CanyonAg brought up a point on another thread, and I'm curious what cadets think of the process now.

I worked as a recruiting SGT when I was a company PLT SGT. Then had the opportunity to work as recruiting officer in the Trigon. Between the Commandant's staff and the ROTCs, I wasn't sure whose goals the cadets were trying to achieve if not just their own. The ROTCs definitely had their own bosses to answer to, and the Commandant's office appeared to be working with them to meet some aligned goals.

The ROTCs (at the time) have their own recruiting staff. The Commandant's staff does as well. The Corps units with the most man power willing to participate in phone call nights reaped a lot of contacts to recruit. For some units this was a self licking ice cream cone. They were so large that they had great economies of scale when it came to contacting cadets.

How they got big was a different story. Some had connections to their part of TX. Others had allure of being Jocks/contract outfit/historically old outfit.

In the end, I was a firm believer it was those who networked the best vs who made phone calls or had good 'stats' to show parents or potential cadets...that recruited the most fish. Sometimes it was being hooked up with a counselor of a big school...sometimes it was the local ol' CT liaison hooking up someone he knew with fresh names.

Over time, units changed in personality and strengths (both figuratively and in numbers). This changed their capability to recruit. Needless to say, the game changed as well.


------------
Retention...more on that later.

I'm not on the recruiting chain but, as a rising junior in the FTAB, I think I have a decent understanding of the recruiting process from the inside. Or at least as far as cadets are concerned (not sure about Commandant's staff or ROTC cadre).

From what I can tell, it is a decent system. Outfits get a list of possible recruits and it is our job to contact them. Major Units and Outfits set their own goals as far as number of prospects, number of visits, frequency of contact with prospects, etc. If you focus on recruiting and market your outfit as the best possible place for a college freshman to be, chances are more prospects will join your outfit. Some people think of this as showing your outfit's GPR compared to others, some think of showing intramural championships and others focus on more intangible things like saying they focus on leadership or other things. My outfit really hits profesionalism and personal responsibilty. At the end of the day, you are trying to convince an 17-18 year old high school senior that one group of people he/she has never met is any better than another group of people he/she has never met.


The one problem I have with the current system is that we are contacting people who would be a part of the Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2019. This seems a little ridiculous to me. Trying to explain to a parent why somebody from (as they see it) a military organization is contacting their 7th grade son or daughter is a little challenging. Seniors and Juniors are obvious to recruit, with sophomores it helps to give a little ino, and freshman maybe a "Hey, we're the Corps. Remember us and A&M when you look at college in a couple years." Any younger and I think you are wasting time and resources.

But that's just my take on it. I'm sure there are a plethora of opinions from current and former cadets.


Like I said, I'm not on an official recruiting chain, but I would be glad to provide info and current cadet opinions.




It's just another Corps trip boys, we'll march in behind the band.

Y'all have 7th graders on your list of people to call??

When we did phone push the guys we called were all seniors or at the youngest juniors.

I have yet to see anyone younger than a Junior in high school

[This message has been edited by B-2Cadet2012 (edited 6/24/2011 11:36p).]

That seems fishy. Military recruiters aren't allowed to call students until their junior year in high school. (even though the Marines go after them as sophomores)

quote:

---

Y'all have 7th graders on your list of people to call??

---

CGSC...aggiegator...I will get the skinny on this on Monday.

CGSC-Aggiegator, Here is the response I received from the head of the recruiting dept, COL Hawes. Bottomline, no 7th graders are being intientionally contacted.

As per COL Hawes---The system is designed to contact Juniors and Seniors so I guess there must be some kids who were input improperly. I'll check this out to make sure this isnt happening in the future.

The great thing about the system now is that the Corps Recruiting chain has the ability to assign each individual prospect to an individual cadet. This is all done in our Recruiting Database and the Cadet Contact System. The cadet can view all the info he needs from his computer, contact the prospect, and enter all the results directly into the DB. This allows the entire recruiting chain to see all the comments whenever they look at a prospect. Gone are the days of the sophomores being stuck in the call center contacting prospects. Now the recruiting chain can assign a prospect to a cadet based on hometown, major, gender and ethnicity (at least this is the goal). The Corps Recruiting chain can monitor the system to make sure prospects are being contacted and way more cadets are now directly involved in recruiting. By the end of the recruiting season we have almost 50,000 prospects in the DB for this incoming fish class. We've worked them hard and now have it down to about 1600 who have been accepted, are coming to A&M, and have some expressed some level of interest in the Corps. The cadets are contacting each prospect before their New Student Conference to make sure they show up for Corps Registration. We introduced this two years ago and attribute this change to some of our recent increases in recruiting.

That sounds like it has the potential to be a really squared away operation. I suspect that the outfits that actually have a squared away and motivated recruiting chain from zip to pisshead will see some real results.

When I was a sophomore a few years ago, we were essentially given a packet of names and information about the prospects, including breif notes about previous phone calls like when they're going to spend the night, how they enjoyed spend the night, how motivated they are, if they've applied/been accepted, etc. It wasn't particularly organized and there was always a lack of communication between cadets on who was recently called. Phone push was made "optional" a couple years later.

The much of the prospect lists are purchased if I recall correctly. And the biggest difference in large versus small outfits was the number of prospects you could get to spend the night or do JCAP with you. As long as you don't get drunk with a prospect and their parents find out, there is a good chance they'll join your outfit after spending the night.

I was on recruiting chain for three years and finally wound up as our major unit recruiting officer so I thought I would chime in. My time on the chain began right when we went to the purchased phone push list. The problem with that list is that it creates a quantity vs. quality program, i.e., it looks like recruiting is improving but the quality is still the same. For example, an outfit may look like they've contacted tons of prospects and have a fish class of 40, but the quality of those prospects is often suspect. It certainly allows for an easy "fishing net," but it doesn't do the job of filtering strong prospects who will stay and do well as a cadet.

That being said, the real problem with phone push and recruiting in general is that most high schoolers have never heard of the Corps. When I was little, almost everyone in Texas knew what the Corps was and why it existed. Now folks see us as just another ROTC with fancy uniforms. My belief is that more focus should be on advertising the Corps to guidance counselors, athletic directors, etc., and maybe even a commercial during football games. There is no reason why a high schooler interested in the academies should not be told to take a look at the Corps too. The same is true for kids like me that sailed through law school because of the skills I learned as a fish.

quote:

---

My belief is that more focus should be on advertising the Corps to guidance counselors, athletic directors, etc., and maybe even a commercial during football games.

---

This is where a partnership with the Dallas, Houston, and San Antonion Recruiting Battalions would aid in this. Recruiting (at least in the Army) units are required to provide ROTC referrals per USAAC (although the pending removal of USAAC as an organization may change that).

quote:

---

quantity vs. quality program

---

I've heard this thrown around since my fish year, during recruiting, and while working in the Trigon. Cadets for the most part can't filter and are not the greatest at measuring someone's 'potential' as a cadet or future leader.

If someone is good enough to get into A&M and are of decent physical strength, they have at least a 70% chance of making it through the Corps. The filter should be the fish year.

Sure there will be a varying degree of those who are substandard, but part of this challenge to upperclassmen is to train. If they fail past that, well, chalk it up to attrition.

Recruiting is a difficult business no matter if you are in the Corps, Army, Marines, or corporate America. One of the hardest things in any of those organizations is finding the quality through the quantity. However, they are not mutually exclusive.

The difference between Corps Recruiting and Military recruiting is that in the military, Drill Sergeants/Instructors can weed out some of those that can't make it, whereas in the Corps, units are punished for doing that in many cases.

Drill Sergeants dont have anything to do with recruiting, they are trainers so I dont see your analogy. Drill Sergeants dont weed out Soldiers, they recommend action to the Commander who makes decision (normally at the Bn level). Also, Basic Training Commanders would be fired if they had anywhere near the attrition of the average company in the Corps. Very few fish are kicked out of the Corps based on performance or any other measure, they all decide to quit the Corps on their own.

[This message has been edited by bigplay (edited 6/30/2011 6:22a).]

I am a deputy recruiting coordinator for Region 13, Austin and attended the Corps of Cadets recruitment training seminar Saturday July 9th.

Our focus is to recruit Juniors and Seniors into the Corps. Our mission is to spread the word throughout recruiting visits about the Corps and the benefits.

General Ramirez has a plan to grow the Corps, and that is spending money on renovation of existing dorms. What was good bull in the 80's regarding the quad is now a liability. Kids today have options that we didn't in regards to housing. There were no "resorts" with salt water osmosis, individual parking, pools, wifi, etc. Every dorm was similar and apartment complexes were average.

In the next year dorm 8 will be completely renovated as well as the study lounge adjoining it. In the fall of 2012, the study lounge will be 4 stories tall and attached to Dorm 8. It will be a study lounge, counseling area, etc.

I made the comment during the event that I feel detached from this generation of cadets. If you subtract 25 classes from my class of 87, that would be the class of 1962. That class could come back and tell me stories of their days on campus and I could relate. Dining hall slang, fish day, quadding, hazing, uniforms, good bull events, the Grove, etc were similar.

I had the opportunity to speak with cadets from the classes of 12, 13 and 14 and we had very little in common. The mess hall slang that we knew is not used in today's cadet corps. Stealing the CO's stuff, fish day, spirit banners, unique campusology, knowledge of campus landmarks, etc are foreign to today's cadets. I was shocked when the cadets I spoke with told me that they had never seen the WWI memorial!

Today's students have higher SAT/ACT scores, there is much more competition to be admitted to A&M and there is much more emphasis on grades. The motto when I was in school was "2.0 and go!" Not so today.

As we transition into the 21st century the quad and the Cadet Corps will undergo a transistion that should help keep the Corps as a prominent organization on campus.

Check out the Cambridge http://www.cambridgeatcollegestation.com/. It's even got a tanning bed! Probably costs 3x or more of what it costs cadets.

'87 - my oldest is class of '13 and I've been amazed at how much has remained the same.

I'm all for growing the Corps, but as far as recruiting Seniors into the Corps, that sounds a bit off to me. Putting a kid right into boots, after others have worked 3 hard years for them? Gen. Van A regularly pointed out how the Corps uses all 4 years in a leadership development process. I have a hard time seeing how a senior frog fits into that.

quote:

---

Our focus is to recruit Juniors and Seniors into the Corps

---

OlArmy, if I'm not mistaken, he's talking about HIGH SCHOOL juniors and seniors.

Yes, High School juniors and seniors.

quote:

---

Our focus is to recruit HIGH SCHOOL Juniors and Seniors into the Corps

---

FIFY

You used the term "frog" in your post 93, that is no longer acceptable. All cadets, including those who enter midterm, are called fish.

Ask your son what is cackle, bullneck, battery acid, rabbit, scabs, baby, and get back with us.

Actually, I did a spend the night with the corps last spring and they still have frogs. The girl I met told me the only thing worse than a fish is a frog (it was the spring and she had just frogged in.

Yeah, the term "frog" is still used, but a quarter of the cadets don't use it in the right context.

And I recently graduated a few years ago, and I only know a few of the words that ABatt posted. I think part of it has to do with the fact that Duncan no longer posts the menu. But more generally, there's just so much more going on today that upperclassmen just forget to pass on knowledge sometimes, and with the way the Corps is structured, one year is all it takes for a tradition or knowledge to be completely forgotten or pushed into irrelevance.

quote:

---

cackle, bullneck, battery acid, rabbit, scabs, baby

---

<I don't know>, beef, orange juice, cabbage, cereal, mustard(?)

quote:

---

cackle, bullneck, battery acid, rabbit, scabs, ?, baby

---

scrambled eggs, steak, grapefruit juice, salad, mustard

Memory is a bit weak after 35+ years.



1926 Longhorn

[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 7/12/2011 9:16a).]

Gen Ramirez and Col Hawes commented Saturday that the term "frog" is going away due to being a negative connotation.

scabs = cereal.

There was a senior cadet this past year who joined 18 in the spring semester of 10, walked final review after being a fish only for 1 semester, and then walked second pass with senior boots on.

quote:

---

Gen Ramirez and Col Hawes commented Saturday that the term "frog" is going away due to being a negative connotation

---

I love that...fish is OK, but frog is out.

do you remember the definition of a fish?

quote:

---

Sir: A fish is the lowest species of organic matter, subjacent to the most foul stench imaginable. He is more vile than the most horrendous excrement, and his actions are completely desultrate to the scheme of life itself. Yet, when compared to the highest honor graduate of t.u., his magnitude is overwhelming. Sir, not to be technological, sir, but I am a fish in the Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas, and DAMN PROUD OF IT SIR!

---

good job lobo, now work on your chow hall slang.

Glad you saw the irony there. Yes, I remember the definition of a fish, hence my statement. I was there when old Army was going to hell...the start of the blue ribbon panel.

Just my two cents, but BG Ramirez will be the best thing to happen to the Corps since Rudder. He realizes the change that needs to happen to keep the Corps relevant and competitive to other college alternatives.

quote:

---

OlArmy, if I'm not mistaken, he's talking about HIGH SCHOOL juniors and seniors.

---

Doh!! I'm really bringing pride to the Aggie name with that one!

As for chow hall slang - I asked olarmy13 and he said, yes, they use it regularly and knew the ones off your list I asked about. He did say that the vocabulary used is limited by what is served on the hot plates. IMO - chow hall slang started to die when Duncan went from family style to cafeteria style in the late '80's.

quote:

---

I was there when old Army was going to hell

---

I think every cadet since 1876 has said this.

quote:

---

IMO - chow hall slang started to die when Duncan went from family style to cafeteria style in the late '80's.

---

It was the spring of 1987 when Duncan was closed for renovations. We would have morning formation but no chow hall, then in the evening we would have formation and march to Sbisa for chow.

I agree 100% that when family style died, the need for chow hall terminology died as well, and that is unfortunate.

quote:

---

Sir: A fish is the lowest species of organic matter, subjacent to the most foul stench imaginable. He is more vile than the most horrendous excrement, and his actions are completely desultrate to the scheme of life itself. Yet, when compared to the highest honor graduate of t.u., his magnitude is overwhelming. Sir, not to be technological, sir, but I am a fish in the Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas, and DAMN PROUD OF IT SIR!

---

In Boozin' B, it was, "Sir, a fish is an insignificant little fart suspended in a supersaturated solution of horse****, cowp!ss and stud. He is so small, he is constantly being bombarded by particles of his own size. He is ten thousand times lower than the lowest whale turd in the lowest part of the ocean, yet he is ten thousand times higher than the highest honor graduate of t.u. In short, I am a Fightin' Texas Aggie fish and damn proud of it, sir!"

quote:

---

Gen Ramirez and Col Hawes commented Saturday that the term "frog" is going away due to being a negative connotation.

---

Not an entirely equal comparison, but they tried doing the same thing with the term "wag."