Cadet Command assessions question - OT/PA

3,026 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by bigtruckguy3500
Fly Army 97
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Trinity or someone else familiar with the process if a student is majoring in OT and wants to branch 65A or 65D. I am familiar with the PA program in the Army, but do cadets compete for these type MOS like any other if in an ROTC program?
clarythedrill
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No, they do not compete for those positions for branching at commissioning. They would need to apply for Ed delay to attend medical school and be accepted into those programs.

Only medical branch they compete for that is close to this is Medical Services, which does not feed into any real medical field.

Best thing for them to do, if already in an ROTC program, is get the contact information for the Brigade Nurse for whatever brigade they are in and they can explain EVERYTHING to them and how to go about it.

Which program are they in if you don't mind me asking? I may be able to square them away with contacts and info.
Trinity Ag
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S
Clary is correct.

All Medical Corps officer accessions run through their own processes, not the base Cadet Command process.

ROTC produces Nurses and Medical Service.

Ed Delay is the primary mechanism of transition from ROTC to the Medical Corps, but most Medical Corps officers and produced via Direct Commissions and OCS.
Fly Army 97
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Thank you gentlemen. An old mentor of mine is helping out a sophomore about to sign a contract. Not really sure if the details, but I'll pass this along.

Would the cadet even need to do ROTC then?
bigtruckguy3500
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He shouldn't do rotc if he's sure he wants to go medical corps. He may get push back from his rotc detachment, or the education delay may not get approved.
Trinity Ag
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bigtruckguy3500 said:

He shouldn't do rotc if he's sure he wants to go medical corps. He may get push back from his rotc detachment, or the education delay may not get approved.
Not sure this us great advice, depending on what the student wants.

Does he was to serve in the Army?

Or does he want to be a doctor/Physical therapist, who happens to serve in the Army?

If his overall goal is military service, there is not much downside to ROTC.

"Push Back" is not really a thing in this case. He applies for Ed Delay, and gets it or doesn't. If he is competitive for Medical School, the selection rate for Ed Delay is extremely high. He can also choose reserve forces -- and continue with his education on the civilian side.

The issue is that a lot of Cadets think their 2.8 GPAs are going to get them into PA/PT/vet/med/dental school and they are generally mistaken.

But he should really talk to the Medical Corps recruiting folks to get a sense of their path to 65.
bigtruckguy3500
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While I've never experienced it personally, I have seen it directly affect people I know. My understanding is that the ROTC detachment is tasked with producing line officers. If they start sending people out for education delays for professional school, their numbers drop. If they're already hitting their numbers they may not care, if they're low, they might. Multple people I knew who did ROTC at different schools have said the same thing: If professional school is the the primary goal, do not do ROTC.

I also know multiple people who did ROTC/the Academy, served their time as line officers, and came back as physicians.
Trinity Ag
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bigtruckguy3500 said:

While I've never experienced it personally, I have seen it directly affect people I know. My understanding is that the ROTC detachment is tasked with producing line officers. If they start sending people out for education delays for professional school, their numbers drop. If they're already hitting their numbers they may not care, if they're low, they might. Multple people I knew who did ROTC at different schools have said the same thing: If professional school is the the primary goal, do not do ROTC.

I also know multiple people who did ROTC/the Academy, served their time as line officers, and came back as physicians.
The number of Ed Delays A&M ROTC produces is 1-2 per year. It is not enough to matter for Cadet Command mission -- even if A&M were not over-producing, and the program does. And no Cadet at A&M is prevented from requesting an Ed Delay. If someone tells you different, they are wrong.

What other ROTCs may have done at different places at different times has no bearing on a current Cadet inquiring about options at Texas A&M.

Every case is different. If professional school is your primary goal -- and you view military service only as a means to that end -- then ROTC is probably not be right for you.
bigtruckguy3500
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So, I actually saw one case of this pushback at A&M, though it was not Army ROTC. In the end it worked out for the student, they just submitted their request for ed delay and it was approved. But the colonel in charge was legitimately upset with this student.

Also, just because professional school is someone's primary goal doesn't mean they have to view military service as a means to an end. Some people want to be JAGs, or part of a shock trauma platoon, etc., and going the ROTC route takes a certain amount of control over your fate out of your hands. For some, they'll easily be able to do their 4/8/12/20 years and then apply to professional school. For others, by that point life will just be too far progressed for them to go back to school.
clarythedrill
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If you are not a contracted Cadet, or a serious "seeking" Cadet, the Army ROTC department does not really give two hoots about you. If you want to be a PA or OT or something of that order, you would need to be contracted on a regular contract and taking the appropriate medical classes that support the medical degree. At the appropriate time, the Army ROTC department will help with the Education Delay process......we really don't mind if they get an Ed delay, Cadet Command produces enough to make mission, so delaying a very small fraction of Cadets is really no big deal.

What they may want to do is not contract or take ROTC courses until they are ready to start their Junior year, then become what is called a Lateral Entry Cadet, and go to Summer Basic Camp to make up for not taking the MS I and II courses. That way they can lay out for the ROTC program where they sit with regards to their medical classes and the ROO (Recruiting Operations Officer) can help them with a plan.

Now, if they want to compete for a scholarship, then they need to earn the scholly and then hope being granted an Ed delay at a later date. If the Ed delay is not granted, then they would branch whatever the Army needs them to be and off they go.

PS. Nurses contract as Army Nurses right off the bat, and do not compete for Nurse Corp at a later date. If their grades do not allow them to progress further into the Nursing program, determined by the Nursing program at the university, at the end of the Sophomore year, then they are switched to a line contract and will compete for branching with all other line contracted Cadets.

BLUF- asking for an Ed delay is not a big deal, we are happy to do so, so no need to worry about the ROTC department trying to screw them or force them into something they do not want.
Trinity Ag
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clarythedrill said:

If you are not a contracted Cadet, or a serious "seeking" Cadet, the Army ROTC department does not really give two hoots about you. If you want to be a PA or OT or something of that order, you would need to be contracted on a regular contract and taking the appropriate medical classes that support the medical degree. At the appropriate time, the Army ROTC department will help with the Education Delay process......we really don't mind if they get an Ed delay, Cadet Command produces enough to make mission, so delaying a very small fraction of Cadets is really no big deal.

What they may want to do is not contract or take ROTC courses until they are ready to start their Junior year, then become what is called a Lateral Entry Cadet, and go to Summer Basic Camp to make up for not taking the MS I and II courses. That way they can lay out for the ROTC program where they sit with regards to their medical classes and the ROO (Recruiting Operations Officer) can help them with a plan.

Now, if they want to compete for a scholarship, then they need to earn the scholly and then hope being granted an Ed delay at a later date. If the Ed delay is not granted, then they would branch whatever the Army needs them to be and off they go.

PS. Nurses contract as Army Nurses right off the bat, and do not compete for Nurse Corp at a later date. If their grades do not allow them to progress further into the Nursing program, determined by the Nursing program at the university, at the end of the Sophomore year, then they are switched to a line contract and will compete for branching with all other line contracted Cadets.


BLUF- asking for an Ed delay is not a big deal, we are happy to do so, so no need to worry about the ROTC department trying to screw them or force them into something they do not want.
All ROTC programs are different, but this is pretty accurate for A&M -- except the highlighted paragraph about Nursing. A&M does not have a nursing mission, and students here compete to enter the nursing program beginning their Junior years -- so A&M ROTC does not accept Nursing contracts right off the bat.

If you want to commission as an Army Nurse through ROTC at A&M, you need to join the Corps, take the prerequisite classes you need to be accepted into the Nursing program -- and get the grades required.

The few that we have had do this accepted Line contracts as Fish/Sophomores, and then they transferred into Nursing contracts after they were enrolled in the Nursing program.

This is NOT the normal way that Army ROTC Nursing works, but it is the only way to do it here.

Trinity Ag
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bigtruckguy3500 said:

So, I actually saw one case of this pushback at A&M, though it was not Army ROTC. In the end it worked out for the student, they just submitted their request for ed delay and it was approved. But the colonel in charge was legitimately upset with this student.


Army, Navy/Marines, and Air Force outfits in the Corps are more alike than different, but this is NOT at all true about the ROTC/commissioning processes, so folks should be careful about generalizing between them.

Army is most flexible, as we have the broadest mission and more local leeway for contracting and awarding scholarships. Army also grants more medical waivers than does Air Force -- which is extremely strict in my experience.

Although Army prioritizes stem, it is not nearly to the extent of Navy and Air Force. Most Marines commission through PLC, not ROTC. Although Air Force has increased its contracts to address the pilot shortage, they generally have half the number of available scholarships. If you don't arrive with a nationally awarded scholarship for Navy/Marines, "sideloads" are extremely hard to get -- and are awarded through a national process. Army can award them locally, and usually have many available to begin every semester.

So what happened in other ROTCs should not be extrapolated to the way Army views things like Ed Delay.


Quote:

Also, just because professional school is someone's primary goal doesn't mean they have to view military service as a means to an end. Some people want to be JAGs, or part of a shock trauma platoon, etc., and going the ROTC route takes a certain amount of control over your fate out of your hands. For some, they'll easily be able to do their 4/8/12/20 years and then apply to professional school. For others, by that point life will just be too far progressed for them to go back to school.
I never said they did. But plenty of Cadets DO see military service as a means to an end. They should be honest with themselves about their motives for entering the military.

If they want to be a doctor/PA first and foremost, and the military is simply a mechanism of paying for it, they need to understand that ROTC probably isn't a good choice, because of the possibility they don't get into PA school, and then have a service obligation they don't want.

If they want to serve, and want to be PA, then the program can support that. Whether they are successful or not is largely based on their personal performance in the class room and on the GRE/MCAT.
CharlieBrown17
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AG
Can confirm on Air Force med waivers.

Basically takes an act of God to get one.

I had to fight for ~ 15 months for a knee scope I had in high school and was fully cleared to play football on, run, lift, etc.
bigtruckguy3500
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Perhaps it's because I'm in the medical community I hear all the anecdotes, whether it is from ROTC, the academies, or from people having to switch services because their home service wouldn't give them an HPSP contract.
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