I feel like this Board is a little more useful than the general board. Maybe you guys can help.

My grandfather owned many Fully automatic weapons as a collector. He has passed away many years ago but I would like to keep some of the weapons myself. They have stayed in the house that my aunt owns. I have always been told that the guns can't even move from the house because of so many laws in place. No real desire to shoot them considering it is a hot subject at the moment in politics.

Any suggestions on how I could obtain these? I have looked at ATF web site but got a little overwhelmed. Would it be a good idea to talk to a lawyer first or go to champions firearms in cstat and just ask them?

Ask the outdoor board, talk to a lawyer, and / or STFU and don't talk talk about dheet

Don't talk to anyone, sure as hell quit posting, scrub the posts above, and get to a lawyer.

As the other two have said.

Legally? Call Texas Law Shield and get an NFA trust made in order to transfer the weapons.

What should you really do? Delete your post and never speak of this again.

[This message has been edited by mickeyrig06sq3 (edited 2/6/2013 4:46p).]

Just takem and use them when the need arises, which will happen in the future. You start registering and you won't have them anylonger.

Molan Labe

1st of all, I'm hoping they were registered before the ban. If not, they aren't legal and never will be unless they are made semi-auto. If they were registered, the new owner (whoever received them in the estate) needs to do a transfer, you'll have to check on which form with the ATF. Cost $200 for each gun I believe, but well worth it if you ever want to sell them. If that person isn't you, they will then need to be transferred to you.

A pre-ban legal full auto is worth probably $20k depending on a few things. A non legal full auto is worth about $10k fine and 10 years.

If you find out they aren't legal, I'd suggest making them semi quickly and do it very quietly. If you need help, I can help you with the modifications that will have to be made. Ag1985 at y a h o o

I would heavily suggest you contact a real gun trust lawyer that makes them for a living. This could actually turn out horrible for you and your aunt depending on certain circumstances. If the firearms are regestered to your late grandpa, and are now in possession of your aunt, then that could not fair well for her Im afraid. On the flip side if the firearms were never registered at all that could be equally horrible for whoever is in possession of them. I know my Grandpa used to own two old full auto M16s back in the day. He told me that the full auto stuff was pretty easy to obtain back in the day. Most of it unregestered.

David Goldman out of Florida is an attorney that I have spoken with on numerous occasions. He's a really nice guy and he returns emails and phone calls with no problem. If you threw him a few bucks he would guide you through the whole process.

So there was no will or bequeathment of any kind?

I'm not intimately familiar with it, but I think where there's a will, it's a tax free "Form 5" process. (still take around 6 months. Damn ATF)

quote:

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In a number of situations, an NFA item may be transferred without a transfer tax. These include sales to government agencies, temporary transfers of an NFA firearm to a gunsmith for repairs, and transfer of an NFA firearm to a lawful heir after the death of its owner.[citation needed] A permanent transfer, even if tax-free, must be approved by the ATF. The proper form should be submitted to ATF before the transfer occurs. For example, lawful heirs must submit a Form 5 and wait for approval before taking possession of any NFA item willed to them.

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Sounds like you weren't bequeathed these via a will, so I'm guessing you need to establish whether they registered (there should be an approved Form 4 with a tax stamp for each one), who the legal heir is, and then start the transfer process. You CAN NOT take possession w/o the tax stamp.

Penalties for breaking NFA laws are pretty stiff, so make sure you get it sorted out the right way.

Good luck! And would love to hear progress!

Hey I ran across this thread today on another fourm and remembered *your* thread.... don't know if it helps or not, but hope so

quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike of Distinction Arms, FFL/SOT
The usual LE or museum response is to register any MG with an unknown history that they come across on a Form 10.

DO NOT EVER USE A FORM 10 FOR ANYTHING.

There are two reasons for this:

1. Once on a Form 10, that gun is 100% completely and totally NON-transferable. I know of one case where a .410 H&R Handy Gun was put on a Form 10 once it was donated to a PD. Guess what papers we found THREE WEEKS LATER? Yup, the original 1968 amnesty registration paperwork.

Yes, thank God that it wasn't a machine gun. But still, a formerly transferable piece of history is now even more restricted than a post-86 DS MG.

2. A Form 10 is for registration BY the PD. Non-PD use of the form isn't legitimate. Furthermore, since it's the form used to register an otherwise contraband firearm, you're essentially admitting to the feds that you have a contraband firearm. It is generally poor practice to admit to a federal law enforcement agency that you're in violation of any law, much less a felony-level law.

Okay, moving away from the F10, anybody who finds themselves in possession of a potentially undocumented firearm is in a legally precarious situation. I am NOT an attorney, nor do I claim to be one. This is not legal advice.

So what am I? I am a SOT who hates seeing history destroyed, restricted through F10 registration, or simply driven underground unnecessarily.

Let me say this a second time: It's not proper for me to offer legal advice because I am not an attorney.

This is what many of my clients have done:

1. They put the firearm away. It doesn't go out, doesn't go to shoots, and nobody is told about the firearm or firearms' existence.

2. They search through each sheet of paper, under every rock, behind every drawer (TWO sets of papers were found behind or under drawers in old dressers), etc. Remember that registration forms are tax papers. Many folks filed them with their old taxes, not with their gun stuff. So don't just dump your deceased relatives' ancient taxes! Search, search, SEARCH. Treat this like looking for a lost winning lottery ticket. In a way, it IS–– find papers and suddenly a weird questionable gun becomes very, very valuable.

3. The search continues. This search part is put in twice because my previous clients spent twice the time searching. They tore into that attic, the garage, and through every individual file in every file cabinet, in every sock and junk drawer... THEY SPENT GREAT TIME AND TOOK GREAT CARE.

One other point- while it's helpful to look for a strange "stamped" legal document, NOT EVERYTHING WAS STAMPED. Your relative may have papered that gun as a DEWAT, or "deactivated war trophy." Those transfer TAX FREE. No tax means no stamp. Or, if it was live, it could have been papered during the 1968 Amnesty. I don't believe that those 1968 amnesty forms had stamps either. Finally, the old stamp may have fallen off over time. So while it is helpful to "look for a form with a stamp," you and your well-meaning helpers could inadvertently toss the registration papers aside because they are unstamped. This is going to take TIME. My successful clients STOPPED, READ, AND ANALYZED EVERYTHING.

4. Okay, so no papers? And you've searched? REALLY searched? Like looking for a misplaced winning lottery ticket searched? The next step most people take is to contact a helpful SOT and/or a NFA-FRIENDLY attorney. Look, there are plenty of attorneys out there. Too many! You do NOT want to pick an attorney who just wants rid of the firearm or, worse yet, an anti-freedom anti-firearm attorney. A friendly SOT may be able to give recommendations. Or ask on firearms-friendly web boards. My clients had no need to tell the whole story–– they just asked for a "gun friendly attorney - bonus for one who is into NFA/Class III or knows more about that." With any luck, you'll get to meet one who even has a few NFA items of their own! Any how, once you get to meet with the attorney or that friendly SOT (do NOT take the firearm to their office!), folks fully explain the situation. They ask that attorney or that friendly SOT to help contact ATF to determine if the firearm is papered. FAMILIES NEVER DO THE CONTACTING THEMSELVES.

The friendly SOT and/or attorney will call ATF's NFA Branch. They will give the firearm's make, model, type (MG, SBR, DD, etc.) AND COMPLETE SERIAL NUMBER. ATF will punch this into their computer. If it's registered, hooray! If not, there's a problem.

5. Assuming the firearm is NOT registered, wise families repeat steps #2 and #3. ATF lost plenty of registrations over the years. Should the family find the paperwork, they can prove that it's registered, fix the registry, and life is good. If there's still no paperwork (and the family really, REALLY put your heart and soul into #2 and #3), the firearm is contraband. Contraband can be donated to an acceptable museum or government entity. Some folks have been able to claim a tax write-off. If no one wants the firearm, most folks completely strip the receiver of all parts. The receiver is then either surrendered, torch-cut, or otherwise destroyed.

6. Families who find paperwork generally have to treat the firearm in accordance with any will. If someone is named in the will, that person gets that firearm tax-free on a Form 5. ATF bends over backwards to help estates with the disposition of legally papered firearms. No, seriously! It's in their (ATF's) best interests to do this to keep the firearm from ending up at a yard sale or sold randomly at a gun show. That said, most families find it in their best interests to keep that SOT handy to assist with the sale, the necessary paperwork, etc. And if nobody is named in a will, the firearm will transfer on a tax-paid Form 4 or, if a DEWAT, on a tax-free Form 5.

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[This message has been edited by Boozoo (edited 2/12/2013 10:26a).]

WOAH. Brewer, not one thing so far has proven these guns to be illegal.