I was having a discussion with another former cadet Saturday night about guidon bearers in the Corps and we both have some interesting perspective that I was hoping to discuss here.

Both of us transferred to A&M from USAFA, and I also served on active duty as an enlisted airman.

As I'm sure most, if not all, former cadet know, being the guidon bearer is the highest honor you can get as a pisshead. The guidon itself is to be fiercely guarded, and any person who touches it either gets a beatdown or smoking. Bottom line is that the guidon is a big deal in the Corps.

Contrast that with USAFA. At USAFA, the guidons are displayed on the wall in the hallway of the dorm, completely unsecured. Theoretically, anyone could walk in and take it. Being selected guidon bearer is a total boof, and being selected as such is defintely not an honor, and is far from desirable for any sophomore cadet.

On active duty, guidon bearer duties were relegated to whichever sucker wasn't smart enough to not be around when they are looking for someone to do it. In basic training it was slightly prestigious, but involved a lot more work and was a total time screw that left your buddies picking up the slack for you in the barracks if you were (un)lucky enough to get guidon duty.

I'm just curious if anyone has any perspective that might shed some light on why things are so different at A&M when it comes to being the guidon bearer.

From what I have heard the GB position used to be the ***tty position and somewhere along the way it got transformed into the position for the most redass, squared away fish.

There's no more high-porting from what I have seen nor does it seem to go to the most squared away fish/PH anymore.

Of course that depends on the outfit.

[This message has been edited by HBCanine08 (edited 1/17/2012 12:22p).]

I've always wondered how it started too. I was a guidon bearer both in the Corps and at Basic, and needless to say it was two different worlds. I do know that we're not the only military organizations that take the Guidon so seriously. I met cadets from MMI and a few other smaller military schools at LDAC, and they said the guidon carries the same weight and prestige at their schools as it does at A&M.

I've always had a theory that it was a method of making the fish look forward to something for the next year, since pisshead year is barely better than fish year in most outfits. I know that as rough as Guidon tryouts were for me and my buddies, it made the second semester fly by and gave us all reason to look forward to next year.



[This message has been edited by AnimalA10 (edited 1/17/2012 12:23p).]

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since pisshead year is barely better than fish year in most outfits

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PH year was the year I started getting gray hairs. Just as bad, if not worse, than fish year. Still loved it though.

I was the GB at field training during the first few days, and took a lot of flak for how I looked after the guidon. I fell out with it for PT the first morning and was the only GB carrying one. The CTOs were like WTF. Apparently they didn't know you could still do push-ups and secure it at the same time.

[This message has been edited by Zip 88 (edited 1/17/2012 12:58p).]

Probably has something to do with history. Historically the guidon bearer was a position of huge honor and responsibility. This was back in the days when guidon bearers actually led infantry assaults and everyone was either following it or trying to capture it. The guidon WAS the unit's identity and there was no way in hell that they would entrust it to an incompetent. I could see how the Corps would follow in this type of tradition while the USAFA frankly has never marched into battle under a flag. So they don't have that connection or emotion about it. In the USMC our guidons followed us everywhere and were objects of great honor. I never even contemplated that someone would think indifferently about a guidon till you mentioned it. All the way up till the day I left I treated our guidon with reverence and respect. Back in boot camp it was a life or death thing. that guidon was our platoon and we protected with our bodies and fists when other platoons would try to take it.

Just my $.02

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From what I have heard the GB position used to be the ***tty position and somewhere along the way it got transformed into the position for the most redass, squared away fish.

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I've heard this too, but several Ags on here going back to at least the 60's have said otherwise. Assuming this to be true though, my thoughts on it was the somewhere along the way a crappy fish resented the fact that he was given it, and he squared himself away over the summer and decided to give it to the best fish the next year.

When I was there, I'd see some outfits give it to the fish that could high port the longest, some would give it to the one who was the meanest and could smoke the fish the hardest, some to who seemed as though they wanted it the most, and some would give it to a combination.

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PH year was the year I started getting gray hairs.

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My PH year wasn't too bad, but junior and senior year was just horrible. And I don't care what anyone says, fish year is the easiest. Just take care of your brass, your low quarters, know your campos, make sure your buddies do the same, and that's it!

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I fell out with it for PT the first morning and was the only GB carrying one. The CTOs were like WTF.

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This made me laugh. Did you high port it at all?

You know, I think I did because I was so conditioned to, but it has been a while. I'm pretty sure that that would have been to only instance. I went before my Zip year, and I don't think they appreciated the fact that all the Ags there were more squared away than everybody else.

[This message has been edited by Zip 88 (edited 1/17/2012 3:43p).]

I was the GB in tech school and I PT'd with it. (before I went to A&M)

I found in my years in the Corps, many of the worst jobs were up-sold as being redass.

I also never understood why only a former guidon bearer or candidate for it as a fish was allowed to touch the thing.

The freaking dry cleaner had to touch it to clean it, and the guidon bearer's parents touched it, but as a platoon leader as a zip, technically I wasn't allowed to touch it. Just dumb.

Shoot, even the guidon candidates were allowed to ignore all upperclassmen if they were "doing guidon candidate" details.

I changed that my zip year by crapping out all of the former guidon candidate pissheads and surge butts that enforced that. I didn't crap out the fish candidates because they were doing what they were told, but I eventually got the policy changed b/c the 'heads and 'butts got tired of being smoked for the fish ignoring my zip buddies.

"The best social program is a job."
-Ronald Reagan

http://www.marchforbabies.com/

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while the USAFA frankly has never marched into battle under a flag

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Never has there been a more truthful statement on TexAgs - ever!

In USMC boot camp, it's a big deal. At first, they have to try people out, but by the end of the 12 weeks, the guy carrying it is the platoon honor man (went along with a meritorious promotion). Ours was a 25 year old college graduate who was going straight to OCS after his MOS school (used to have a program back then that sent you through enlisted boot, MOS, then OCS in that sequence). One of my best friends was the platoon honor man/guidon bearer for his platoon.

GBer was picked from the best drilled and sharpest fish. Usually the fish with the best grades and gunho. This was the road to oufit sergent and usually CO.

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This was the road to oufit sergent and usually CO.

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Was

I was not a GB when I was a Pisshead, but when I went to ROTC Advance Camp, I would take it during PT. The other cadets were astonished when I would High Port our platoon Guidon during runs. It was funny.

As a commander in the Army, my guidon sat in a stand the battalion welders made outside the door of the company. Unguarded. It went to the field, where it would be stuck in the dirt by my track. Unguarded. It went to Iraq, where it was stuck in the dirt outside the CP. Unguarded. Nobody touched it, because it wasn't theirs. While I always had a squared-away SPC for the bearer (my gunner), if he wasn't around the 1SG or PSGs would just pick any random non-fat Joe to hold it for formation.

Everyone touched it. When I left for the day, whatever random Joe was on CQ would go out and bring it in for the night. It was the UNIT's guidon, not just one kid's (like it is in the Corps).

Okay..I will chime in now although I resisted it early on. Most of you have probably figured out by now that I am one of the "bulls" everyone refers to. I was enlisted Army and when I was a PFC in the mighty 82nd Airborne (best division in the world)I was the A Co 2-325 guidon bearer. Yes, a position of some prestige, but anyone could do guidon duties if I wasn't present. When I arrived to Aggieland in '04, I kept wondering why all the guidon bearers were being "punished" with high porting. Of course I found out later that it was the way it was carried in the Corps. I thought it was odd. High porting has been banned now because of all the shoulder injuries sustained throughout the years. Since becoming a CTO, I have tried to impress upon the guidon bearers the real meaning behind that flag. I tell them it is not the "Holy Grail" that cannot be touched by anyone else.

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I also never understood why only a former guidon bearer or candidate for it as a fish was allowed to touch the thing.

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This quote rings so true with me. This attitude has made it so that the fish either fear or despise the guidon...which is totally opposite of what it should be. It is still a work in progress on the quad right now. I just keep plugging away and impress upon the guidon bearers the true meaning behind the cherished outfit flag. With that...I say Hooah!