.. Since Cannon has POTFF ( and AFSOC support with strength coaches, PT and performance dietitian), I mostly saw referrals.

CT'97 said:

---

Outlaw0206 said:

---

bigtruckguy3500 said:

---

I will say, it sometimes feels like a lot of the current recruits we're getting are pretty soft. They don't want to deploy, they don't want to be told what to do, and they spend a significant amount of time trying to maximize their VA benefits when they've done nothing but boot camp, their MOS school, and chopped out of their actual job half the time.

---

I think this goes hand and hand with the generation of kids coming out of HS. Everyone thinks they are owed something and want someone to wipe their A**.

---

I'm not sure what kids coming out of HS you are around, but the one's I'm around aren't this way. Especially those coming from lower economic back grounds. They want to work, they want on opportunity to make themselves better and move up. I really hate using broad brushes to describe entire generations.
It's just no true.

---

Agree. For every lazy, entitled kid there's a hard-working youngster busting his ass to get ahead. Just because kids today have a lot more employment choices in an economy in which employers are desperate for labor doesn't mean they can't hack it in the military. The Services just have to man up and compete harder for quality recruits.

aznaggiegirl07 said:

---

What makes it difficult is that the DoD has contracts with these unhealthy fast food chains.

When I was at Cannon, they got a new Popeyes in on base. Holy crap. So freaking busy for at least a month.

---

Its not just the fast food places that are the problem. The DFACs are not exactly bastions of healthy food options. Yeah, they throw up a salad bar and will have a healthy option in the entree line but what 19yo kid is going to pick one of these when there is pizza, burgers, fried chicken, and a massive desert bar go choose from?

74OA said:

---

CT'97 said:

---

Outlaw0206 said:

---

bigtruckguy3500 said:

---

I will say, it sometimes feels like a lot of the current recruits we're getting are pretty soft. They don't want to deploy, they don't want to be told what to do, and they spend a significant amount of time trying to maximize their VA benefits when they've done nothing but boot camp, their MOS school, and chopped out of their actual job half the time.

---

I think this goes hand and hand with the generation of kids coming out of HS. Everyone thinks they are owed something and want someone to wipe their A**.

---

I'm not sure what kids coming out of HS you are around, but the one's I'm around aren't this way. Especially those coming from lower economic back grounds. They want to work, they want on opportunity to make themselves better and move up. I really hate using broad brushes to describe entire generations.
It's just no true.

---

Agree. For every lazy, entitled kid there's a hard-working youngster busting his ass to get ahead. Just because kids today have a lot more employment choices in an economy in which employers are desperate for labor doesn't mean they can't hack it in the military. The Services just have to man up and compete harder for quality recruits.

---

Unless there's another recession, or the government stops giving away free money for not working or for not being able to pay back your loans, the only way to really compete for quality is going to be by paying more. Also, a lot of little things that many of us don't realize, like better barracks, more freedom when not on duty, etc.

PanzerAggie06 said:

---

Perhaps its been mentioned before but my biggest fear moving forward is that the day comes when "free" college education becomes a reality.

---

Here in California, JuCo is free for many and enrolment is down. Doesn't really follow the standard Economics pricing models.
https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/college-beat-higher-education/2022/09/free-community-college-california/

I agree with you in principle about the importance of the GI Bill, ROTC Scholarships, etc. but I don't know if people even want to go to college anymore. I've got two military age male cousins who went straight into learning a trade after high school as neither one had any interest in the military or college. In a lot of ways, I can't blame them. New F250 Super Duty versus sleeping in the mud. Easy decision.

Something I consider to be a big factor is the family heritage and history with the military.

For people my age (52), almost everybody's father served and for certain everybody's grandfather served in WWII. I realize that many of those were draftees and not volunteers.

If you look at the fact that during my lifetime, the USA population has increased from 200M to 330M which has been primarily due to immigration, you're looking at probably 130M new Americans who don't have a family heritage of American military service.

That's more than half the country who you would have to convince to be the first one in their family to serve in the military. And if you can easily take the F-250 option, it's going to be difficult to sell the low pay and misery associated with the military. Even if it's not misery, that's the perception that has to be overcome.

I definitely don't envy the job of the Recruiter. And to then be hamstrung by all the other new programs working their way into the military. That's got to be a very difficult job.

GoodBullCommander said:

---

I'm a company commander for a tank company in the Army right now. My PSG who just came from recruiting was telling me how bad the Genesis medical system was. Getting doctors from ten years ago who saw you for a broken arm is difficult and scheduling a new doctor to sign off is a hassle. Everyone is hiring so why would you go through months of that.

The other thing I've noticed is how sheltered the young privates. Over half don't have licenses and talk about having their parents drive them everywhere. A lot them need a jolt that they don't have their parents to take care of them and they react well. I treat them as a adults and almost all of them adjust and work hard.

---

So, DHA took over big AF as well (DHA is ****, I am glad i'm not active duty). They are implementing are switching everyone from Alta to Genesis in the MTFs - slow process.

Agreed. This generation is just lazy and their hands are being held my leadership. It's sad all around

Genesis is actually a huge upgrade over AHLTA and all the other systems that the DoD cobbled togeter over the years. There are certainly better options they could've gone with, but Genesis will improve care across the DoD in the years to come. The rollout is going to be a little painful for the next few years, but it'll be worth it.

aznaggiegirl07 said:

---

Agreed. This generation is just lazy and their hands are being held my leadership. It's sad all around

---

And yes. There's way too many ways for people to get away with not getting kicked out for failing to meet standards. Luckily it wasn't so bad when I was with the Marines, CO/SgtMaj were usually pretty strict, but the E6 and below try to "help" out their junior enlisted by making excuses for them. But even CO/SgtMaj used to try and blame "medical" or "the rules" instead of telling the person they need to work harder.

The biggest obstacle for DHA is that each service essentially refuses to help it or it's systems.
Each service wants to wholly own their people and their system and will do nothing to help resolve even little problems in an effort to show how awful the system is. Look at what each service did during Covid.

We could combine nearly all service support functions into a single agency and cut so much fat, but each service wants their own forms, DA, DAF, DOD, etc. talk about fraud waste and abuse.

This.

DHA is the only responsible way to run healthcare for the joint force. Stop duplicating everything five times over.

Our personnel costs are already half the Pentagon budget. We certainly can't afford to pay more and provide more comprehensive healthcare, so the only answer is finding some efficiency. Maybe start with the legions of GS employees and contractors who fight change with every sinew of their strength.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

---

aznaggiegirl07 said:

---

What makes it difficult is that the DoD has contracts with these unhealthy fast food chains.

When I was at Cannon, they got a new Popeyes in on base. Holy crap. So freaking busy for at least a month.

---

Yeah. Also a lot of these kids don't have cars, and the commissary can be miles away on some bases. Their barracks also don't have much in the way of ability to cook. Chow hall food can be healthy, but they often opt for the pizza line instead of the salad line. And many even skip the chow hall, despite already paying for the food, and go for fast food.

It amazed me how much they spend on fast food when they can essentially eat for free.

Will say though, the majority of kids that lose the weight keep it off.

Were you at Cannon as part of the medical there? Or were you part of a human performance program with their equivalent of body composition failure program?

---

My son was stationed at Pendleton and he said the chow hall food in most dining halls was terrible. The lowest bidder wins the contract and most of those doing the cooking didn't care at all. The one good chow hall was a 15m drive from his barracks was "ok" but then one next door was almost inedible.

He also said the chow hall food in Okinawa was the some of the best food he's ever eaten.