What's the deal with the non-Uniform Band Uniforms?

8,900 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Wildman15
HollywoodBQ
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I watched some of the halftime drill that one of the guys in my old outfit posted to Facebook. His perspective was field level and up close. In fact, you could see the tops of a couple of yell boys heads in his video.

The first thing that struck me was how the Class A jackets with a green belt instead of the old school "AA" white belt just looks like a giant sack of potatoes on the cadets.

The second thing that struck me was the uneven coat length which accentuated how wide some of the female cadets are. Which in turn led me to realize that the females aren't wearing the same uniform as the males. I'm sure this has been going on for years and I probably just now noticed. But from the point of view that my band-mates video showed, the non-uniformity of the uniforms looked really bad.

This picture I found on Instagram only has male senior cadets so the coat length is OK but a white belt sure would make that uniform look a little less blah.
https://instagr.am/p/BbX0YadlzcT

I was able to find this video on YouTube of a march-in from November 2016 which illustrates the differences in coat length and appearance for the female cadets in particular. The Aggie Band marches by about 30 seconds into the video. Note: I'm not bashing female cadets (as was the norm back in my day), I'm just saying that having them wear different uniforms doesn't look good for uniformity sake and frankly, it draws unnecessary attention to their gender.


I thought about maybe using the different jackets to try to offset the average height differences between males and females but, I noticed a male French Horn player who must be about 4'6" (I'm not even joking). The bottom of his jacket is at least a foot below the female tuba player in front of him.

Hopefully we can re-think the winter band uniforms to make them more uniform. I would like us to look better than the Highty Tighties for example.
Ordhound04
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Female cadets, to my knowledge, have always worn a shorter class A jacket.

Could just give everyone Ike jackets........

I want to say pretty much all military uniforms have a shorter class a jacket for female enlisted/officer uniforms. May not be waistcoat short, but still shorter.

May also have to do with the quality of the material as well. In my day, the class A jacket had a rented tux quality to them, and alterations after the fact were prohibited.
ABATTBQ87
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Bq white belts are a thing of the past; and I still don't understand why band lyres are not worn on the lapels under the AMU
HollywoodBQ
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ABATTBQ87 said:

Bq white belts are a thing of the past; and I still don't understand why band lyres are not worn on the lapels under the AMU
In the march-in video I posted, it looks like they are wearing band lyres under the AMU on the lapel.

Also, after watching that video again, it looks like there are no belts on the Class A jacket at all. I guess I'll have to find some time to do a closer inspection of the Class A Winter uniform.
HollywoodBQ
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Ordhound04 said:

Female cadets, to my knowledge, have always worn a shorter class A jacket.

Could just give everyone Ike jackets........

I want to say pretty much all military uniforms have a shorter class a jacket for female enlisted/officer uniforms. May not be waistcoat short, but still shorter.

May also have to do with the quality of the material as well. In my day, the class A jacket had a rented tux quality to them, and alterations after the fact were prohibited.
In the old days, the females all wore the male jacket for performances. In fact, they also wore male pants which fit terribly (as a general rule).

Short or Long doesn't really matter as much as looking the same. i.e. "Uniform"
BQ_90
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HollywoodBQ said:

ABATTBQ87 said:

Bq white belts are a thing of the past; and I still don't understand why band lyres are not worn on the lapels under the AMU
In the march-in video I posted, it looks like they are wearing band lyres under the AMU on the lapel.

Also, after watching that video again, it looks like there are no belts on the Class A jacket at all. I guess I'll have to find some time to do a closer inspection of the Class A Winter uniform.
it looked like the fish didn't have anything, but upperclass had lyres.
ABATTBQ87
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Quote:

it looked like the fish didn't have anything, but upperclass had lyres.
That's probably correct since the fish don't achieve their band lyre after the first perfect drill but after they are awarded corps brass
AgBQ-00
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I don't know when it changed but it does look terrible.
BQ_90
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ABATTBQ87 said:


Quote:

it looked like the fish didn't have anything, but upperclass had lyres.
That's probably correct since the fish don't achieve their band lyre after the first perfect drill but after they are awarded corps brass

But they'd have it by the time they worn winter As wouldn't they, or do,they only get it,when the CT get there's
aggiejim70
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What I'd like to see is a return to White Sam Brown belts the FTAB used in my time in the FTAB. I have to add those leather one's were a pain in the butt to polish, and as a drummer, I didn't have to wear one. Had to bum one from a classmate for the outfit Aggieland photo.

Also, one of you younger BQ's please refresh my memory. Wasn't the Class A jacket out of the inventory for a while prior to Gen. Ramirez becoming commandant?
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
chickencoupe16
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Yes it was. Brought them back in the fall of 2012.

Edit: Not a Q... BTHO the band!
Warrior 66
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When I became Commandant in 2010, the Corps had NO Class A coat. All cadets had been issued "Midnights," and that was the "dress uniform" at the time. Class A coats were NOT part of the cadet uniform inventory at the time.

Thanks to financial support from the VPSA's office, we hired a company (Fechheimer) to design a new Class A Coat for the cadets, modeled after the Classic WWII coat the Corps had worn for decades as part of the "Pinks and Browns" uniform. Part of that design included creating a female coat, just like the military does, instead of taking a male coat and putting it on a female.

By 2012 we got the Class A coats and issued them to the entire Corps - including the female coat. We also made the midnights a white belt uniform option only - just as it was when I was a cadet.

The overwhelming response to the Class A coat has been very positive - including the female coat. Yeah, the female coat is a little shorter and a different cut, but so are female Class A coats in the military. At least we have a female coat for females, and not a male coat that we put on females.

I can't speak for the white leather "Sam Brown" belts that have been worn off and on by the Aggie Band over the years. During my time in the Aggie Band (75-79) we never wore white belts - we wore the brown ones. The Drum and Bugle Corps wore white belts, but the Aggie Band as a whole wore the brown belts. I know the white belts came back after I left for a while, but once again, when I returned as Commandant, there were no white leather belts worn in the Aggie Band.

Hope this answers your concerns about the Class A coat, Hollywood. Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any further questions. For me, I am very happy to have the Class A uniform back in the Corps again. Its a good looking uniform, and its truly a "throwback" to "Ol' Army!" The US Army even took some of our uniforms as they began looking at the design for the new Class A uniform for the Army, that may be a return to the classic WWII "Pinks and Browns" - VERY similar to what our cadets wear in the Corps today!

Thanks for your love and support of our Corps! Gig 'em!
74OA
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Interesting. Very surprised there was no Class A coat for a while. Seems an essential step up in dress for many occasions.

Here's what the Army is looking at: Pinks and Greens I think the bottom pockets on their proposed female version make such a short coat too busy and both their and our female coats could be just a tiny bit longer to avoid riding so high on the hips like an Ike Jacket.
AgBQ-00
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Very glad to have the class A coats back in the Corps. Just wish the band's coats were uniform between male and female for performances and had a return of the white fabric belts. It really helps the uniform look better for viewing at a distance. For formal functions the gender specific coats are fantastic.
HollywoodBQ
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Commandant - thanks for the explanation. I do remember seeing the band in midnights and remembering that it did not look as good as I had expected it would when I was a cadet and me and some buddies were wargaming scenarios like - "What if the whole band wore midnights? Yeah, that would be awesome, good idea. Yeah, we should totally do that".

I've been away from Texas for a while and haven't had any family members in the A&M Corps of Cadets for 20+ years so, I didn't know all the machinations behind the uniform changes. I knew they were wearing midnights sometime in the 2000s but I didn't realize that the Class A jacket had completely gone away during that time period. Also, I think many of my College Station trips, or away games during the past 15+ years must have been while the band was in the summer uniform.

A funny aside about the summer uniforms. In my era, everybody hated the pink pants and bider. The Corps Staff was in charge of deciding when we switched from summers to winters and back. The Class of 1993 hated the pink pants so much that they stayed in summers the entire year. Also, doing a little research on what I'm about to share, I found the Aggie Band performance from the 2006 Holiday Bowl in San Diego (another game that I shouldn't have attended because we got blown out by Cal) and they're in summers so I guess that year they must have hated the winter uniform too.

In the late 90s when I was working in Austin, I spent a year on a two person team working very closely together on a work project. My teammate was a hard core man hating lesbian in her 50s. She explained to me the importance of different clothing for different genders and the importance of daughters having a strong father figure present in their lives. I've never forgotten either of those lessons. After that experience, I've also never forgotten that I'm a maaaaaaaannnnnn (in a derogatory context). Anyway, her complaint about the clothing stemmed from the fact that our employer would issue us corporate logo golf shirts that they expected us to wear and they were always men's cut shirts. I'd get an earful every time they gave us a new shirt.

So, I understand the need for different uniforms for different genders. As a regular course of uniform wear, that's fine. It's good that the Corps mirrors what the regular military does. What I'm specifically focused on in this context is the attire for an Aggie Band performance.

The Corps of Cadets example that is the closest parallel I can think of is the fact that Parson's Mounted Cavalry doesn't have a separate female uniform that they wear for march-ins, parades, etc. They just wear old timey midnights and everybody looks the same (uniform).



There seems to be some confusion about Sam Brown belts versus the White Belts that we wore around the Class A jacket in the 1980s-2000s. Here is a picture that I found which appears to be from the 2006 t.u. game which shows the Aggie Band in the Class A jacket with the white cotton belt (which was a hassle to keep clean BTW).



I also found this video of the 1990 Holiday Bowl which has several clips of the Aggie Band wearing the white cotton belts with their class A uniform. The first one is just after the 20 second mark. There is a close up of the woodwind section in the stands at the 6:35 mark including the late Todd Thoele '91. And just after the 11:45 mark, there's a shot that includes Sherri Reid '94 (the first female to make it through B-Company). Anyway, the point is that these uniforms all look consistently the same.



So, that was background just to explain what the Class A jacket with white belt looked like.

I was curious to see what the US Army does with their bands. It looks like they have one consistent look for marching and then one slight variation for concerts. For concerts where the band is seated, it looks like females have the option to wear a floor length skirt and heels. But when they're marching, they wear a female cut uniform that looks exactly like the male uniform.

Here's the Army Band marching uniform. I took these pictures from the US Army Band Flickr account.



In formation, you have to look really closely at the hair length on the back of the head to distinguish between the genders.





Here's the floor length skirt for concerts which frankly I think looks pretty sharp.



Anyway, I'm not saying that we need to have a performance uniform and look like the Show Band of the Southwest down from that little orange school in Austin. I'm just saying that we should consider having a special Game Day or Parade - Band uniform where everybody in the band wears a uniform that looks the same. I figure given present day enrollment numbers, we're probably talking about a need for maybe 150 more male jackets to be issued to female cadets exclusively for the purpose of performances where the Aggie Band marches in formation.

If cost is a concern, I'm sure we can raise the money for it. To quote Coach Jackie Sherrill when he spoke at the 2010 Muster in Long Beach, "Why, when I found out the Band wasn't goin' to all the games, it didn't take no time to raise the money".

I'll be in College Station this Friday night/Saturday morning (Polo Grounds). I'll give you a call then (I just looked at my phone to make sure I had your number. I've got you listed with the first name of BG). If we can work it out, I would like you to meet some of my family and a couple other families some of whom you've probably already met.

Gig 'Em

And whatever we do to emulate the US Army, let's don't have hats like this for our Drum Majors.

OldArmy71
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As a former CT, I like the white belts!
74OA
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There's already enough of a gap between the Band and the rest of the Corps (e.g. the planned off-Quad Band dorm) without creating separate uniforms as well.
bco2003
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74OA said:

(e.g. the planned off-Quad Band dorm)

You're not referring to the new band hall (not dorm) on Duncan Field are you?
74OA
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bco2003 said:

74OA said:

(e.g. the planned off-Quad Band dorm)

You're not referring to the new band hall (not dorm) on Duncan Field are you?
The latest Campus Master Plan shows a new Band dorm which will eventually go in adjacent to the new drill field and Music Center. The Commandant has also made reference to it. ALSO
jbeaman88
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You can find more than a few close-up pictures of the current Class-A uniform in this album from Saturday's review and the New Mexico game.
HollywoodBQ
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Thanks for the link to the Corps March-In pix.

That solved the piece of detail I couldn't make out in the video. So... the current male Class A uniform does have the traditional green belt. Giving females the male jacket for Aggie Band performances would also give them some place to put their cell phone as evidenced by the two fish Joneses in this picture.



As far as the white cotton belt for the jacket. Probably $100 at JoAnn's Fabrics would get us at least halfway there. Otherwise, steal one from the USMC uniform.

TangoMike
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Only the 3 permanent Army bands wear those uniforms (USMA Band, TRADOC Band at Fort Story VA, and Pershing's Own at Fort McNair), if I remember correctly. The permanent bands aren't really Soldiers as they come straight in as SSGs with no basic training. They only wear those goofy band uniforms for official VIP performances. The rest of the time they wear typical Army blue jackets (which have different female coats), the only difference is they have white stripes on their pants instead of gold stripes.
Rabid Cougar
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Tribe2013 said:

Only the 3 permanent Army bands wear those uniforms (USMA Band, TRADOC Band at Fort Story VA, and Pershing's Own at Fort McNair), if I remember correctly. The permanent bands aren't really Soldiers as they come straight in as SSGs with no basic training. They only wear those goofy band uniforms for official VIP performances. The rest of the time they wear typical Army blue jackets (which have different female coats), the only difference is they have white stripes on their pants instead of gold stripes.
U.S. Army musicians are highly accomplished musicians unto themselves. You have to go through several tryouts just to get accepted. Marine Corps is the same way except true to Marine Corps tradition, everyone is a rifleman. They have to complete basic. Had a high school classmate that went that route.

They are phasing a lot of the Army's regional bands out as too costly.Fort Sam's band being phased out.
TangoMike
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Rabid Cougar said:

Tribe2013 said:

Only the 3 permanent Army bands wear those uniforms (USMA Band, TRADOC Band at Fort Story VA, and Pershing's Own at Fort McNair), if I remember correctly. The permanent bands aren't really Soldiers as they come straight in as SSGs with no basic training. They only wear those goofy band uniforms for official VIP performances. The rest of the time they wear typical Army blue jackets (which have different female coats), the only difference is they have white stripes on their pants instead of gold stripes.
U.S. Army musicians are highly accomplished musicians unto themselves. You have to go through several tryouts just to get accepted. Marine Corps is the same way except true to Marine Corps tradition, everyone is a rifleman. They have to complete basic. Had a high school classmate that went that route.

They are phasing a lot of the Army's regional bands out as too costly.Fort Sam's band being phased out.
Yes, the members of the permanent bands are real professional musicians and the bar to get in is very high. They aren't real Soldiers, though, and they'll happily say the same about themselves. They don't go to basic, they never PCS, they are exempt from most AR 350-1/2 training (weapons qualification, etc), they enter service as an SSG, they get a special annual bonus pay, and are eligible for promotion (100% promotion rate unless you get a DUI) to SFC after 2 years.
Wildman15
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Good memories wearing that coat. Hot in the summer, cold in the winter
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