I have generally been under the impression that the Air Force promotes really quickly, while the Marines promote very slowly (Army & Navy in the middle). Has anyone actually done a study on this?

Yea, during ILE I asked all these dudes..even from other countries...about how they promote. It all evens out for the most part, but other countries have even longer times for their junior grade.

Anyhow, what does make a huge difference is the number of people or basic amount of responsibility officers are put in charge of in the Marines/Army vs AF/Navy..

Don't want to turn this into a **** measuring contest. There is value to how the AF/Navy run their business, and it isn't numbers oriented to mass.

Navy promotion is...
ENS (O-1) to LTJG (O-2) is 2 years
LTJG to LT (O-3) is 2 years
LT to LCDR (O-4) is about 6-7 but I won't go past LT so I never cared past that


[This message has been edited by Rev_86 (edited 8/27/2011 12:48a).]

I have not found that to be the case by my own observation. DOPMA controls the promotion points for officers in all services pretty closely.

I wasn't only talking about officers, btw. It seems to take a comparatively long time for an enlisted Marine to make E-5, for example.

The Marines seem to be a relatively "flat" organization, with more people competing for each slot. The Air Force seems to be pretty top heavy by comparison.

Just wondering if that perception was accurate in light of any published statistics.

I know our (C17) loadmasters get promoted basically on a schedule. They complete their beans, test, and get promoted. The loadmaster force isn't really set up to require them to be held back to fill certain ranks.

But that's a small part of the Air Force enlisted, obviously.

For me (AF officer, pilot) I get promoted automatically at 2 yrs to 1LT and then get automatically promoted 2 yrs after that to Capt. Technically AF is only promoting 95% of 1LT to Captain, but everyone who's rated is getting promoted.

Navy enlisted guys are promoted depending on how open their rates are. But it also depends on evals and their in rate test scores. Sometimes the best sailors won't promote because their rates are not open. My theory is that the navy is fat with E-7 - E-9 that aren't retiring...

Ulysses90 has it right...DOPMA & ROPMA (for reserves) keeps all the services on a basic equal basis with regard to promotion. It hit me back when it first went into effect as I was on fast track to O3 and ended up getting held back a year. Similar thing happened when I was enlisted...was up for E6 under 4 years but new rules made wait until 6 years TIS.
When I retired in 2008, Navy officer promotion was
O1 to O2 was automatic (unless you really hosed up) in 24 mod
O2 to O3 auto (again if you weren't FUBAR) in 24 mo
O3 to O4 was 4 to 6 years depending on NOBC/DESIG & FITREP
O4 to O5 was 5 to 7 years
O5 to O6 was 5 to 7 years
Lee72
CAPT USN (Ret)

Speaking from personal experience the Marines are the worst. I was an E-3 for 2 and a half years. And I had a stellar record. Officers would come to me to teach Battalion level classes and my PT was the best score possible. The problem was I was in the arguably worst MOS to pick up. I was an 0351(Infantry Assault). 90% of the time I was eligible for pickup the MOS was closed. I ended up discharging still an E-3 but with the highest cutting score in the division. I left the Marine Corps with a 1877 cutting score......but still an E-3. I remember the INSTANT I was transferred to the IRR I picked up immediately. I also remember when I was going over reenlistment opportunities the POG was actually like, "I see you haven't picked up and it's hard to go 03 as an E-3....." Yeah I almost assaulted him. So yes IMO the Corps is the hardest for certain MOS's.

I'd agree that it depends on MOS in the Marines. Ive been in 6 years and I'm in the zone for SSgt this year. I've seen some guys get SSgt in 5 and some get out after 8 as a Cpl.

*Disclaimer- I'm a POG ass Winger

Sorry, Guys. I made 1stLt in the USAF after 6 months of active duty !!!!!

Turns out to my surprise, 8 years of inactive Navy and AF reserves qualified me for this special rule ( which I had never heard of ). I took the extra $100 or so, put on the silver bar and never looked back!

I see USAF O-6s that don't look a day over 30....

Army:

2LT - 1LT: 18 months
1LT - CPT: 24 months
CPT - MAJ: 60-72 months
MAJ - LTC: 60-72 months
LTC - COL: 60-72 months

I thought I was a hotshot highly technical trained E-4 in the air force in Germany. I had been on active duty a little over 3 years.

One afternoon I was talking to an Army truck driver, who was waiting for our guys to load his truck. He told me this was his last trip as his tour was over. He was a Spec 5. I asked him how long he had been in the Army. He told me that he was a draftee (two year commitment).

I didn't say a word but in the Air Force there were guys just finishing their schooling at two years and they were only E-3's!
I was jealous.

This was in 1966.

"I'd agree that it depends on MOS in the Marines."

Seems like infantry and Amtracs are a time warp (in a bad way) for promotions in the Marines.

I figured I's throw this in, not that anybody cares.

Aviation Warrant (new system)
WO1-> CW2 36 Months
CW2-> CW3 72 Months
CW3-> CW4 72 Months
CW4-> CW5 72 Months, maybe

for the old system (i.e. a month ago, just knock 12 months off the promotion times)

quote:

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"I'd agree that it depends on MOS in the Marines."

Seems like infantry and Amtracs are a time warp (in a bad way) for promotions in the Marines.

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The Marine Corps' enlisted promotion system is abysmal at retaining the most talented Marines and instead focuses on retaining the most talented Marines within specific MOS communities. The dilemma that the Corps faces is training and MOS experience. The most outstanding 0369 SSgt **may be** more talented in many areas such as leadership skills, physical fitness, tactical intuition (resulting from experience in his infantry MOS) and superior (or lets just say equal) in those traits to his a counterpart 0691 SSgt Comm chief. However, the 0369 SSgt cannot become the 0691 Gunnery Sergeant Comm Chief. When the Corps needs an 0691 Gunnery Sergeant and the population of 0691 SSgts offers a constrained choice of whom to promote they promote the best that they have. The Corps cannot retrain the 0369 and impart to him the MOS technical expertise that the 0691 SSgt has because of the additional time and money required. The school house instructors and technical mentorship required of the 0691 Gunny cannot be synthesized by redesignating an 0369 SSgt and promoting him.

The MOS communities that promote the fastest are the ones that bleed their most talented into the civilian job market. It is a pretty poor 0691 that cannot find gainful employment in his area of expertise upon leaving the military. That's not the case with the combat arms specialities unless one is willing to work overseas for Xe, DynCorp, or similar security companies or domestically for a much lower salary. The culling of the population in the combat arms MOS that takes place after the first term of enlistment and again after the second hitch results in a lot of talented leaders hunting desperately (at least in the current recession) for employment and the skills necessary to find a civilian sector job.

To sum it up in a generalization the Corps rewards technical specialization in the enlisted ranks far more than it does in the officer corps where broad and generalizable skills are rewarded. The Corps discards a lot of talent that come from specialties for which the rank pyramid has no need to promote. I don't know how to remedy that and still retain and promote the low density specialties that we must have going forward. Congress does not allow us the time and money to re-train but a small portion of the good leaders in other technical specialties.

Good insight, Ulysses.