Heard some were treated poorly by civilians if you had on your uniform (although some strangers might buy you a beer). Was the treatment in Texas different from say California or New York? I just couldn't imagine folks in Hobby Airport or Love Field treating vets poorly.
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Treatment in the USA when returning home in uniform from Vietnam
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Last: 4 yr ago by Trench55
I can only speak from my personal experience.
I served as a 2nd LT. / 1st LT in Vietnam (Army Field Artillery) in 1967. Came home in January 1968 (missed the Tet Offensive by 10 days or so). At no time was I ever treated with anything but respect, however I remained on active duty for another three years and was immersed in the Army culture, serving with others who had returned from Vietnam service. I have heard for some with whom I served in Vietnam that they were not treated well upon their return. Almost to a man, those who said they weren't treated well were enlisted. I don't remember any of the officers or NCOs with whom I served saying they were treated badly.
There were reports in the press of returning soldiers being cursed or spit upon, but I never witnessed that kind of behavior.
I served as a 2nd LT. / 1st LT in Vietnam (Army Field Artillery) in 1967. Came home in January 1968 (missed the Tet Offensive by 10 days or so). At no time was I ever treated with anything but respect, however I remained on active duty for another three years and was immersed in the Army culture, serving with others who had returned from Vietnam service. I have heard for some with whom I served in Vietnam that they were not treated well upon their return. Almost to a man, those who said they weren't treated well were enlisted. I don't remember any of the officers or NCOs with whom I served saying they were treated badly.
There were reports in the press of returning soldiers being cursed or spit upon, but I never witnessed that kind of behavior.
From Vietnam HD series
I have been volunteering at the Salt Lake VA Medical Center and have had a few relate that experience. I do recall in 1973 being in a bus terminal in Wichita, KS in uniform and had one individual make comments about the Army losing in Vietnam. (I did not serve in Vietnam). Being in the Army was not looked upon with favor in those days as any type of career choice.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
-Havelock Vetinari
Served multiple (almost 3 years) tours in Vietnam as a Marine Infantry Officer and them flying the F4 Phantom.
Never had any instance of the so called disrespect toward military. Heard the stories, but never from someone to which it happened (always hearsay). Wear your uniform to a "hippie" bash, expect to receive some heat.
Another big story from Vietnam era, the "draft dodgers" versus "draft deferments". Deferments were common place (college, married with family, medical) very easy to get. "Draft dodgers" were those that received their draft notice and never showed for induction. Those that requested and received deferments never bothered me, just part of the system. Those that "dodged" is another story.
After my first tour with 3rd Marines in Vietnam(1968), some HS classmates thank me and said they wanted to go but never received their draft notice (all had deferments for college/married with families). My answer, VOLUNTEER, and you could hear a "pin drop".
Myself, married just prior to heading to Vietnam in 1968, working on our 52nd year together, two sons as Marine Officers served in SWAsia on multiple tours. And now one Marine Grandson, currently with 2nd Marines, with 4 more in college/school.
Semper Fi
Never had any instance of the so called disrespect toward military. Heard the stories, but never from someone to which it happened (always hearsay). Wear your uniform to a "hippie" bash, expect to receive some heat.
Another big story from Vietnam era, the "draft dodgers" versus "draft deferments". Deferments were common place (college, married with family, medical) very easy to get. "Draft dodgers" were those that received their draft notice and never showed for induction. Those that requested and received deferments never bothered me, just part of the system. Those that "dodged" is another story.
After my first tour with 3rd Marines in Vietnam(1968), some HS classmates thank me and said they wanted to go but never received their draft notice (all had deferments for college/married with families). My answer, VOLUNTEER, and you could hear a "pin drop".
Myself, married just prior to heading to Vietnam in 1968, working on our 52nd year together, two sons as Marine Officers served in SWAsia on multiple tours. And now one Marine Grandson, currently with 2nd Marines, with 4 more in college/school.
Semper Fi
Kind of sounds like the typical "Urban Legend". Never any first hand reports, just "I heard it happened...."Quote:
Never had any instance of the so called disrespect toward military. Heard the stories, but never from someone to which it happened (always hearsay).
CanyonAg77 - My take on it is that there were some instances of this happening, but I believe that they have been embellished over the years. I have also come to believe that at least some of the men I know who claim to have received this behavior read or heard about it so much over the years that they truly believe it happened to them, whether it actually did or not. Over the years I have noticed a sense of "victim mentality" on the part of a some Vietnam veterans.
It's also interesting that starting in the late 70s, friends of mine who had not served in the military during Vietnam began lamenting to me the fact that they had missed the experience and felt the need to offer excuses for not serving. Even some friends who had served on active duty but never received orders to Vietnam, seemed apologetic that they hadn't gone.
It's also interesting that starting in the late 70s, friends of mine who had not served in the military during Vietnam began lamenting to me the fact that they had missed the experience and felt the need to offer excuses for not serving. Even some friends who had served on active duty but never received orders to Vietnam, seemed apologetic that they hadn't gone.
I fall into that category. 10 April 71 - 10 April 73. Two long lonely years keeping Oklahoma safe for democracy.Trench55 said:
CanyonAg77 - My take on it is that there were some instances of this happening, but I believe that they have been embellished over the years. I have also come to believe that at least some of the men I know who claim to have received this behavior read or heard about it so much over the years that they truly believe it happened to them, whether it actually did or not. Over the years I have noticed a sense of "victim mentality" on the part of a some Vietnam veterans.
It's also interesting that starting in the late 70s, friends of mine who had not served in the military during Vietnam began lamenting to me the fact that they had missed the experience and felt the need to offer excuses for not serving. Even some friends who had served on active duty but never received orders to Vietnam, seemed apologetic that they hadn't gone.
My dad, class of '50 fought in the Pacific, my grandad was in the trenches 11/11/18 when the Great War ended. Being a veteran defined my grandad his whole life. We had lots of discussions, borderline arguments, about my refusal to join the American Legion or other veterans organizations. The discussion still comes up today with friends of mine who served in Viet-Nam.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.
James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
I came home from Vietnam in 1967, after spending the year in the Central Highlands with the 1st Cav. My return in public situations was never met with any disrespect, even after being at home for several years. What I did feel, however was almost a universal apathy . Nobody seemed to care, or even offer any kind of comments about service to the country. Nobody outside of family even seemed curious; In fact, I never heard "thank you" until a good 20 years later. None of us came back seeking accolades for doing our job, but at the same time, it was tough living amongst the flag burners and the protestors. And there was nobody to really talk about it with except your veteran brothers. It really tough a time, for me anyway.
OK - here's personal experience through those years.
I was enlisted 1968-1972, and spent most of that time at A&M pursuing additional degree programs - Active duty students on campus wore uniforms one day a week to complement the Corps of Cadets. Spent calendar year 1970 in Iceland. Travel in uniform was not a problem for me. In fact, since assignment was remote, beards were OK Achieved rank of TSgt.
As the Viet Namese War strung out it became extremely unpopular by the general population and consensus. My personal opinion of the reason why is because the U.S. military was filled with mostly draft eligible troops who were limited in action by the approvals required in Washington and political pressures to not use the available military might that "might aggravate China" into entering the War. Therefore, the troops (most of whom were not volunteers) were hamstrung from "winning" - which should be the end goal in any war. It strung out so long. Very frustrating for both the troops and the civilian population at home who wanted more action and a conclusion. There was a lot of "dead time" in which many of the troops experimented with drugs for the first time and came home addicted. The issue of PTSD (Post Traumatric Sydrome) became a front and center issue and "mental health" became a primary concern of healthcare professionals more than ever before - and has become a primary issue for the military ever since.. The press was involved on TV for the first time and did their very best to show every possible negative situation that occurred - intended or not. Notable celebrities like Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali refused to go in spite of being drafted - set a pattern of non-aggressive resistance that became a resistance nation wide. Very NON-patriotic.
The "enlightened age" of the late 1960's with commune living all along the West Coast and anti-establishment activities like Woodstock in 1969 - all promoted by the media - all contributed to the mood of the time. "Free Love" with the advent of "the pill" did not jive with the conformity required in the military and the general population up until that time. The point is that the boomer kids raised on Dr. Spock non-corporal idealism was diametrically opposite the mind set required by the military. FWIW, the A&M Corp of Cadets had a lot of pressure to "weaken it's traditional" activities after becoming optional in 1965 as well. I never observed the co-eds causing that much of a rukus as was expected. But, the Corps becoming non-required was mind boggling change for A&M - especially given what was going on at most other college campuses with SDS (Students for a Democratic Society) etc.
I was Commissioned as an officer in 1972, Stationed in downtown Dallas 1973-1978 in Federal Building at SW Division Corps of Engineers. During this period All of us active Military were told to wear civilian clothes to and from home to office downtown and only wear uniforms when on base. This was due to various attacks on military personnel in Dallas. We were not allowed to even stop and shop en route to base (Carswell) or downtown Dallas in uniform, nor were we allowed to travel in uniform at the time. We changed into uniform after arriving on base when TDY or enroute PCS.
This changed during the period when I was at USAFE 1978-1981. Afterwards, when I was at HQ USAF in both San Antonio and Washington D.C. during the 80's there were not restrictions on wear of the uniform depending on job requirements. The uniform was not a detriment during those years at all and in fact there was a lot of pride in the wearing of the uniform.
When the Middle East flared up and the troops who participated were "volunteer" the mood of the country switched from antagonistic toward the military to being supportive of the various altercations. When Kuwait was invaded and Iraq/Saddam was swiftly deposed which was a feather in the cap of the military in spite not finding weapons of destruction (which had been moved into Syria). .
Vast improvement in weaponry (GPS, drones, etc.) whereby targets were hit within a few feet accuracy with minimal damage to the civilian population was much more palatable than the sweeping damage often done in Viet Nam.
I was enlisted 1968-1972, and spent most of that time at A&M pursuing additional degree programs - Active duty students on campus wore uniforms one day a week to complement the Corps of Cadets. Spent calendar year 1970 in Iceland. Travel in uniform was not a problem for me. In fact, since assignment was remote, beards were OK Achieved rank of TSgt.
As the Viet Namese War strung out it became extremely unpopular by the general population and consensus. My personal opinion of the reason why is because the U.S. military was filled with mostly draft eligible troops who were limited in action by the approvals required in Washington and political pressures to not use the available military might that "might aggravate China" into entering the War. Therefore, the troops (most of whom were not volunteers) were hamstrung from "winning" - which should be the end goal in any war. It strung out so long. Very frustrating for both the troops and the civilian population at home who wanted more action and a conclusion. There was a lot of "dead time" in which many of the troops experimented with drugs for the first time and came home addicted. The issue of PTSD (Post Traumatric Sydrome) became a front and center issue and "mental health" became a primary concern of healthcare professionals more than ever before - and has become a primary issue for the military ever since.. The press was involved on TV for the first time and did their very best to show every possible negative situation that occurred - intended or not. Notable celebrities like Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali refused to go in spite of being drafted - set a pattern of non-aggressive resistance that became a resistance nation wide. Very NON-patriotic.
The "enlightened age" of the late 1960's with commune living all along the West Coast and anti-establishment activities like Woodstock in 1969 - all promoted by the media - all contributed to the mood of the time. "Free Love" with the advent of "the pill" did not jive with the conformity required in the military and the general population up until that time. The point is that the boomer kids raised on Dr. Spock non-corporal idealism was diametrically opposite the mind set required by the military. FWIW, the A&M Corp of Cadets had a lot of pressure to "weaken it's traditional" activities after becoming optional in 1965 as well. I never observed the co-eds causing that much of a rukus as was expected. But, the Corps becoming non-required was mind boggling change for A&M - especially given what was going on at most other college campuses with SDS (Students for a Democratic Society) etc.
I was Commissioned as an officer in 1972, Stationed in downtown Dallas 1973-1978 in Federal Building at SW Division Corps of Engineers. During this period All of us active Military were told to wear civilian clothes to and from home to office downtown and only wear uniforms when on base. This was due to various attacks on military personnel in Dallas. We were not allowed to even stop and shop en route to base (Carswell) or downtown Dallas in uniform, nor were we allowed to travel in uniform at the time. We changed into uniform after arriving on base when TDY or enroute PCS.
This changed during the period when I was at USAFE 1978-1981. Afterwards, when I was at HQ USAF in both San Antonio and Washington D.C. during the 80's there were not restrictions on wear of the uniform depending on job requirements. The uniform was not a detriment during those years at all and in fact there was a lot of pride in the wearing of the uniform.
When the Middle East flared up and the troops who participated were "volunteer" the mood of the country switched from antagonistic toward the military to being supportive of the various altercations. When Kuwait was invaded and Iraq/Saddam was swiftly deposed which was a feather in the cap of the military in spite not finding weapons of destruction (which had been moved into Syria). .
Vast improvement in weaponry (GPS, drones, etc.) whereby targets were hit within a few feet accuracy with minimal damage to the civilian population was much more palatable than the sweeping damage often done in Viet Nam.
AAAAAAAAAAg - Air Force Aggie Architect and Hospital Administrator fm Amarillo, Altus, Austin, Arabia, Arkansas, Africa, Seoul, Bahrain, Amman, Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, DFW-Fairview, Ramstein, San Antonio, Pentagon, OKC, JCAHO/JCR - '65, '69, '73 - A&M Letterman (ret).
Winston Churchill: “If you’re not a socialist in your twenties, you have no heart. But if you’re not a capitalist in your thirties, you have no mind.”
Winston Churchill: “If you’re not a socialist in your twenties, you have no heart. But if you’re not a capitalist in your thirties, you have no mind.”
75% of the Vietnam era military were volunteers, not draftees.Quote:
Therefore, the troops (most of whom were not volunteers)
Now it could probably be argued that many volunteered to get preference on jobs as opposed to waiting for a draft notice, and draftees were more prevalent in country, but I don't have those numbers.
Something like 50% of WWII vets were drafted. I had uncles who tried to volunteer early, and were basically told to go home and wait for the inevitable draft notice. The military didn't have the training and facilities up to speed in the early years, so no need for bodies.
Most of my relatives went to work in Defense Plants in California. One uncle was so valuable in his plant, he could have asked for deferment, but joined the Air Corps and served on a B-24 in the South Pacific.
I would like to see some references on your 75%. Don't think that's right. Every enlisted person I knew was drafted.
Looks like my memory failed on WWII. It was 2/3 draftees, not 1/2.Aggie1 said:
I would like to see some references on your 75%. Don't think that's right. Every enlisted person I knew was drafted.
https://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm#:~:text=25%25%20(648%2C500)%20of%20total,of%20combat%20deaths%20in%20Vietnam.
Quote:
Draftees vs. Volunteers:
25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII.)
Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam.
Reservists killed: 5,977.
National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died.
Total draftees (1965-73): 1,728,344.
Actually served in Vietnam: 38%
Yeah - I found the same reference... Lots of good information there...
https://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm#:~:text=25%25%20(648%2C500)%20of%20total,Reservists%20killed%3A%205%2C977.
Also interesting from the U of Michigan
http://michiganintheworld.history.lsa.umich.edu/antivietnamwar/exhibits/show/exhibit/draft_protests/the-military-draft-during-the-
One of the main reasons this is a sore point for me is that I was getting a double degree in CE and Architecture beginning in 1961. After 5 years and still no degree and the draft rule was only a one year deferment past 4 years in college, the draft got me in April 1967. Thus I enlisted, and got AECP and Bootstrap and AFIT programs to finish my degrees at A&M. To be fair, with Uncle Sam paying for books fees and tuition along with my "enlisted salary" (such that it was...) after my Amarillo Hometown Club scholarship expired it was so much easier to do well in class and not have 2-3 jobs to maintain... And, though I incurred additional active duty obligations, mine were excellent assignments throughout my career. I owe the military a lot and am so thankful for my retirement income today as a result!!.
https://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm#:~:text=25%25%20(648%2C500)%20of%20total,Reservists%20killed%3A%205%2C977.
Also interesting from the U of Michigan
http://michiganintheworld.history.lsa.umich.edu/antivietnamwar/exhibits/show/exhibit/draft_protests/the-military-draft-during-the-
One of the main reasons this is a sore point for me is that I was getting a double degree in CE and Architecture beginning in 1961. After 5 years and still no degree and the draft rule was only a one year deferment past 4 years in college, the draft got me in April 1967. Thus I enlisted, and got AECP and Bootstrap and AFIT programs to finish my degrees at A&M. To be fair, with Uncle Sam paying for books fees and tuition along with my "enlisted salary" (such that it was...) after my Amarillo Hometown Club scholarship expired it was so much easier to do well in class and not have 2-3 jobs to maintain... And, though I incurred additional active duty obligations, mine were excellent assignments throughout my career. I owe the military a lot and am so thankful for my retirement income today as a result!!.
Addressing the Drafted vs. Volunteered in Vietnam. Understand, I'm talking about anecdotal information only, based on my personal experience.
I entered active duty as a 2nd LT in Artillery (Field Artillery) in April 1966 and after Field Artillery Officers Basic Course at Fort Sill, OK, and Airborne School at Fort Benning, GA, I reported to my first duty assignment with the 9th Infantry Division at Fort Riley, KS. The 9th ID had recently been reactivated and had received thousands of draftees directly from the reception centers, still in civilian clothes. They went through basic training within the division. Then certain specialty MOSs were sent to branch schools for AIT, while the rest went through AIT within the division. By December 1966 the first elements arrived in Vietnam.
In my experience in Vietnam, a majority of the lower level enlisted soldiers with whom I served in Vietnam were draftees. Now, I'm guessing the most of the NCOs, Warrant Officers and Commissioned Officers were volunteers. And I'm sure there were many volunteers within the lower enlisted ranks, but, as I said, in my experience, most with whom I served were draftees.
I entered active duty as a 2nd LT in Artillery (Field Artillery) in April 1966 and after Field Artillery Officers Basic Course at Fort Sill, OK, and Airborne School at Fort Benning, GA, I reported to my first duty assignment with the 9th Infantry Division at Fort Riley, KS. The 9th ID had recently been reactivated and had received thousands of draftees directly from the reception centers, still in civilian clothes. They went through basic training within the division. Then certain specialty MOSs were sent to branch schools for AIT, while the rest went through AIT within the division. By December 1966 the first elements arrived in Vietnam.
In my experience in Vietnam, a majority of the lower level enlisted soldiers with whom I served in Vietnam were draftees. Now, I'm guessing the most of the NCOs, Warrant Officers and Commissioned Officers were volunteers. And I'm sure there were many volunteers within the lower enlisted ranks, but, as I said, in my experience, most with whom I served were draftees.
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