Defense secretary orders 60-day stand-down to confront extremism in the military

4,402 Views | 28 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by CT'97
japantiger
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:29p, 2/4/21
S
This is where you get labeled extremist if you voted for Trump. The ****ing Speaker of the House has called Trump supporters terrorists for crying out loud. This is where taking an oath to support and defend the Constitution goes out the window...now Party loyalty will be required....If we had a true Republican Senate, this is where the ASC would demand an explanation and definition for extremism...and ask the new Sec Def why he hasn't mentioned BLM or Antifa...and how this actually makes our country safer. Our enemies are laughing at us.

For the record, there were 2 people with any current tie to the military involved out of the approx 5000 identified in the crowd at the capital (National Guard). Approx 20 people that had served (veterans) have been charged. .0044 of those involved. But yeah, the military is the problem.

Defense secretary orders 60-day stand-down to confront extremism in the military

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/02/03/defense-secretary-orders-60-day-stand-down-to-confront-extremism-in-the-military/
“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.”
Joseph Heller, Catch 22
Reply Quote
11
AllTheFishes
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
2:03p, 2/5/21
AG
You are wrong, please go away.
Reply Quote
12
cavscout96
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to AllTheFishes • 10:13a, 2/7/21
AG
Wow.... What a lucid and we'll thought out rebuttal..... Bravo.
Reply Quote
21
74OA
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:36a, 2/7/21
AG
I'd much rather we aggressively nip it in the bud than wait until it perhaps becomes a real problem in the ranks.

"The issue of neo-Nazi, far-right and other racist hate groups working and recruiting inside the military has increasingly alarmed the Pentagon, backed by a Military Times poll last year in which one in three active-duty service members who responded reporting they have "personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism within the ranks in recent months," an increase from the previous year's survey."

PRUDENT
Reply Quote
9
AllTheFishes
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to cavscout96 • 1:38p, 2/7/21
AG
cavscout96 said:
Wow.... What a lucid and we'll thought out rebuttal..... Bravo.
It's wrong and did not need a well thought out or detailed rebuttal.
Reply Quote
10
74OA
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to AllTheFishes • 1:47p, 2/7/21
AG
AllTheFishes said:
cavscout96 said:
Wow.... What a lucid and we'll thought out rebuttal..... Bravo.
It's wrong and did not need a well thought out or detailed rebuttal.
Its hysteria makes rational rebuttal a waste of breath.
Reply Quote
13
cavscout96
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 74OA • 3:15p, 2/7/21
AG
Glad to see the ivory tower has spoken and does not deign to offer a reasoned reply.

I'd say the gang activity rampant in the ranks is at least as bad as any percieved white nationalist problem as evidenced by the recent (several year history) violence at Ft. Hood, but hey.... It's not the boogeyman in the news, right?



Reply Quote
20
AgBQ-00
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
3:30p, 2/7/21
AG
When they are targeting servicemen who simply have the Gadsden flag on social media I think we know what type of "extremism" they are looking for. This is nothing more than obama2.0 military purge
Communists aren't people. They are property of the state.
Reply Quote
14
CT'97
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:31p, 2/7/21
AG
Quote:
Glad to see the ivory tower has spoken and does not deign to offer a reasoned reply.

I'd say the gang activity rampant in the ranks is at least as bad as any percieved white nationalist problem as evidenced by the recent (several year history) violence at Ft. Hood, but hey.... It's not the boogeyman in the news, right?
Please show me something that will prove this is reality and not just pouring gasoline on a fire. Your statement reeks of political rhetoric and has little to do with the reality on the ground.

Have you spoken to anybody still serving who actually is executing the Secretary of Defenses stand down and addressing extremism in the ranks or are you just assuming the worst and arguing for what you hope will support your political point.
Texas A&M - 144 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.
Reply Quote
2
cavscout96
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:41p, 2/7/21
AG
I'm not the OP.

I'm merely pointing out that the original response to the OP was more than a little full of itself.

Not a fan of arrogant know-it-alls.

Is the stand-down needed? Maybe.

I'm a bit dated, but I would tell you that any commander worth his salt would already be on top of things like this. It's not like it happened overnight.

My other concern, having read Austin's memo, is how are we defining extremism and who gets to set the narrative.

If we are truly addressing extremism, in all it's forms, fine. If we are in a witch-hunt against one particular group, not fine.

Reply Quote
18
1 edit
AgLaw02
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to CT'97 • 10:46p, 2/16/21
AG
CT'97 said:
Quote:
Glad to see the ivory tower has spoken and does not deign to offer a reasoned reply.

I'd say the gang activity rampant in the ranks is at least as bad as any percieved white nationalist problem as evidenced by the recent (several year history) violence at Ft. Hood, but hey.... It's not the boogeyman in the news, right?
Please show me something that will prove this is reality and not just pouring gasoline on a fire. Your statement reeks of political rhetoric and has little to do with the reality on the ground.

Have you spoken to anybody still serving who actually is executing the Secretary of Defenses stand down and addressing extremism in the ranks or are you just assuming the worst and arguing for what you hope will support your political point.
More guidance is incoming before the stand down day is executed (btw, it's a stand down day, not a 60-day stand down as OP described) but my commander mentioned the emphasis would be on the Air Force core values, and the requirement to treat everyone with dignity and respect. I do NOT share OP's concerns.
Reply Quote
3
CT'97
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:42a, 2/17/21
AG
Wait, not a hysterical over reaction designed to spread distrust and curry hatred of one side against the other? How ever is that possible?
Texas A&M - 144 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.
Reply Quote
1
HighwaySix
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:36p, 3/17/21
AG
EXCLUSIVE: Biden Admin Halts Navy Operations, Orders Sailors to Undergo 'Chilling' Stand-Down Training PJ Media
Reply Quote
1
bigtruckguy3500
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to HighwaySix • 8:37p, 3/17/21
We're doing ours Friday. Just so happens to be in conjunction with another safety stand down due to people being dumb, but we'll see what it's like.

I'll also add that it sounds simple to say that "extremism is bad, we shouldn't do it, or tolerate it" and everyone would agree. I'm sure we could also agree that everyone in the military would agree that rape is bad, and we shouldn't sexually assault anyone, sexually harass them, or circulate rumors, pictures, etc. Yet both still happen.

I don't know if this training will prevent anything, just like I don't know if the sexual assault prevention training prevents anything. But you can't exactly just ignore it and do nothing under the principle that it's generally considered wrong by the majority of society.
Reply Quote
4
1 edit
DBird
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:55a, 3/18/21
All of the scenarios mentioned in the training have one thing in common. They were all Neo Nazis before they joined the ranks. They don't mention this in the training but with a little research you can find this as fact. All of these service members had Facebook accounts that linked them to these groups and with that platform's algorithm to keep people scrolling these should have been easy to spot prior to their enlistment. Just call the training what it is and stop beating around the bush, it's white extremism training.
Reply Quote
5
Rabid Cougar
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:04a, 3/18/21
AG
3-2-1 We now have mandatory "EXTREMISM AND CORROSIVE BEHAVIOR STAND DOWN (MAN-ECB-21) " training.
Reply Quote
1
74OA
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 3:14p, 3/18/21
AG
bigtruckguy3500 said:
We're doing ours Friday. Just so happens to be in conjunction with another safety stand down due to people being dumb, but we'll see what it's like.

I'll also add that it sounds simple to say that "extremism is bad, we shouldn't do it, or tolerate it" and everyone would agree. I'm sure we could also agree that everyone in the military would agree that rape is bad, and we shouldn't sexually assault anyone, sexually harass them, or circulate rumors, pictures, etc. Yet both still happen.

I don't know if this training will prevent anything, just like I don't know if the sexual assault prevention training prevents anything. But you can't exactly just ignore it and do nothing under the principle that it's generally considered wrong by the majority of society.
Even if the training isn't preventative, it does serve the purpose of putting people on notice regarding specific behavior that violates the UCMJ so they can't claim ignorance if they are disciplined in the future.
Reply Quote
6
bigtruckguy3500
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
3:30p, 3/20/21
So, just a follow up. Ours was yesterday. I'm not sure how every unit/branch did it, but ours was a video from Lloyd Austin, followed by a video from the commandant/SgtMaj. Our CO also spent a good bit of time talking about the oath of office/enlistment, what they mean, their similarities/differences, etc. Then we broke up into small groups, mostly led by field grade, some led by E7's and above. We talked about extremist ideology of all types, and the unifying idea that extremists tend to believe there is only ONE correct way of thinking. And the take home point was you wear a uniform, you represent more than just yourself, people may seek to target/recruit you for the uniform you wear and things you know, or use you as a poster child for their propaganda to gain legitimacy - be smart.

Maybe it'll make a difference, maybe it won't. Maybe, like you said 74OA, it nips things early on so in 5-10 years we aren't scrambling to put down a much larger organization that has been infesting the ranks.
Reply Quote
3
Aggie118
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:05p, 3/23/21
AG
Having our radical extremism training tomorrow followed by mandatory sports... I'll report back.
Reply Quote
1 edit
74OA
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:54a, 4/9/21
AG
Nice vignette about tackling this subject at unit level: EXTREMISM
Reply Quote
1 edit
inconvenient truth
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:12p, 4/13/21
Where were these discussions after ft hood or corpus? Or fake hate crimes at USAFA, and the lack of apologies from leaders after basically calling all the cadets a bunch of racists.
Reply Quote
4
1 edit
Fly Army 97
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:05a, 4/14/21
The commandant addressed a high profile investigation. Basically told everyone that if they can't treat everyone with dignity and respect then go home. What to apologize for? Bringing up being decent human being in light of what was perceived as wrong doing? Turns out it was fake. Do his words have any merit to them?

"Just in case you're unclear on where I stand on this topic, I'm going to leave you my most important thought today: If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, then you need to get out. If you can't treat someone from another gender, whether that's a man or a woman, with dignity and respect, then you need to get out. If you demean someone in any way, then you need to get out. And if you can't treat someone from another race, or different color skin, with dignity and respect, then you need to get out."

We, have extremest groups actively recruiting in our ranks - groups that are inconsistent with our oath to the constitution. I thought the training was good and not forced, and our instructor was engaged/did his homework....thought I knew about these groups already, but I wasn't aware of their recruiting efforts to the extent we discussed. It's being addressed with acknowledgement that there are many sides to this, and it's not exactly clear cut.

Reply Quote
4
2 edits
CanyonAg77
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Fly Army 97 • 8:49a, 4/14/21
AG
Quote:
The commandant addressed a high profile investigation. Basically told everyone that if they can't treat everyone with dignity and respect then go home.
Disagree.

He didn't "tell" them. He chewed them out, as if they were all guilty. To top it off, he was yelling at the Academy cadets, when the fake hate crime was at the Prep School, a separate unit.
Reply Quote
5
Fly Army 97
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:29a, 4/14/21
All that to say, do we support this current line of effort or is it nulled by a 'but what about XXX'? So far, I've seen decent feedback, minus some leaders who didn't do their homework on the subject matter.
Reply Quote
2
1 edit
HollywoodBQ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Fly Army 97 • 11:56a, 4/14/21
AG
Fly Army 97 said:
We, have extremest groups actively recruiting in our ranks - groups that are inconsistent with our oath to the constitution. I thought the training was good and not forced, and our instructor was engaged/did his homework....thought I knew about these groups already, but I wasn't aware of their recruiting efforts to the extent we discussed. It's being addressed with acknowledgement that there are many sides to this, and it's not exactly clear cut.
Can you elaborate on these groups and their recruiting efforts?

When I was at A&M in the late 80s - early 90s, I know the Confederate Hammerskins were actively recruiting in Waco anyway. I never heard about them in College Station.

Lucky for me, they decided pretty quickly I wasn't a good fit and they stopped trying to recruit me.

Obviously the Klan is pretty well dead so, other than making jokes about Vidor or Santa Fe, I haven't even heard about the Klan for at least 15 years. I still remember that poor Klan guy standing by himself across the street from Midway HS in Waco wearing his hood and complaining about something or another circa 1988. When you're having a protest and only one guy shows up, that's a pretty sad statement for your organization.

My guess about the current state of affairs is that there are probably some extremist groups in remote areas of Idaho or Montana or something like that. I'm curious to hear what the training shared with you all.

Also, did they spend much time on Latino gangs, MS-13, etc.
Reply Quote
1 edit
CanyonAg77
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to HollywoodBQ • 12:06p, 4/14/21
AG
Quote:
I still remember that poor Klan guy standing by himself across the street from Midway HS in Waco wearing his hood and complaining about something or another circa 1988
He was probably an FBI agent, or a coerced FBI informant
Reply Quote
Fly Army 97
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to HollywoodBQ • 1:18p, 4/14/21
HollywoodBQ said:
Fly Army 97 said:
We, have extremest groups actively recruiting in our ranks - groups that are inconsistent with our oath to the constitution. I thought the training was good and not forced, and our instructor was engaged/did his homework....thought I knew about these groups already, but I wasn't aware of their recruiting efforts to the extent we discussed. It's being addressed with acknowledgement that there are many sides to this, and it's not exactly clear cut.
Can you elaborate on these groups and their recruiting efforts?

Also, did they spend much time on Latino gangs, MS-13, etc.
They walked through the pathway to extremism (interest, language, association, action, advocacy) and showed a few examples. Most were associated with groups we've heard on the news (more than I was familiar with), but also discussed was the splinters that have come up over the last few years as well. There was reference to gangs but not specifically MS-13. ISIS recruiting was highlighted in an example as well. Other Ideologies explained included Anti-Gov, Religious Extremism, Abortion Extremism, etc.

"military personnel must reject active participation in criminal gangs and in other organizations that advocate supremacist, extremist, or criminal gang doctrine, ideology, or causes; including those that attempt to create illegal discrimination based on race, creed, color, sex, religion, ethnicity, or national origin; advocate the use of force, violence, or criminal activity; or otherwise engage in efforts to deprive individuals of their civil rights."
Reply Quote
1
HollywoodBQ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Fly Army 97 • 1:59p, 4/14/21
AG
Thanks for sharing that.

So, in simple terms, we're talking about the Timothy McVeighs and Nidal Hassans of the world.
Quote:
They walked through the pathway to extremism (interest, language, association, action, advocacy) and showed a few examples
I've never seen an academic breakdown of the steps to recruit people before. So that is interesting.

That sounds like the stories I've seen on TV about undercover law enforcement officers joining 1%er motorcycle gangs. For myself, even though I look like a member of the Hitler Youth, when I knew I was being targeted for recruiting, the Confederate Hammerskins guys lost me at the first step you listed - interest. But, I know some people who made it a few more steps down the path before they figured out they didn't want to join.
Quote:
advocate the use of force, violence, or criminal activity
So they're not necessarily defining "extremism" as somebody flying a Confederate Flag but rather, somebody who is joining some splinter faction that is willing to take action and perform criminal activity, especially violence, in the name of whatever their nutball cause is. - i.e. people who want to stop killing unborn babies by killing abortion doctors.

I'm also curious about what do they estimate the size of this "problem / situation" to be?

I assume that we're talking about some fraction of a fraction of a percentage point.
Literally 1 in a million or something like that.
Reply Quote
1 edit
Fly Army 97
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
2:12p, 4/14/21
(Edit - misread your question, but I don't remember the numbers....if I find them, I'll post.)

Much like this board may be doing....define extremism as a start....define what is prohibited, give examples, reporting requirements, have that discussion and relook our oaths. The split of talk (I'm generalizing) was half of the organizations not I mentioned and half militia/extremist groups associated with current events (10-15). The examples were mostly the latter, but one included the ISIS example. I do agree this was more than flying a flag. It was clear association/advocation/participation in such groups. All of which I think we can agree is not good for the Armed Services.
Reply Quote
1 edit
CT'97
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:21a, 4/19/21
AG
These are the faces of extremism in the military

Quote:
Ethan Melzer is a prime example, according to prosecutors. Last year, the 22-year-old Army private allegedly plotted with a Satanic neo-Nazi group to carry out a "mass casualty" attack on soldiers of his airborne unit during a deployment to Turkey, according to the Justice Department.

Quote:
Although the vast majority of military members serve honorably, extremists have long viewed the armed services as a fertile recruiting ground. An FBI assessment distributed to law enforcement agencies in February concluded that white supremacists would "very likely seek affiliation with military and law enforcement entities in furtherance" of their ideologies, as ABC News reported. But the warning signs go back more than a decade: a 2009 Homeland Security report warned that military veterans possess combat skills and experiences that are attractive to right-wing extremists in particular.

In recent years, experts have sounded alarm bells over the rise of extremism within the ranks. For many, that issue was brought to the fore in the wake of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol. This was in part due to revelations that nearly 20 percent of those charged after the riot were current or former military members raising fears that anti-government other extremist sentiments had taken root within the military and veterans community.

Texas A&M - 144 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.
Reply Quote
1
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.